Jonathan David

[narduch]

8 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Very good post but I must have misunderstood, the Monaco Grand Prix and the Tour de France are not "regional curiosities". They are both massive global events, but I'm sure you know that. 

Just asking for some better examples. Maybe darts at Alexandra Palace.

The Tour de France and even Monaco are not elite events for fans either, don't be fooled by the ones sitting on those boats.

Jai alai?

[Lansdude]

5 minutes ago, narduch said:

Jai alai?

Jai Courtney is an Australian actor of regional interest who failed to interest global audiences

[narduch]

Just now, Lansdude said:

Jai Courtney is an Australian actor of regional interest who failed to interest global audiences

I'm thinking of this weird sport that was once popular in Basque, Spain and Florida and Connecticut. 

 

[InglewoodJack]

42 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Very good post but I must have misunderstood, the Monaco Grand Prix and the Tour de France are not "regional curiosities". They are both massive global events, but I'm sure you know that. 

Just asking for some better examples. Maybe darts at Alexandra Palace.

The Tour de France and even Monaco are not elite events for fans either, don't be fooled by the ones sitting on those boats.

What I meant by regional curiosities is that these events are events mostly for rich people to travel to to get noticed, to make it a part of a larger vacation, and then they go home and forget about what they've seen. I know cycling has an organic fan base, so perhaps that's not the best example, but Monaco, Kentucky Derby, so on, these are all events whose biggest draw is rich people getting noticed being rich. And that's what I see the Saudi league being. I can't imagine a sports commentary show fiercely debating the best club in KSA or what such and such player needs to do to win player of the year or receive a big transfer or whatever. The point of the games is the games themselves, not the score or the outcome or how it affects the table. Games will be part of rich people vacations, after the game these people will continue on their trip, then return home and go back to their favourite club anyways.

[narduch]

Nobody is going to travel to Saudi Arabia to watch that league.

No matter how many stars they add.

[InglewoodJack]

52 minutes ago, narduch said:

Jai alai?

Yeah, exactly. I think Pickleball is sorta becoming the same thing recently?

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

What I meant by regional curiosities is that these events are events mostly for rich people to travel to to get noticed, to make it a part of a larger vacation, and then they go home and forget about what they've seen. I know cycling has an organic fan base, so perhaps that's not the best example, but Monaco, Kentucky Derby, so on, these are all events whose biggest draw is rich people getting noticed being rich. And that's what I see the Saudi league being. I can't imagine a sports commentary show fiercely debating the best club in KSA or what such and such player needs to do to win player of the year or receive a big transfer or whatever. The point of the games is the games themselves, not the score or the outcome or how it affects the table. Games will be part of rich people vacations, after the game these people will continue on their trip, then return home and go back to their favourite club anyways.

 I get your explanation, and I totally agree that the Saudi league has no sustainability. They are really not interested in the game, they are not allowed to even act like fans because the government would be afraid of an authentic supporters group (they are all fabricated, same in the Qatar league). The women don't go so you lose a mass part of the potential. MLS has far more upside than Saudi Arabia. Just remember fan behaviout in Qatar, the elites bought up the best seats for key matches and then did not go; or did not come out after half time until m. 55. Really poor.

What they really should do is a Gulf States Super League, but I imagine the typical corruption that goes with your national federations would impede that as a logical business decision.

Just to go with this on The Tour or any other great cycling race, there are stages with 200,000 people along the route, thousands camping overnight and waiting a full day on a mountain top, and those are your core cycling fans. In all the big tours in Spain, France and Italy, in the one-day classics, the week-long classics. Those great races on cobbles in Belgium. I've watched races in Barcelona, they do the final day of the Tour of Catalonia up on Montjuic which you know, ending in a multi-lap hill criterium, and thousands of fans are out. You see flags from everywhere, Colombians, Dutch, I've seen Lithuanian flags. I've gone to cheer on Michael Woods (and there was a Québec rider whose name I forget). Cycling support is very middle class and not at all elite, there is now way to really be elite and watch road race cycling. 

As for Formula 1, fans travel across the globe to watch races, but in Europe there are fans that will go to many or even every race. Yes, you need money, similar to if you were to go to away Champions League games regularly. But it is also how people spend their money. Now that Alonso is finally having another good season with his "Canadian" car, thousands from his region, Asturias, go to races in Europe, they are nuts. Monaco, I realize, looks elite but it really is not that much more than other F1 races, not much more so than Barcelona or Monza, the pricing is tiered, there are those in the high-end boxes, it is not cheap but thousands go en masse.

I am more a cycling fan than motor racing, though one thing I do recommend, if anyone gets a chance, is to watch World Rally Car racing, on road or dirt. Apart from being a few metres from a road, there is no better way to see the quality of those drivers, it is outrageous, they are clearly the best. Another event that draws thousands.

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, narduch said:

I'm thinking of this weird sport that was once popular in Basque, Spain and Florida and Connecticut. 

 

Jai Alai as the poster said, but hey: they call it Pelota Vasca, and it is quite popular still. With the wicker stick or using your hand, brutal. All over the Basque Country and Navarre they are outdoor courts, like even along the long wall of local churces; and indoor, and in most parts of Spain they play as well. mostly using the hand, not the wicker. Jai Alai, by the way, is Euskera (Basque) for "happy party" or something like that.

But in the Basque Country they do the major tournaments indoor, and what is incredibly cool is that they bet in situ on every point. Guys walk through the crowds between points, or in front, writing down bets by hand; the breaks can be long because points are arduous and exhausting, and they throw these cups or tennis balls with a cut in them to fans in seated (like peanuts at baseball games), and fans put their bets inside, the money, and throw them back. It is rather complex and quite fascinating.

[masster]

[masster]

That is the front page of today's Tuttosport, which is the national sports daily based out of Torino.

Headline reads "Weah brings David"

Tuttosport isn't known for being very reliable, but Juve does need to sell for financial reasons, and David would seem like a logical replacement for Vlahovic if he is sold. So it does it make sense.

[masster]

Also makes the front page of the Corriere dello Sport (below the fold), which is the national sports daily based out of Rome.

[red card]

3 hours ago, narduch said:

Nobody is going to travel to Saudi Arabia to watch that league.

No matter how many stars they add.

It could be a side attraction for Christians who are going. 

NYT: Christians of many stripes — including Baptists, Mennonites and others who call themselves “children of God” — were among the first people to use the new Saudi tourist visas. Since then, they have grown steadily in numbers, drawn by word of mouth and viral YouTube videos arguing that Saudi Arabia, not Egypt, is the site of Mount Sinai, the peak where Jewish and Christian Scriptures describe God revealing the Ten Commandments.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/24/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-christian-tourists.html?searchResultPosition=1

[TGAA_Star]

10 hours ago, masster said:

Also makes the front page of the Corriere dello Sport (below the fold), which is the national sports daily based out of Rome.

Now David to Serie A would be huge especially if he were to go to Juventus or if he were to go to Napoli or Inter Milan

[InglewoodJack]

Scored 4 goals in a friendly against Cercle Brugge this morning 

[dyslexic nam]

7 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Scored 4 goals in a friendly against Cercle Brugge this morning 

Just saw that.  It may have been an imbalanced game (and just pre season) but banging in 4 during open play seems at least noteworthy for any team keeping an eye on him.  

[InglewoodJack]

2 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

Just saw that.  It may have been an imbalanced game (and just pre season) but banging in 4 during open play seems at least noteworthy for any team keeping an eye on him.  

I saw one of the goals and the other team looked they were either terrible or disengaged- they looked like one of those token preseason friendly amateur side, I’m not sure if they played their regulars. I think he got at least one assist too. 

[SoccMan]

17 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

 I get your explanation, and I totally agree that the Saudi league has no sustainability. They are really not interested in the game, they are not allowed to even act like fans because the government would be afraid of an authentic supporters group (they are all fabricated, same in the Qatar league). The women don't go so you lose a mass part of the potential. MLS has far more upside than Saudi Arabia. Just remember fan behaviout in Qatar, the elites bought up the best seats for key matches and then did not go; or did not come out after half time until m. 55. Really poor.

What they really should do is a Gulf States Super League, but I imagine the typical corruption that goes with your national federations would impede that as a logical business decision.

Just to go with this on The Tour or any other great cycling race, there are stages with 200,000 people along the route, thousands camping overnight and waiting a full day on a mountain top, and those are your core cycling fans. In all the big tours in Spain, France and Italy, in the one-day classics, the week-long classics. Those great races on cobbles in Belgium. I've watched races in Barcelona, they do the final day of the Tour of Catalonia up on Montjuic which you know, ending in a multi-lap hill criterium, and thousands of fans are out. You see flags from everywhere, Colombians, Dutch, I've seen Lithuanian flags. I've gone to cheer on Michael Woods (and there was a Québec rider whose name I forget). Cycling support is very middle class and not at all elite, there is now way to really be elite and watch road race cycling. 

As for Formula 1, fans travel across the globe to watch races, but in Europe there are fans that will go to many or even every race. Yes, you need money, similar to if you were to go to away Champions League games regularly. But it is also how people spend their money. Now that Alonso is finally having another good season with his "Canadian" car, thousands from his region, Asturias, go to races in Europe, they are nuts. Monaco, I realize, looks elite but it really is not that much more than other F1 races, not much more so than Barcelona or Monza, the pricing is tiered, there are those in the high-end boxes, it is not cheap but thousands go en masse.

I am more a cycling fan than motor racing, though one thing I do recommend, if anyone gets a chance, is to watch World Rally Car racing, on road or dirt. Apart from being a few metres from a road, there is no better way to see the quality of those drivers, it is outrageous, they are clearly the best. Another event that draws thousands.

 

The Chinese Super League brought in all sorts of stars and paid them big money and now the majority have left . It looks like now the Chinese league is actually trying to develop from the ground up rather than just buy every super star available, they learned the hard way in the end . This Saudi thing looks to me has nothing really to do with growing the game unfortunately , but I guess we will see in the end .

[Unnamed Trialist]

14 minutes ago, SoccMan said:

The Chinese Super League brought in all sorts of stars and paid them big money and now the majority have left . It looks like now the Chinese league is actually trying to develop from the ground up rather than just buy every super star available, they learned the hard way in the end . This Saudi thing looks to me has nothing really to do with growing the game unfortunately , but I guess we will see in the end .

To be fair, major players go to the Saudi league to make money, often late in their careers. They don't seem to care too much about being there or that competition. It was exactly the same in China and it is pretty well the same in MLS.

If you sacrifice millions so your kids can learn English for a few years or your wife can be more comfortable driving around shopping, you are a nice guy.

[PegCityCam]

Does anyone else feel like these are the types of ruthlessly dominant performances JD needs - friendly or no - to really cement his current asking price of 60mil and get interested clubs off the fence? I can't imagine he's happy with the seeming lack of attention, but I also don't think it's necessarily a bad thing...maybe it's just the thing to nudge JD towards what I believe will be his final form...one that will include a level of ruthlessness which simply can't be ignored. 

Edited July 22, 2023 by PegCityCam

[jhoops__]

Striker market still hasn’t started yet.   Frustrating for everyone no doubt…

[costarg]

11 hours ago, SoccMan said:

The Chinese Super League brought in all sorts of stars and paid them big money and now the majority have left . It looks like now the Chinese league is actually trying to develop from the ground up rather than just buy every super star available, they learned the hard way in the end . This Saudi thing looks to me has nothing really to do with growing the game unfortunately , but I guess we will see in the end .

This is exactly it.  China wanted to be relevant in global soccer, Saudi is treating this like entertainment or a new toy.

[The Real Marc]

The Saudis are no more interested in developing soccer capacity than they were interested in developing golfers.

[jhoops__]

 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

Minor striker movement: Raul Jimenez to Fulham to replace Saudi-bound Mitrovic.

So probably no Fulham for David.

 

Couple other notes on that.

A real shame for CONCACAF over all that Jimenez has not really come back from that head injury. Mexico have missed him.

Also shows Wolves are dumping big salaries.  Real chance in the near future for Corbeanu if he can continue to play and make strides in Switzerland.

 

[Kadenge]

53 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Minor striker movement: Raul Jimenez to Fulham to replace Saudi-bound Mitrovic.

So probably no Fulham for David.

 

Couple other notes on that.

A real shame for CONCACAF over all that Jimenez has not really come back from that head injury. Mexico have missed him.

Also shows Wolves are dumping big salaries.  Real chance in the near future for Corbeanu if he can continue to play and make strides in Switzerland.

 

A bit of a head scratcher by Fulham. Jimenez is unlikely to replace the goal production of Mitrovic.