The Importance of Alphonso Davies

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, clamlinguine said:

Just because he's better at LB doesn't mean he's not a world class attacking mid. Ask the opposition, I'm sure they think he is. If you think they don't prepare for him like he's world class you'd be wrong. Again though....what is world class?

 

David was/is a better AM than Davies - that's just facts

[clamlinguine]

Just now, Floortom said:

There are a lot of definitions of world class - I usually use it to refer to someone as top 5 in the world at their position.

that being said, I don’t think there is one commonly accepted definition of world class that would fit Davies as an attacking mid.

I was kind of assuming the top 10. I'd say AD would have been in the top 10 most feared players at his position during the WC.

[football_world]

6 minutes ago, clamlinguine said:

Yes I did and he is. Maybe he would have scored more if he was playing for France. Just pointing out that world class doesn't mean equal to the best game of the #1 at that position.  Davies got fine reviews everywhere except for under the microscope of the local experts from what I've seen. 

But what is the definition of world class? The best at your position in the world? Top 10? Top 48?

I defined what I consider, is the minimum requirement of "world class" for me in my comment above:

Quote

PS. I think for "world class" players at their position, a decent club in Europe would probably play that player in that position, and Bayern Munich does not play Alphonso Davies as an attacking midfielder at the moment. Bayern Munich plays Alphonso Davies as a left back, where he is truly "world class" at left back.

If Bayern Munich doesn't play Alphonso Davies as an attacking midfielder consistently, I don't think one can say Alphonso Davies is "world class" as an attacking midfielder.

BTW, you can look at the top transfers by position here: https://www.sporcle.com/games/haseebabbasi789/most-expensive-football-transfers-by-position

You can see that left wing by position for top transfers, is much more expensive than left back.  The top transfer, according to that link for left wing, was 200 million Euro.  For left back, the top transfer, was 59 million Euro. This is important for Bayern Munich, because if Alphonso Davies was a "world class" attacking left midfield player, he would be more valuable to Bayern Munich.  Then Bayern Munich could buy a "world class" left back to fill in for Alphonso Davies. Acquiring a world class attacking left midfield player is much more expensive for Bayern Munich.  So if Bayern Munich really believed Alphonso Davies is also "world class" as an attacking left midfielder, they would play him there because he is much more valuable for them as an attacking left midfielder, and look for a left back on the transfer market.

[Ansem]

3 minutes ago, clamlinguine said:

I was kind of assuming the top 10. I'd say AD would have been in the top 10 most feared players at his position during the WC.

He got found out if you ask me... Doing this in CONCACAF and the world cup is completely different.

I hope Herdman takes note of this.

[clamlinguine]

19 minutes ago, football_world said:

I defined what I consider, is the minimum requirement of "world class" for me in my comment above:

If Bayern Munich doesn't play Alphonso Davies as an attacking midfielder consistently, I don't think one can say Alphonso Davies is "world class" as an attacking midfielder.

BTW, you can look at the top transfers by position here: https://www.sporcle.com/games/haseebabbasi789/most-expensive-football-transfers-by-position

You can see that left wing by position for top transfers, is much more expensive than left back.  The top transfer, according to that link for left wing, was 200 million Euro.  For left back, the top transfer, was 59 million Euro. This is important for Bayern Munich, because if Alphonso Davies was a "world class" attacking left midfield player, he would be more valuable to Bayern Munich.  Then Bayern Munich could buy a "world class" left back to fill in for Alphonso Davies. Acquiring a world class attacking left midfield player is much more expensive for Bayern Munich.  So if Bayern Munich really believed Alphonso Davies is also "world class" as an attacking left midfielder, they would play him there because he is much more valuable for them as an attacking left midfielder, and look for a left back on the transfer market.

That's a good argument., but not decisive of course. I think Bayern plays him at LB because they get a LB and an extra LW for the same buck. 

If AD insisted on playing LW most decent European clubs would welcome him with open arms. You don't believe that? AD pays LB instead of LW because he's the best LB in the world. All this imo of course.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

44 minutes ago, football_world said:

It is important for Bayern Munich, because if Alphonso Davies was a "world class" attacking left midfield player, he would be more valuable to Bayern Munich.  Then Bayern Munich could buy a "world class" left back to fill in for Alphonso Davies. Acquiring a world class attacking left midfield player is much more expensive for Bayern Munich.  So if Bayern Munich really believed Alphonso Davies is also "world class" as an attacking left midfielder, they would play him there because he is much more valuable for them as an attacking left midfielder, and look for a left back on the transfer market.

I think I agree with your point but that argument is flawed to me.

It assumes that a manager's first priority is the value of players, while he is actually paid, especially in Bayern's case, to field a side that wins games most of the time.

Davies playing there obviously works with their attacking play.  They have at least 4 other players that can play in attacking positions on the left. Why move him if you want to win games.

[Infernal]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/ClwXLtHNlem/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=

Really nice vid

[Kent]

On 12/4/2022 at 1:44 PM, football_world said:

You can see that left wing by position for top transfers, is much more expensive than left back.  The top transfer, according to that link for left wing, was 200 million Euro.  For left back, the top transfer, was 59 million Euro. This is important for Bayern Munich, because if Alphonso Davies was a "world class" attacking left midfield player, he would be more valuable to Bayern Munich.  Then Bayern Munich could buy a "world class" left back to fill in for Alphonso Davies. Acquiring a world class attacking left midfield player is much more expensive for Bayern Munich.  So if Bayern Munich really believed Alphonso Davies is also "world class" as an attacking left midfielder, they would play him there because he is much more valuable for them as an attacking left midfielder, and look for a left back on the transfer market.

I think you are essentially explaining why Davies doesn't typically play left back for Canada. A left back isn't as important to a team's success as a left winger. If it was, the transfer values would probably reflect that.

[Unnamed Trialist]

5 minutes ago, Kent said:

I think you are essentially explaining why Davies doesn't typically play left back for Canada. A left back isn't as important to a team's success as a left winger. If it was, the transfer values would probably reflect that.

This all has to be rethought, imo.

I have always argued he should play up higher so he would not be bound by defensive responsibilities, so we could anchor behind him and let him free. But I realise that is basically arguing he is too immature to defend if asked to also attack.

[kingvikingstad]

I can see the reasoning behind playing Davies as a winger, and the assumptions behind it. It's natural to want Davies to play up the field because he has gamebreaking talent. At any moment, he can wiggle lose and score, or pull additional defenders to him that gives everyone else more space.

The latter is becoming very theoretical though, because we didn't really see it throughout the WC. Unless Phonzie improves his offensive awareness, especially against good competition, I'm not sure using him in an attacking position is where he's most effective. He often slows down our attack, misses the overlap, or gives the ball away dribbling into a crowd. 

All that said, it's also going to depend on our other attacking/defending options. With Johnston, Laryea, and Adekugbe as potential fullbacks, maybe playing higher up the field will continue to make the most sense. If Koleosho turns into a stud and we have him and Tajon on the wings, maybe it makes sense to have Davies provide some cover at the back and support the attack. 

This isn't a decision that can be made in a vacuum and will require constant evaluating because hes too valuable to our overall ceiling to get his positioning wrong. Oh, and one thing I didn't mention that may put a wrench in things - what does Phonzie want, and should it matter?

Edited December 7, 2022 by kingvikingstad

[Unnamed Trialist]

Neuer is out with a season-ending injury: skiing. 

https://theathletic.com/3988116/2022/12/10/manuel-neuer-injury-bayern-munich/

I have no idea how a club can let a player do a risk sport, many prohibit their guys from certain activities precisely for this reason. He says he was ski touring, does that mean cross country?

In any case, he was a mess this WC, he was not good, and he has not been at all successful for Germany for a long time. While he seems competent at Bayern, he has frequent brain-farts, and relies on the club outscoring opposition in a league that is the least competitive in of the big 4. 

I was thinking with Germany going out that Bayern, while not happy, might be at least  selfishly pleased they can get their guys back, healthy and rested. It'll be interesting to see how the team adjusts after the WC disappointment.

As for the NT, maybe it is time to give Ter Stegen the starting job. As a Barça fan, I am a bit tired of him, I don't think he has a winning character and considering how long he's been at the club, he's not a leader at all. But it could still be interesting to see him for the German NT, because I think he has virtues that Neuer lacks.

Edited December 10, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[maccaliam]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

 

I have no idea how a club can let a player do a risk sport, many prohibit their guys from certain activities precisely for this reason. He says he was ski touring, does that mean cross country?

It would be amazing if Bayern don’t have some kind of risky activity clause in their contracts. I’ve read many clubs have activities such as riding a motorcycle, skiing , etc banned to prevent these kinds of issues. If I recall correctly, a few years back, Carlo Cudicini (a Tottenham keeer) broke both arms on a motorcycle and he was fined quite heavily by the club because he broke the clause in his contract. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

52 minutes ago, maccaliam said:

It would be amazing if Bayern don’t have some kind of risky activity clause in their contracts. I’ve read many clubs have activities such as riding a motorcycle, skiing , etc banned to prevent these kinds of issues. If I recall correctly, a few years back, Carlo Cudicini (a Tottenham keeer) broke both arms on a motorcycle and he was fined quite heavily by the club because he broke the clause in his contract. 

Now that Pique is retired he's yapping about all the things he did that he wasn't supposed to, at Manchester United or when on loan at Zaragoza too, because the contract said you couldn't. Sneaking out and doing stuff anyways, motorcycle riding, partying, other stuff I forget now.

I am sure plenty of younger guys do this, but on the sly.

[maccaliam]

14 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Now that Pique is retired he's yapping about all the things he did that he wasn't supposed to, at Manchester United or when on loan at Zaragoza too, because the contract said you couldn't. Sneaking out and doing stuff anyways, motorcycle riding, partying, other stuff I forget now.

I am sure plenty of younger guys do this, but on the sly.

I would be more surprised if most young players didn’t do some of these kinds of things on the sly. 

[jonovision]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Neuer is out with a season-ending injury: skiing. 

https://theathletic.com/3988116/2022/12/10/manuel-neuer-injury-bayern-munich/

I have no idea how a club can let a player do a risk sport, many prohibit their guys from certain activities precisely for this reason. He says he was ski touring, does that mean cross country?

Ski touring usually refers to backcountry alpine stuff. Ski up, ski down, away from the resorts. I'm curious which specific activities some contracts might restrict. Hard to think of anything more dangerous than buying a fast car and driving it fast, which many of these players do.

[An Observer]

On 12/10/2022 at 7:58 PM, Unnamed Trialist said:

Neuer is out with a season-ending injury: skiing. 

https://theathletic.com/3988116/2022/12/10/manuel-neuer-injury-bayern-munich/

I have no idea how a club can let a player do a risk sport, many prohibit their guys from certain activities precisely for this reason. He says he was ski touring, does that mean cross country?

In any case, he was a mess this WC, he was not good, and he has not been at all successful for Germany for a long time. While he seems competent at Bayern, he has frequent brain-farts, and relies on the club outscoring opposition in a league that is the least competitive in of the big 4. 

I was thinking with Germany going out that Bayern, while not happy, might be at least  selfishly pleased they can get their guys back, healthy and rested. It'll be interesting to see how the team adjusts after the WC disappointment.

As for the NT, maybe it is time to give Ter Stegen the starting job. As a Barça fan, I am a bit tired of him, I don't think he has a winning character and considering how long he's been at the club, he's not a leader at all. But it could still be interesting to see him for the German NT, because I think he has virtues that Neuer lacks.

I personally knew someone in the NHL back in the day who seriously injured himself on a quad bike and was out for some time and the story told to the team was he slipped on the ice on his driveway cleaning the snow off his car. 😀

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, An Observer said:

I personally knew someone in the NHL back in the day who seriously injured himself on a quad bike and was out for some time and the story told to the team was he slipped on the ice on his driveway cleaning the snow off his car. 😀

Classic, love this stuff.

We have a few famous dumb goalkeeper injuries in Spanish soccer, but not doing anything wrong. Carles Busquets, Sergio's father, who was a goalkeeper, was at home ironing and famously caught the thing from falling with his quick reflexes, burning his hands. Then there is the famous Cañizares incident where he misses the 2002 World Cup because he tries to stop a flask of cologne from falling in the shower, with his feet, and it lacerates a tendon in his toe. 

[maccaliam]

9 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Classic, love this stuff.

We have a few famous dumb goalkeeper injuries in Spanish soccer, but not doing anything wrong. Carles Busquets, Sergio's father, who was a goalkeeper, was at home ironing and famously caught the thing from falling with his quick reflexes, burning his hands. Then there is the famous Cañizares incident where he misses the 2002 World Cup because he tries to stop a flask of cologne from falling in the shower, with his feet, and it lacerates a tendon in his toe. 

Amazing. The Cañizares incident was a big one I remember as it was so unfortunate. 

Possibly not World Cup related but didn’t a South American footballer (I feel it may have been Medel or Benega) get injured in Spain a while back trying to stop his own car rolling down a hill? I believe he parked the car improperly, and he ended up pinned between two cars? 

[Shway]

On 12/10/2022 at 10:00 AM, maccaliam said:

I would be more surprised if most young players didn’t do some of these kinds of things on the sly. 

We lost probably a prospect who I think would be active today in Nicholas Lindsay… TFC second home grown signing.

 Kid had a lot of talent but tore his acl(?) on a snow mobile, and couldn’t return to his former self.

[maccaliam]

1 hour ago, Shway said:

We lost probably a prospect who I think would be active today in Nicholas Lindsay… TFC second home grown signing.

 Kid had a lot of talent but tore his acl(?) on a snow mobile, and couldn’t return to his former self.

Yeah that is very sad. 

[InglewoodJack]

Fernando Tatis Jr., one of the best young players in baseball signed a 14-year $330M contract last year, and before the first game of his new deal, got into a motorcycle accident, and missed all of this season, despite having a clause prohibiting this in his contract, especially since he had already been in accidents before.

San Diego ultimately did not try and recoup any damages as a result because he’s the future of their franchise and still has 13 more years (!!) on his deal.

I would guess that either Bayern lets players ski, I mean they are a Bavarian club, or that Neuer has so much pull at the club that they can’t do much. He did say he was “ski touring” which is a relatively low risk sport- perhaps his contract only prohibits him from doing double black diamond routes.

Edited December 12, 2022 by InglewoodJack

[costarg]

Was also an issue with Jacques VIlleneuve at Williams back in the day.  He was an avid risk taker (sky diving, skiing, etc...) He said it was one of the reasons he left a big team, not enough freedom speech and activity wise.

[Kent]

On 12/11/2022 at 7:45 PM, maccaliam said:

Amazing. The Cañizares incident was a big one I remember as it was so unfortunate. 

Possibly not World Cup related but didn’t a South American footballer (I feel it may have been Medel or Benega) get injured in Spain a while back trying to stop his own car rolling down a hill? I believe he parked the car improperly, and he ended up pinned between two cars? 

I don't know about a footballer, but Anton Yelchin, who was in the 2009 Star Trek movie died that way.

As for getting injured doing something you shouldn't, former NFL quarterback Brian Griese got injured and it was reported he tripped on his dog. That is one that always seemed suspicious.

[Unnamed Trialist]

On 12/12/2022 at 1:45 AM, maccaliam said:

Possibly not World Cup related but didn’t a South American footballer (I feel it may have been Medel or Benega) get injured in Spain a while back trying to stop his own car rolling down a hill? I believe he parked the car improperly, and he ended up pinned between two cars? 

An elderly family member of mine died that way in the 1960s, on my grandparents' driveway on Granville Street. Tried to stop the car from rolling into the street and got crushed against another car parked beside. 

There was freak accident that happened to pro cyclist Xavi Tondo ten years ago, going out to train in the Sierra Nevada, he had a heavy automatic garage door and it closed on him against his car. 

We started talking about dumb injuries and ended up doing tragic ones. I was actually skiing in the Pyrenees when the Schumacher accident happened, that same weekend, not only convinced us to always wear helmets, but changed everyone's idea about how to wear a GoPro. Still feel the tragedy of that.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[PegCityCam]

For everyone hoping Phonzy will ever be played as a leftback Canada...

 

We've also seen Naglesman playing Davies further up the field in the last few months with some success. I believe we'll continue to see his role with Bayern develop and his offensive talents unlocked.

Edited December 17, 2022 by PegCityCam