Jonathan David

[Shway]

29 minutes ago, jonovision said:

Most fans, myself included, really can't tell the difference in quality between a top-league and a near-top-league.

Team?....well isn't that a good thing?
Most fans including myself hating watch Barcelona, or Bayern play a game expecting them to win by 2+ goals.
If that's not what you mean, then I digress.

29 minutes ago, jonovision said:

It comes down to culture and marketing, and I find the packaging of EPL to be off-putting. 

This is interesting statement. And I'm really trying to understand your stand point rather than trying to dissect your reasoning that is contrary to mine. 

But what does the culture, marketing, and packaging have to do with the quality and entertaining footy that is on display?

29 minutes ago, jonovision said:

Also, I don't consider "don't find it interesting" to be the attitude of a hater.

Correct me if I'm wrong....but you follow the SPFL no?

I've stated this before, I hold no affinity to English football outside of the team I support...but I also watch a vast variety of football outside of the EPL (in my footy circles, I'm looked at as weird because of this) as I'm always entertained by a game, and the cultural aspects of it...but I do dissect quality at the various levels that I watch. 
 

[jonovision]

35 minutes ago, Shway said:

Team?....well isn't that a good thing?
Most fans including myself hating watch Barcelona, or Bayern play a game expecting them to win by 2+ goals.
If that's not what you mean, then I digress.

This is interesting statement. And I'm really trying to understand your stand point rather than trying to dissect your reasoning that is contrary to mine. 

But what does the culture, marketing, and packaging have to do with the quality and entertaining footy that is on display?

Correct me if I'm wrong....but you follow the SPFL no?

I've stated this before, I hold no affinity to English football outside of the team I support...but I also watch a vast variety of football outside of the EPL (in my footy circles, I'm looked at as weird because of this) as I'm always entertained by a game, and the cultural aspects of it...but I do dissect quality at the various levels that I watch. 
 

Never.

Put more simply, I don't find the football between top leagues to be all that different in terms of how compelling it is. When watching a foreign league a lot of the appeal is how interesting the country and culture are to me, and I find most countries to be more interesting, or more appealing, than England.

David will do fine wherever he ends up.

Edited April 28, 2023 by jonovision

[Macksam]

1 hour ago, Shway said:

Woah I liked your post, then had to unlike it lol.

EPL haters...I don't know. Because I barely watch any TV and watch all kinds of football leagues (wife hates it) there's just way to much quality on every team in the EPL, and then you get to watch in multiples games. I don't know how people don't like it. Matter of fact, what's your reason? 

(I actually think Ligue 1 is wrongfully stated as a farmers league, because there's a lot of quality in it)

I think PSG would be go for him based on they are annually in the UCL, and what they are trying to change with Messi and Neymar eventually leaving. I think Mbappe playing with David would be massive for his game, as his positional awareness is on another level for his age. 

So for me, if its PSG I would prefer that move over the likes of "West Ham". Even Newcastle doesn't seem ideal with their strikers finally meshing.

For me, taking the man in the display pic out of the picture, I have to say Valencia when they had Ever Banega, Hamsik at Napoli and Pjanic at Lyon was peak soccer. Banega's career derailing with that car accident has slowly killed the sport. I guess modern day MLS is kinda cool and watching York United live with the 80 other people in the stands is pure KINO. 

[Wingback6]

5 hours ago, narduch said:

I'm predicting he ends up in the EPL for over 100 million Euros

No. He has the wrong passport for that kind of money. Far worse players have made the jump to the EPL after a single good season in Ligue 1, for more money than he has been valued at. And he has 2 solid seasons, and 1 stellar one under his bet in that league. Compare him to Folarin Balogun, and the BS hype around him, par example. It is a damn joke.

[narduch]

Starting v Ajaccio.

It's on One Soccer / Fubo / BeIn

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

On 4/27/2023 at 11:26 PM, Wingback6 said:

No. He has the wrong passport for that kind of money. Far worse players have made the jump to the EPL after a single good season in Ligue 1, for more money than he has been valued at. And he has 2 solid seasons, and 1 stellar one under his bet in that league. Compare him to Folarin Balogun, and the BS hype around him, par example. It is a damn joke.

It is less about hype for me and more about practicality.   For both Europe and League play you need homegrown players, which Balogun is for English teams and especially Arsenal.   That situation drives a much high transfer fee.

[Joe MacCarthy]

[red card]

Opta scouting report says David has an interesting profile because he’s got a number of strengths but it’s arguable that none of them yet are top tier.

His off-ball movement is not elite, although how far off it is from that level is up for some debate and he does have some shooting flexibility to his credit. He clearly holds his own when sealing his opponent and acting as a release valve.

Overall as a playmaker though, he’s more of a tertiary creator. 

Compared to others within the big five leagues in Europe, David’s goal contribution numbers are good but rank a couple of levels below the absolute elite level.

Expected goals and assists paints him in a better light in the top 40, but still a rung below the likes of Victor Osimhen and Erling Haaland. 

While David not being a heavy on-ball initiator helps with his portability to other teams, the questions concerning the true extent of his off-ball prowess and passing make it harder to tell how much of a ceiling-raiser he ends up being.

When it comes to thinking about David’s floor/ceiling, a noteworthy comparison might be Alexandre Lacazette. Both were proficient with their link-up play and bringing others into the fold. David is a bit quicker while Lacazette was slightly more adept at creating individual shooting opportunities. 

If David does move on from Lille this summer at or near the reported €65 million fee being quoted, the downside would be that while it’s unlikely for him to be a complete bust, he may not provide added value on his deal which was also the case with Lacazette at Arsenal.

Top European sides will be hoping that if they acquire him, there’s another leap on the horizon for the Canadian striker.

https://theanalyst.com/na/2023/04/jonathan-david-scouting-report/

 

[frmr]

5 minutes ago, red card said:

Opta scouting report says David has an interesting profile because he’s got a number of strengths but it’s arguable that none of them yet are top tier.

His off-ball movement is not elite, although how far off it is from that level is up for some debate and he does have some shooting flexibility to his credit. He clearly holds his own when sealing his opponent and acting as a release valve.

Overall as a playmaker though, he’s more of a tertiary creator. 

Compared to others within the big five leagues in Europe, David’s goal contribution numbers are good but rank a couple of levels below the absolute elite level.

Expected goals and assists paints him in a better light in the top 40, but still a rung below the likes of Victor Osimhen and Erling Haaland. 

While David not being a heavy on-ball initiator helps with his portability to other teams, the questions concerning the true extent of his off-ball prowess and passing make it harder to tell how much of a ceiling-raiser he ends up being.

When it comes to thinking about David’s floor/ceiling, a noteworthy comparison might be Alexandre Lacazette. Both were proficient with their link-up play and bringing others into the fold. David is a bit quicker while Lacazette was slightly more adept at creating individual shooting opportunities. 

If David does move on from Lille this summer at or near the reported €65 million fee being quoted, the downside would be that while it’s unlikely for him to be a complete bust, he may not provide added value on his deal which was also the case with Lacazette at Arsenal.

Top European sides will be hoping that if they acquire him, there’s another leap on the horizon for the Canadian striker.

https://theanalyst.com/na/2023/04/jonathan-david-scouting-report/

 

I've often thought about David having a Lacazette-like career but I think he will surpass him by a fair amount. He is not at his peak yet and I think he can raise his game to another level or two. Lacazette didn't really start producing until he was 22/23, while David has been producing consistently since 18 and has started to tear up Ligue 1 two years earlier than Laca did. If he is able to reach a level above Lacazette, I would be relatively happy with that. People give Lacazette a hard time because of how his Arsenal career ended, but he has over 70 goals for them.

[Bertuzzi44]

If David can have a Lacazette-like career I think that would be great. 4 consecutive 10+ league goal seasons for a top Premier League club isn't too shabby.

[Ruud]

Beginning to think only PSG or maybe Newcastle have the fiscal weight to take David. 

[InglewoodJack]

Newcastle still makes most sense. I don't think I've heard them tied to any similar or bigger names recently either.

[Kadenge]

55 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Newcastle still makes most sense. I don't think I've heard them tied to any similar or bigger names recently either.

Callum Wilson, although31, has 15G 4A in 26 games good for 7th in EPL and Isak who is only 23 has 10G 1A in just 17 games. There is CL next season so NC will need more top end players, but can David unseat either of those players?  Have seen Isak play as a striker but perhaps he also plays as a wide forward? 

[Bigandy]

2 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

Newcastle still makes most sense. I don't think I've heard them tied to any similar or bigger names recently either.

I strongly disagree. 

Wilson and Isak are there 2 main guys. Stylistically Howe doesnt think they can start games consistently together so you always have one guy on rotation. Look at the guys Howe is targeting. Quite often they are proven prem players or a top end guy in a weak position. They also don't splash the cash like man city did at the start. Its slow progressive growth with FFP rules in mind. 

They need an attacking mid, wingers, lb, and rcb. I would imagine they focus on those positions first. 
Tierney, Maddison, Mount, raphina, diaby, are just a few linked to newcastle. They will spent close to 100m on tierney and a winger (raphina) and then another 50-100 on a cb and midfielder. To add another 70 million for a striker/david just seems outside the scope of newcastles recruitment policy. 

[narduch]

Starting v Reims

[frmr]

Probably lots of scouts watching this game. David vs Balogun.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

On 5/3/2023 at 10:49 AM, Bigandy said:

I strongly disagree. 

Wilson and Isak are there 2 main guys. Stylistically Howe doesnt think they can start games consistently together so you always have one guy on rotation. Look at the guys Howe is targeting. Quite often they are proven prem players or a top end guy in a weak position. They also don't splash the cash like man city did at the start. Its slow progressive growth with FFP rules in mind. 

They need an attacking mid, wingers, lb, and rcb. I would imagine they focus on those positions first. 
Tierney, Maddison, Mount, raphina, diaby, are just a few linked to newcastle. They will spent close to 100m on tierney and a winger (raphina) and then another 50-100 on a cb and midfielder. To add another 70 million for a striker/david just seems outside the scope of newcastles recruitment policy. 

Wilson is having probably his best season ever in the Premier League. Not surprising because he is playing in the best team he ever has.  But he has lost a lot of games in a lot of years to injury.  He's 31 now and that likely gets worse rather than better. 

Isak looks the real deal.  But even playing consistently 433 as Howe does, you need more that 2 senior strikers, especially if one is on the wrong side of 30 and you hope to be playing on multiple fronts regularly. 

David could also slot in where Joelinton or Willock have. 

FFP really seems to come into play with consistent massive wages more so than transfer spending.  The TV money means teams like West Ham and Nottingham Forest can spend big even without Champions League money. (Who knows what Chelsea are doing?)

In short, if they think they can use him, it's not ruled out for me. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

9 minutes ago, frmr said:

Probably lots of scouts watching this game. David vs Balogun.

And if you are looking for a manager Still vs. Fonesca  

[Bigandy]

On 5/6/2023 at 11:26 AM, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Wilson is having probably his best season ever in the Premier League. Not surprising because he is playing in the best team he ever has.  But he has lost a lot of games in a lot of years to injury.  He's 31 now and that likely gets worse rather than better. 

Isak looks the real deal.  But even playing consistently 433 as Howe does, you need more that 2 senior strikers, especially if one is on the wrong side of 30 and you hope to be playing on multiple fronts regularly. 

David could also slot in where Joelinton or Willock have. 

FFP really seems to come into play with consistent massive wages more so than transfer spending.  The TV money means teams like West Ham and Nottingham Forest can spend big even without Champions League money. (Who knows what Chelsea are doing?)

In short, if they think they can use him, it's not ruled out for me. 

Its for sure not ruled out but I wouldnt say its likely. Howe plays a 4-3-3 which isnt the ideal system for David. Joelinton and Willock are pretty box to box and they are likely to get a specialist CDM to move Bruno further forward. Joelinton can also play up top so theres 3ish strikers for 2 positions. I think it makes more sense to get a young striker for coverage who can develop and wont be upset on the bench. Why would David, who seems fairly picky on where he is going, accept a transfer as a bench player. 

I 100% agree FFP has to do with wages as well but David wont come cheap. If they are bringing in the dembele, diaby sort of players, their wage bill is going to double pretty soon. The priority would be to spend the large wages that david would ask for in a priority position. 

When you look at how newcastle are building their team, its extremely meticulous. David would be the type of signing a man city would have made during their building years. Great player, doesnt 100% suit the system, not the position that needs upgrading the most, quite expensive. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

37 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Its for sure not ruled out but I wouldnt say its likely. Howe plays a 4-3-3 which isnt the ideal system for David. Joelinton and Willock are pretty box to box and they are likely to get a specialist CDM to move Bruno further forward. Joelinton can also play up top so theres 3ish strikers for 2 positions. I think it makes more sense to get a young striker for coverage who can develop and wont be upset on the bench. Why would David, who seems fairly picky on where he is going, accept a transfer as a bench player. 

I 100% agree FFP has to do with wages as well but David wont come cheap. If they are bringing in the dembele, diaby sort of players, their wage bill is going to double pretty soon. The priority would be to spend the large wages that david would ask for in a priority position. 

When you look at how newcastle are building their team, its extremely meticulous. David would be the type of signing a man city would have made during their building years. Great player, doesnt 100% suit the system, not the position that needs upgrading the most, quite expensive. 

I think his representation have been picky, somewhat to his detriment in the way he started at Lille, but David is just saying all the "right" things about where he is linked with from what I have read.

Joelinton was pretty poor when played as a striker, one of supposed big money busts aside Seb Haller that year and a couple(?) after.  He has scored more goals (6) from other positions this year than in any other of his Premier League seasons playing as a centre forward.  I think he needs to stay there. All the players I have seriously seen Newcastle linked with so far have been in that position. 

But no way you want to be entering the Champions League and consolidate your European Premier League position with two strikers, one of which is 30 plus with a history of suspect fitness.  I watched Isak and Wilson start together yesterday as well. And Wilson has come off the bench in  a lot of games since Isak has been back injured.  David could very well start and if you offered David starts at least in the Champions League and triple the highest wage figure I have seen for him (which would not break Newcastle and not put him in the top 80 of Premier League wages) he's probably not going to dismiss it out of hand.  

I want David to go where he will play, Serie A looks like great but Newcastle is not the worst option nor the least likely. 

Edited May 8, 2023 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Bigandy]

31 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I think his representation have been picky, somewhat to his detriment in the way he started at Lille, but David is just saying all the "right" things about where he is linked with from what I have read.

Joelinton was pretty poor when played as a striker, one of supposed big money busts aside Seb Haller that year and a couple(?) after.  He has scored more goals (6) from other positions this year than in any other of his Premier League seasons playing as a centre forward.  I think he needs to stay there. All the players I have seriously seen Newcastle linked with so far have been in that position. 

But no way you want to be entering the Champions League and consolidate your European Premier League position with two strikers, one of which is 30 plus with a history of suspect fitness.  I watched Isak and Wilson start together yesterday as well. And Wilson has come off the bench in  a lot of games since Isak has been back injured.  David could very well start and if you offered David starts at least in the Champions League and triple the highest wage figure I have seen for him (which would not break Newcastle and not put him in the top 80 of Premier League wages) he's probably not going to dismiss it out of hand.  

I want David to go where he will play, Serie A looks like great but Newcastle is not the worst option nor the least likely. 

Joelinton is poor at ST but has done reasonably well in cup games against poor teams. He is a back up filler option in those types of games. Bring in a a young striker to develop and you have 4 options. 

Real madrid have benzema whos over 30 and struggling with injuries and mariano whos a very low quality back up striker. 
Man city have haaland and alvarez as their only strikers. 
Ac Milan have origi, Giroud whos ancient and ibra whos ancient and always injured. 
3 of the last 4 teams in champions league dont have much more than 2 strikers. 


Obviously depth is important and I agree that newcastle need another striker, but David just isnt the right fit from a squad management, style and budget perspective. They also have kuol but I am not sure if hes a #9 but he would be a perfect depth piece against lower end teams in cup competitions. 

I also havent seen many strikers seriously linked to newcastle. Who have you seen seriously linked.

Raphina, mctominey, gallagher, loftus cheek, teirney, diaby, barnes, maddison, ward prowse, mount, veiga, schuurs, N williams, bremer are the players ive seen seriously linked. (none are strikers) These suggest a winger, CB, LB, CM and CAM are priority. 

The one striker who i see as a decent fit who was linked would be joao pedro from watford. Hes proven in the english system, young and not established enough to expect to start every game. However, I think hes off to brighton. 
 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

34 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Real madrid have benzema whos over 30 and struggling with injuries and mariano whos a very low quality back up striker. 
Man city have haaland and alvarez as their only strikers. 
Ac Milan have origi, Giroud whos ancient and ibra whos ancient and always injured. 
3 of the last 4 teams in champions league dont have much more than 2 strikers. 
 

You post gets a little dicey for me when you start comparing Benzema (and other well-decorated aging strikers) with Callum Wilson.  You have some generational talent in amongst these players which is not wholly surprising considering you picked the Champions League semi-finalist.  I don't think Newcastle are looking to be there realistically next season. 

But a few points:

If your Newcastle list includes Joelinton, your Milan list has to include Rebic, Leao and our old friend De Ketelaere who have all played centre forward at some point. Rebic came on for Giroud this weekend for instance. 

Man City have the ability to play without a real striker a fair bit.  They finished the Champions League game they won with Real Madrid with Sterling, Foden, and Mahrez.  And that was not uncommon throughout last season without their two current strikers.  Gabriel Jesus left partially because he wasn't always allowed to play as a centre forward despite being the only real senior one (with apologies to Rory Delap).  Having two central forward (as well as bunch of players who can play there) is what they hope will actually take them over the Champions League hump. 

 

Not sure you transfer list is neccesarily made up of realistic players.  Most of them are players around and/or in danger of relelgation.  They are lazy picks for journos. And a lot of attacking central midfielders in there which might be David's best position in a physical league. 

I guess we will see. 

 

 

 

[Bigandy]

27 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

You post gets a little dicey for me when you start comparing Benzema (and other well-decorated aging strikers) with Callum Wilson.  You have some generational talent in amongst these players which is not wholly surprising considering you picked the Champions League semi-finalist.  I don't think Newcastle are looking to be there realistically next season. 

But a few points:

If your Newcastle list includes Joelinton, your Milan list has to include Rebic, Leao and our old friend De Ketelaere who have all played centre forward at some point. Rebic came on for Giroud this weekend for instance. 

Man City have the ability to play without a real striker a fair bit.  They finished the Champions League game they won with Real Madrid with Sterling, Foden, and Mahrez.  And that was not uncommon throughout last season without their two current strikers.  Gabriel Jesus left partially because he wasn't always allowed to play as a centre forward despite being the only real senior one (with apologies to Rory Delap).  Having two central forward (as well as bunch of players who can play there) is what they hope will actually take them over the Champions League hump. 

 

Not sure you transfer list is neccesarily made up of realistic players.  Most of them are players around and/or in danger of relelgation.  They are lazy picks for journos. And a lot of attacking central midfielders in there which might be David's best position in a physical league. 

I guess we will see. 

 

 

 

For sure its Dicey. The point is that madrid, milan and city are using 2ish senior strikers and then supplement that position with wingers or Cams who can also play there. Thats similar to what newcastle is doing this season. In terms of talent, wilson is obv no where near those other names. 

Only barnes, maddison and ward prowse are near relegation from my list. All 3 will likely stay in the prem and all 3 would be players that fit newcastles recruitment history. A dan burn and matt targett signing is very similar to a maddison or ward prowse. English, proven players, a step up from their club. Not crazy money involved. But feel free to discount these 3 rumours and you still have a list of targets that still support my point. In fact, most of these guys are on top teams like arsenal, barca, man u, chelsea(i know... I know...), leverkusen. With the other teams being pretty stable guys like bilbao, torino. 

I see your point that i doubt they go after bremer or nico williams but Schuurs seems exactly like their botman signing. Tierney is a perfect situation to solve their LB challenge.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

6 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

For sure its Dicey. The point is that madrid, milan and city are using 2ish senior strikers and then supplement that position with wingers or Cams who can also play there. Thats similar to what newcastle is doing this season. In terms of talent, wilson is obv no where near those other names. 

Only barnes, maddison and ward prowse are near relegation from my list. All 3 will likely stay in the prem and all 3 would be players that fit newcastles recruitment history. A dan burn and matt targett signing is very similar to a maddison or ward prowse. English, proven players, a step up from their club. Not crazy money involved. But feel free to discount these 3 rumours and you still have a list of targets that still support my point. In fact, most of these guys are on top teams like arsenal, barca, man u, chelsea(i know... I know...), leverkusen. With the other teams being pretty stable guys like bilbao, torino. 

I see your point that i doubt they go after bremer or nico williams but Schuurs seems exactly like their botman signing. Tierney is a perfect situation to solve their LB challenge.

Fair points all.  I guess I hear a lot of those names linked with all and sundry in England so maybe truth and maybe just lazy.  The players I have mostly recently seen stories about them actually scouting are Arda Guler, Dominik Szoboszlai, and Amadou Haidara.  You are probably looking to replace Willock with at least a couple those, which I also think David could partially do. 

I don't want him - David - there to be clear.  I have sympathy for Newcastle because they are a lot like us in the past, put I am sure they will pick up a huge wave of plastics in the near future.  And in my eternal optimism, a new owner and a new manager will have us up there challenging them again. We certainly spent enough.  A new manager with David and Scamacca in a 352 could be a thing of beauty.

[InglewoodJack]

Just saw a thing about Aston Villa being concerned they're going to loose Ollie Watkins to Arsenal for around 60M pounds. Wonder if they'd have any interest in swapping him out for David, though I figure they'll probably want someone they can sell on for a profit later, if David is really going to command 60M EUR.