Jonathan David

[jhoops__]

https://www.soccernews.com/newcastle-united-want-to-sign-lille-striker-jonathan-david/355952/

[jhoops__]

I could see Newcastle signing David to play up top with Isak.  They’d look to offload Wilson I’m guessing.

[nolando]

26 minutes ago, jhoops__ said:

I could see Newcastle signing David to play up top with Isak.  They’d look to offload Wilson I’m guessing.

Isak and David up top would be 🔥 

[jhoops__]

If ManU get Hojlund I could see them making a play for Wilson to start as a 9 as Hojlund gets his feet wet…I’m spitballing here but I truly think David only has eyes for the Prem.

[maccaliam]

I don’t watch a lot of Newcastle, but I feel like David would be a good option to play with both Isak and Wilson.
Maybe I’m mistaken, but I believe Wilson is a more traditional striker so David could play off of him as a forward/second striker. With Isak, David could alternate playing playing as the leading striker and forward/second striker. 

[maccaliam]

Also, I’ve heard Newcastle are looking into selling ASM which would open up more opportunities for other attackers/wide forwards such as David. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

29 minutes ago, maccaliam said:

Also, I’ve heard Newcastle are looking into selling ASM which would open up more opportunities for other attackers/wide forwards such as David. 

Howe quote on their budget:

 "Players are expensive these days. We’re working within FFP guidelines, which is very difficult for us. We might need to be creative, but we’re trying to look at every avenue we can to make the club stronger."

He could be posturing but the players I have seen them linked with are true wide attackers, Barnes, Chiesa, Kvaratskhelia etc. The price of some of them even with a Saint-Maximin sale does not leave much more in a reasonable budget.  They don't have any Champions League revenue yet. 

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Bigandy]

32 minutes ago, maccaliam said:

Also, I’ve heard Newcastle are looking into selling ASM which would open up more opportunities for other attackers/wide forwards such as David. 

I would argue the exact opposite. 

Working within FFP as @WestHamCanadianinOxfordposted will put some restrictions on newcastle. Howe typically plays with 1 striker but has put Isak out wide last season and the odd 2 man strike partnership up front. Sure, they could use a 3rd top striker for depth but the weakest position in the squad is arguably wingers. Losing ASM whos the highest quality winger (even if he doesnt fit the style) weakens the winger pool even more. If you're newcastle, surely you say that you need a winger before a striker. Then you need a top RCB, likely a LB. Once those 3 are signed, you can look for more depth pieces. 

40-90 mil Winger - Kvaratskhelia 
30 mil LB - Tierney quality player
40-60 mil CB - Disasi quality? 
depth Cam - 15 mil ? 
depth RB - 15 mil livramanto 
Depth winger- 20 mil barnes 
depth striker - 40 mil David 

Its not impossible that David goes to Newcastle, but theres alot of other dominoes that will likely fall first before Newcastle makes a move for a striker. 

I do love the idea of a 4-4-1-1 with bruno and tonali feeding david and isak. 

[Obinna]

I watched Newcastle and Isak exactly once last season. It was the victory over Wolves toward season's end. I am far from an expert on the matter, but to me it seemed like Isak was dropping into the same pockets that David would. I know there is debate whether David and Larin are good playing together, well Isak and David would seem like the same situation.

If David is competing with Isak for the same spot, that concerns me. David needs to go somewhere and play regularly. The Premier League is a big jump and the fee to get him will be big as well, so he needs a situation that will give him time to adapt. I am not convinced David is going to outcompete Isak on day one, nor am I convinced they will form a good partnership as they seem similar to me. Isak is tall and lanky in stature, but his playing style struck me as being very similar to David (albeit it was a single game I watched).

[sebdeserio]

Lille just signed Hakon Haraldsson an Icelandic striker who was at Copenhagen for 17 million euros. Seems to profile very similarly to David which could be a good sign that things are in the works behind the scenes.

[jhoops__]

7 minutes ago, sebdeserio said:

Lille just signed Hakon Haraldsson an Icelandic striker who was at Copenhagen for 17 million euros. Seems to profile very similarly to David which could be a good sign that things are in the works behind the scenes.

Not only that but Lille are on track to break a recent transfer purchase record.   They’ve already spent 25m and have apparently secured 2 other players for between 16-20m.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, Obinna said:

I watched Newcastle and Isak exactly once last season. It was the victory over Wolves toward season's end. I am far from an expert on the matter, but to me it seemed like Isak was dropping into the same pockets that David would. I know there is debate whether David and Larin are good playing together, well Isak and David would seem like the same situation.

If David is competing with Isak for the same spot, that concerns me. David needs to go somewhere and play regularly. The Premier League is a big jump and the fee to get him will be big as well, so he needs a situation that will give him time to adapt. I am not convinced David is going to outcompete Isak on day one, nor am I convinced they will form a good partnership as they seem similar to me. Isak is tall and lanky in stature, but his playing style struck me as being very similar to David (albeit it was a single game I watched).

I watched Isak many games at Real Sociedad, he was there three years I think, and being young he was mostly promising. Had electric moments, could grab goals, as you say was lanky and lithe, though maybe more quick in bursts than fast.  His strike rate was similar to what it is now, slightly lower in fact. Not much of a baller either. I was personally shocked Newcastle spent that much on him, for me they overpaid, but it has to do with him being at that club, which produces quality players consistently (Griezmann), and the level of competition. La Real was not hurt by losing him, still has the money in fact, and even did better in the table this season without him (they've been in Europe 4 years straight now but made Champions this last, coming 4th).

David at Lille was similar, and could be comparable, but shined and has shined against lesser opponents. So you will always have this doubt, can David take the step up. For Isak to go to Newcastle, well in fact it was not a step up at all, not in the big picture.

 

[SirBobsaget]

4 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I watched Isak many games at Real Sociedad, he was there three years I think, and being young he was mostly promising. Had electric moments, could grab goals, as you say was lanky and lithe, though maybe more quick in bursts than fast.  His strike rate was similar to what it is now, slightly lower in fact. Not much of a baller either. I was personally shocked Newcastle spent that much on him, for me they overpaid, but it has to do with him being at that club, which produces quality players consistently (Griezmann), and the level of competition. La Real was not hurt by losing him, still has the money in fact, and even did better in the table this season without him (they've been in Europe 4 years straight now but made Champions this last, coming 4th).

David at Lille was similar, and could be comparable, but shined and has shined against lesser opponents. So you will always have this doubt, can David take the step up. For Isak to go to Newcastle, well in fact it was not a step up at all, not in the big picture.

 

Isak scored 10 EPL goal in only 22 games. He subbed in a lot of those games so thats really impressive. This transfer got Newcastle a Champ league spot. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

Just now, SirBobsaget said:

Isak scored 10 EPL goal in only 22 games. He subbed in a lot of those games so thats really impressive. This transfer got Newcastle a Champ league spot. 

Because it's easier to score in EPL than La Liga. Isak's rate in England is higher than in Spain. I mean, Haaland, he poured them in in the league but didn't have a really big game in Champions and with Norway is just ordinary.

This makes Messi's and Ronaldo's achievements all the more impressive.

[Obinna]

29 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Because it's easier to score in EPL than La Liga. Isak's rate in England is higher than in Spain. I mean, Haaland, he poured them in in the league but didn't have a really big game in Champions and with Norway is just ordinary.

This makes Messi's and Ronaldo's achievements all the more impressive.

This post feels like bait. Regardless, I just gotta say that Haaland's goal record with Norway is anything but ordinary. He's basically at like a goal per game. It's a far better ratio than David (and I am a big David fan). Something like 21 in 23, but don't quote me on that.

[GasPed]

28 minutes ago, Obinna said:

This post feels like bait. Regardless, I just gotta say that Haaland's goal record with Norway is anything but ordinary. He's basically at like a goal per game. It's a far better ratio than David (and I am a big David fan). Something like 21 in 23, but don't quote me on that.

Think it's 24 in 25.  I feel like that's better than ordinary too.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

 I mean, Haaland, he poured them in in the league but didn't have a really big game in Champions and with Norway is just ordinary.

This makes Messi's and Ronaldo's achievements all the more impressive.

Ha. Sorry mate, you are exposing one of your La Liga blind spots again. 

Haaland's strike rate is better in the Champions League (over 4 years) than his one year in the Premier League.  35 goals in 30 games as opposed to 35 goals in 36 games.

No big games there?

He just scored 5  - 5 - against Leipzig last season. (Equaling Messi's record game against Leverkusen.)

He has scored a brace in all 3 games he faced Sevilla. 

He has scored multiple goals against Napoli, PSG, and Bayern in his short Champions League career, to name some other better sides he faced.

 

He is still young and isn't a legend like Messi and Ronaldo yet.  But if we want compare the closest things we have to apples to apples - Champions League strike rate - he comes off pretty well so far.

As you see above, he has scored well over a goal a game - 1.19 in fact.

Messi - 129 in 163 = 0.79

Ronaldo - 140 in 183 = 0.77

(Both have better strike rates in La Liga)

You could argue that he was playing on a worse team than most of Messi and Ronaldo's his first 3 years. But then you could also say they sometimes didn't play as pure strikers.

Overall, not a fair comparison as he is so early in his career and has not done what they have but, remember, you did try to make it.

Edited July 18, 2023 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Bertuzzi44]

Haaland vs Zlatan I think is a better comparison, considering style and position, etc.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

6 minutes ago, Bertuzzi44 said:

Haaland vs Zlatan I think is a better comparison, considering style and position, etc.

Zlatan's record in the Champions League is actually very modest.  Again his limited La Liga strike rate is better.

[InglewoodJack]

Bamba to Celta Viga and Jose Fonte to Braga. Lille is stripping their roster

[Unnamed Trialist]

Just now, InglewoodJack said:

Bamba to Celta Viga and Jose Fonte to Braga. Lille is stripping their roster

Bamba will be interesting in LaLiga, he'll mature even faster. Though he wasn't as infuriating this last season under Fonseca.

Fonte is ageing and is probably on his last contract, but I think he's still solid.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Ha. Sorry mate, you are exposing one of your La Liga blind spots again. 

Haaland's strike rate is better in the Champions League (over 4 years) than his one year in the Premier League.  35 goals in 30 games as opposed to 35 goals in 36 games.

No big games there?

He just scored 5  - 5 - against Leipzig last season. (Equaling Messi's record game against Leverkusen.)

He has scored a brace in all 3 games he faced Sevilla. 

He has scored multiple goals against Napoli, PSG, and Bayern in his short Champions League career, to name some other better sides he faced.

 

He is still young and isn't a legend like Messi and Ronaldo yet.  But if we want compare the closest things we have to apples to apples - Champions League strike rate - he comes off pretty well so far.

As you see above, he has scored well over a goal a game - 1.19 in fact.

Messi - 129 in 163 = 0.79

Ronaldo - 140 in 183 = 0.77

(Both have better strike rates in La Liga)

You could argue that he was playing on a worse team than most of Messi and Ronaldo's his first 3 years. But then you could also say they sometimes didn't play as pure strikers.

Overall, not a fair comparison as he is so early in his career and has not done what they have but, remember, you did try to make it.

Better numbers than I realized. I wonder if he'll sustain them.

But what about Isak, do you agree his price was excessive? If he went for 70 you'd think David would be worth 50.

[InglewoodJack]

2 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Bamba will be interesting in LaLiga, he'll mature even faster. Though he wasn't as infuriating this last season under Fonseca.

Fonte is ageing and is probably on his last contract, but I think he's still solid.

Yeah, I thought the same for Fonte. Braga isn’t a bad team to ride off into the sunset with. Better chance to play in Europe with them than Lille in all likelihood (or at least in better competitions)

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Better numbers than I realized. I wonder if he'll sustain them.

But what about Isak, do you agree his price was excessive? If he went for 70 you'd think David would be worth 50.

£63 mill when the average Champions League revenue for an English team is well over £90 mill. Seems worth it to me.

Partially kidding, but he was very instrumental to getting them there for the first time in 20 years. And getting the best ever out of Wilson.

So it was a somewhat calculated gamble to over pay his market value but they apparently knew what they wanted combined with Sociedad having no glaring reason to sell. 

David wants to leave, is in the last couple years of his contract and Lille are looking to move people on. So it will be lower unless a bidding war/desperation happens.

Edited July 18, 2023 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[maccaliam]

On 7/17/2023 at 11:25 AM, Bigandy said:

I would argue the exact opposite. 

Working within FFP as @WestHamCanadianinOxfordposted will put some restrictions on newcastle. Howe typically plays with 1 striker but has put Isak out wide last season and the odd 2 man strike partnership up front. Sure, they could use a 3rd top striker for depth but the weakest position in the squad is arguably wingers. Losing ASM whos the highest quality winger (even if he doesnt fit the style) weakens the winger pool even more. If you're newcastle, surely you say that you need a winger before a striker. Then you need a top RCB, likely a LB. Once those 3 are signed, you can look for more depth pieces. 

40-90 mil Winger - Kvaratskhelia 
30 mil LB - Tierney quality player
40-60 mil CB - Disasi quality? 
depth Cam - 15 mil ? 
depth RB - 15 mil livramanto 
Depth winger- 20 mil barnes 
depth striker - 40 mil David 

Its not impossible that David goes to Newcastle, but theres alot of other dominoes that will likely fall first before Newcastle makes a move for a striker. 

I do love the idea of a 4-4-1-1 with bruno and tonali feeding david and isak. 

I am not sure you have argued the  opposite but no worries, as I understand your point of view. 
 

I personally believe that Newcastle will need more options in attack with more games and inevitable rotation/injuries/suspensions. They will also likely want more options tactically (as becoming a top team means opponents often change how they play against you vs previous seasons), and I believe David is a good option as he is able to play more than one role for the team. His pressing is also a huge attribute for the modern game.