Jonathan David

[GasPed]

9 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Kane, Lewandowski and even Choupo-Moting are not the same profile striker as Jonathan David.  They want what they want.

 

Kane wants to be at a world-class club (or at least I think he wants to win stuff.) I don't think the Premier League ones need him and he probably doesn't fit the style of the other ones that can afford him. It would be a great fit for me but apparently I need to step my Kane-hating game.

Yes, Sadio Mane is closer in profile to David, and we saw how well he worked out as a Lewandowski replacement.  There's no chance Bayern takes another chance on an undersized opportunistic striker vs a target man.

I do agree Cyle Larin could probably score 20 goals with BM though - I mean Choupo-Moting would've if he was healthy.

[InglewoodJack]

9 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I like Kane for Bayern. They are a top 5 side in World Football. It's the best move he could make outside of England, aside from Real Madrid. Barcelona are set with Lewandowski and Kane fills the void he left, both in terms of playing style but also status and reputation. Few strikers have the status and reputation of Lewandowski, and Kane is one of them. David is not on that level at this stage of his career, obviously. IF Bayern wanted a project they'd go for David, but I think Bayern needs a big player and Kane would fit the bill.

For Kane I like it because I like to see the best English players test themselves abroad. It doesn't happen enough IMO. Michael Owen went to Madrid and so did David Beckham. Staying in England and going to Man U would be predictable and boring, although I would enjoy the Kane vs Halland narratives if that happens. 

I agree with most of this, for me it just goes back to the fact that I don't think Bayern needs to spend 100M on a striker, especially since they won the league on nearly the exact same average goals per game with Choupo-Moting as they did with Lewy. Now they obviously had a disappointing season overall, but I would credit that to Mane flopping, Upamecano singlehandedly losing them like 3 games after the world cup, the failed Cancelo loan, Davies having some rough moments, Neuer being out so long, Naggelsmann getting canned, so on.

That's probably me putting my CANMNT hat on and thinking about how clubs can save money and make savvy moves, but if Bayern wants to drop a king's ransom for him and he wants the challenge of playing outside of England, I support it. As for status and rep, I don't think any player will ever be bigger than the crest with Bayern. They're like the Habs, Cowboys, Celtics, etc. where it doesn't matter how big you are, the name on the front of the jersey is what fans come for, not the one on the back.

[Obinna]

9 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I agree with most of this, for me it just goes back to the fact that I don't think Bayern needs to spend 100M on a striker, especially since they won the league on nearly the exact same average goals per game with Choupo-Moting as they did with Lewy. Now they obviously had a disappointing season overall, but I would credit that to Mane flopping, Upamecano singlehandedly losing them like 3 games after the world cup, the failed Cancelo loan, Davies having some rough moments, Neuer being out so long, Naggelsmann getting canned, so on.

That's probably me putting my CANMNT hat on and thinking about how clubs can save money and make savvy moves, but if Bayern wants to drop a king's ransom for him and he wants the challenge of playing outside of England, I support it. As for status and rep, I don't think any player will ever be bigger than the crest with Bayern. They're like the Habs, Cowboys, Celtics, etc. where it doesn't matter how big you are, the name on the front of the jersey is what fans come for, not the one on the back.

And I agree with most of this as well. You've mentioned Larin as an example and I definitely agree.

However, what I am thinking is that Bayern could use a big-name forward for reasons outside of tactics. Without Lewandowski I feel they lost the fear factor they had when they won Champions League. He was (still is) a player who could be in the conversation for best striker in the World, if not best player in the World. Kane is arguably that level of player. I feel it would keep them amongst the favourites for Champions League.

Then, there is the commercial opportunities which could somewhat offset a fee of $100M, perhaps. I like that Bayern is typically shrewd and I feel being so good with their money means they can splurge like this once in a while. Good for them if they can pull it off, but also good for Davies to set the table for someone like Kane. 

 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

2 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

I agree with most of this, for me it just goes back to the fact that I don't think Bayern needs to spend 100M on a striker....

Technically none of us needs to follow football as much as we do, but what fun would it be if we didn't.😉

[Unnamed Trialist]

I see Openda, who was at Lens and had a similar goal-scoring pace as Jonathan last season. has been sold to Leipzig for just over 40 million. He's 23. I think that David has a slightly better upside but the difference, on paper, is not great.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

53 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I see Openda, who was at Lens and had a similar goal-scoring pace as Jonathan last season. has been sold to Leipzig for just over 40 million. He's 23. I think that David has a slightly better upside but the difference, on paper, is not great.

I would say their values are different for a reason. Openda had one season in Ligue 1, his number are similar to David's for the 2 years before that but were in the Eredivisie.

RB Leipzig does tend to have an eye for talent but they are also flush with that sweet, sweet Nkunku and Szoboszlai money.

My way of saying I think they did over pay a little and I think David will go for more but probably not the €60 mill that Lille are hoping.  Unless things get crazy late in the window.

Edited July 14, 2023 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Unnamed Trialist]

20 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I would say their values are different for a reason. Openda had one season in Ligue 1, his number are similar to David's for the 2 years before that but were in the Eredivisie.

RB Leipzig does tend to have an eye for talent but they are also flush with that sweet, sweet Nkunku and Szoboszlai money.

My way of saying I think they did over pay a little and I think David will go for more but probably not the €60 mill that Lille are hoping.  Unless things get crazy late in the window.

The market is flat still, pretty well everywhere, but all you need is for a team to come out of the gate in August with 3 straight losses and the purse-strings are quickly loosened. Does it make sense to wait a few weeks for 5-10 million more, in his case? Of course.

This is why the players should put their heads down and train with their current teams, thinking David, Buchanan, Larin, especially, because when the moves do come through they have to be ready to hit the ground at their new clubs running.

[Stryker911]

4 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I see Openda, who was at Lens and had a similar goal-scoring pace as Jonathan last season. has been sold to Leipzig for just over 40 million. He's 23. I think that David has a slightly better upside but the difference, on paper, is not great.

Very strange. I saw what Openda went for and figured that put David closer to Nkunku money. Openda and David do have alot of similarities, born 1 month apart, have 1 inch height difference and both scored over 20 goals in Ligue 1 last year. 

2022/23, both played in France. In all competitions David scored 5 more goals in 2 less games.

There 2020/21, 2021/2022 seasons combined are almost identical. Openda scored 29 league goals in 70 games. While David scored 28 in 75. The main difference here is that David was doing that in a far superior league and won a league title. While Openda played for an upper table Dutch team.

Things get even more wild the 2 seasons prior when they were both in Belgium. Openda had only 5 goals in 53 games while David had 37 in 83.

All this to say Openda got a large transfer after 1 good season. David, with a much better track record, should go for much more.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

Despite all my talk above, I am starting to hope Kane stays put.  Way too much David as replacement talk in the English press (ultimately from l'Equipe) the last couple days.

And Howe at Newcastle has been make FFP noises, either as a smokescreen or to head off fan disappointment.

Update:

The Sunday morning British papers are thinking Kane to Bayern is on, while Spurs want Vlahovic as a replacement, that leaves Lukaku going to Juve (or Saudi Arabia). 

Edited July 16, 2023 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[VinceA]

Don't know about you guys but it kind of feels no one really wants David. It seems like he's the 6th choice on everyone's list.

[frmr]

1 hour ago, VinceA said:

Don't know about you guys but it kind of feels no one really wants David. It seems like he's the 6th choice on everyone's list.

Same situation as beginning of window. He’s one of several expected to move, the first domino has just yet to fall.

[Kadenge]

None of the big strikers have moved yet. It's not a knock on David. But Lille have to be reasonable about the fee and David needs to be flexible about the league, especially if he gets CL games. It's not going to help him if he stays with Lille another season.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

It's a half intriguing/half frustrating process following all this.

But step back and consider that we are reading about a Canadian being mentioned in conversations just below the top strikers in the world.

Edited July 16, 2023 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Jack1997]

Lot of Balogun to Inter rumours, that would really piss me off

[Kadenge]

2 minutes ago, Jack1997 said:

Lot of Balogun to Inter rumours, that would really piss me off

Balogun is only 1 inch taller than David. Both are not big physical #9s.

[jhoops__]

 

[jhoops__]

[jhoops__]

Bali gun has had one good season and he’s just one year younger.   David the better overall player imo…

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, jhoops__ said:

Bali gun has had one good season and he’s just one year younger.   David the better overall player imo…

 

4 hours ago, Jack1997 said:

Lot of Balogun to Inter rumours, that would really piss me off

Agreed, but not surprised Balogun is being considered as an alternative to David. Both are clearly in that 2nd tier of elite forwards according to the market. They are going to fall in place once the bigger dominos fall. David is the more proven player but the market sees them in a similar vein. Kane, Osihmen and Lukaku (linked to Juve now) will be the market movers. Vlahovic is somewhat inbetween.

23 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Despite all my talk above, I am starting to hope Kane stays put.  Way too much David as replacement talk in the English press (ultimately from l'Equipe) the last couple days.

And Howe at Newcastle has been make FFP noises, either as a smokescreen or to head off fan disappointment.

Update:

The Sunday morning British papers are thinking Kane to Bayern is on, while Spurs want Vlahovic as a replacement, that leaves Lukaku going to Juve (or Saudi Arabia). 

The more time passes the more I am okay with Spurs. It's a lot of pressure to replace Kane, but at the same time I feel that people are going to be realistic and aren't going to expect David to literally be Kane, as nobody really can be (unless you are talking Lewandowski - which is why Bayern want Kane).

Yes David will give up European football for the time being, but Spurs will be back in the Europa or Champions League the following season. No European football allows them to focus on the league and David is obviously going to play. I haven't taken the temperature of what Spurs fans think of David, but I imagine they'd view it as a sensible response to a difficult situation.

If I were a Spurs fan I would hope a combination of David, Son and whoever else can score by committee and be collectively be good enough to get them back into the top 4. I would not entertain fantasies of David replacing all of David's goals, but if he could come in and get +10 league goals in his first season, that would be money well spent.

As someone who follows England more closely, would you agree with my take here? How are Spurs fans viewing David? Is getting +10 goals too low a bar?

Cheers

[jhoops__]

David profiles to be a Ollie Watkins type 9 imo.  Perhaps a bit better ceiling but a guy that can score 14-18 goals on a good club.  He’s also very good in other areas as well and good on the press.   A lot of Spurs fans think Richarlison is their future 9 but man that dude is overrated…

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

33 minutes ago, Obinna said:

 

Agreed, but not surprised Balogun is being considered as an alternative to David. Both are clearly in that 2nd tier of elite forwards according to the market. They are going to fall in place once the bigger dominos fall. David is the more proven player but the market sees them in a similar vein. Kane, Osihmen and Lukaku (linked to Juve now) will be the market movers. Vlahovic is somewhat inbetween.

The more time passes the more I am okay with Spurs. It's a lot of pressure to replace Kane, but at the same time I feel that people are going to be realistic and aren't going to expect David to literally be Kane, as nobody really can be (unless you are talking Lewandowski - which is why Bayern want Kane).

Yes David will give up European football for the time being, but Spurs will be back in the Europa or Champions League the following season. No European football allows them to focus on the league and David is obviously going to play. I haven't taken the temperature of what Spurs fans think of David, but I imagine they'd view it as a sensible response to a difficult situation.

If I were a Spurs fan I would hope a combination of David, Son and whoever else can score by committee and be collectively be good enough to get them back into the top 4. I would not entertain fantasies of David replacing all of David's goals, but if he could come in and get +10 league goals in his first season, that would be money well spent.

As someone who follows England more closely, would you agree with my take here? How are Spurs fans viewing David? Is getting +10 goals too low a bar?

Cheers

Huge biases aside (if that is possible) David deserves to be in Europe, at least, probably Champions League, this year.  He missed out last year.

Maybe if  he went to a team out of Europe, a traditional power that could guarantee they would back next year... maybe.

That is not Spurs at least if you are talking Champions League.  Chelsea and Liverpool, with more resources, had bad years too. Newcastle are there to stay. Arsenal have strengthened already. Man. United will.

 

PS Spurs fans would be apoplectic if he came in for close to asking price and got just 10 goals.

Edited July 16, 2023 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Dominic94]

I think the big thing people forget is that no big striker has signed. He was never going to be the first to move 

[Ruud]

3 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Huge biases aside (if that is possible) David deserves to be in Europe, at least, probably Champions League, this year.  He missed out last year.

Maybe if  he went to a team out of Europe, a traditional power that could guarantee they would back next year... maybe.

That is not Spurs at least if you are talking Champions League.  Chelsea and Liverpool, with more resources, had bad years too. Newcastle are there to stay. Arsenal have strengthened already. Man. United will.

 

PS Spurs fans would be apoplectic if he came in for close to asking price and got just 10 goals.

I’ve never met a satisfied spurs fan.  Don’t know what value for money looks like if it knocks David Levy in the head 

[Obinna]

48 minutes ago, Ruud said:

I’ve never met a satisfied spurs fan.  Don’t know what value for money looks like if it knocks David Levy in the head 

 

4 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Huge biases aside (if that is possible) David deserves to be in Europe, at least, probably Champions League, this year.  He missed out last year.

Maybe if  he went to a team out of Europe, a traditional power that could guarantee they would back next year... maybe.

That is not Spurs at least if you are talking Champions League.  Chelsea and Liverpool, with more resources, had bad years too. Newcastle are there to stay. Arsenal have strengthened already. Man. United will.

 

PS Spurs fans would be apoplectic if he came in for close to asking price and got just 10 goals.

Sounds like I should withdraw my support of a Spurs move. Thanks gents. 

[jhoops__]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12306307/Lille-forward-Jonathan-David-considered-Tottenham-hunt-begins-Harry-Kanes-replacement.html