Jonathan David

[ag futbol]

3 minutes ago, frmr said:

Not playing for Lille will probably help.

Agreed. I don’t think he’s quite as inconsistent as the numbers suggest (Lille being the partial culprit) but he still goes through these drops in form which he has to grow out of

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

My worry would be Villa.  Recently they have targetting not the absolute top teir but very good players then just straight paid the asking price.  Lille would love that. 

[InglewoodJack]

29 minutes ago, ag futbol said:

I think before talk of any move there has to be some serious consideration to consistency and how future goal droughts are avoided.

You might get away with it at Lille in a off year or as part of a championship winning team but you’ll risk being nailed to the bench or run out of town in the prem if repeated.

What is there to say other than simply suggesting he should score more goals more consistently?

[Joe1973]

40 minutes ago, ag futbol said:

I think before talk of any move there has to be some serious consideration to consistency and how future goal droughts are avoided.

You might get away with it at Lille in a off year or as part of a championship winning team but you’ll risk being nailed to the bench or run out of town in the prem if repeated.

I've had the misfortune of watching a few Lille games this year. It's unwatchable, no chemistry, no service. And as things were getting bad, it was every man for himself. Bamba, Yilmaz, etc...were all thinking of scoring themselves for  their own careers. Last few games you had red cards, fighting with fans, disagreements with coach.  David is still young and will still improve with experience. As much as yes he has to improve consistency, but this second half with Lille is not the real picture either.

Far cry from last year this team let's say.

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, The Beaver 2.0 said:

Is the Premiership really the best next step for him? That is not a rhetorical question.  

There's really only 4 options in terms of league (assuming he's not going to PSG).

TLDR: I expect him to go to Serie A or the EPL

Bundesliga - I don't see this happening unless it's Bayern, or maybe (but probably not) Dortmund. The latter are a bigger, better and more successful club than Lille, but they are a selling club for the most part. In my eyes they won't be spending a big fee on David, nor would they want to as it's not really their model. For David, I don't think Dortmund is that attractive. He's already in the shop window of some of the biggest buyers. Going to Dortmund, and scoring goals, is probably not going to get him any more attention than he's already getting. It's probably not going to get him titles either. As for Bayern, I like the idea of it personally but I don't see it happening. He's probably more of a Muller replacement than Lewandowski, anyways.

Serie A - More realistic than Bundesliga. More potential destinations. Inter Milan or AC Milan are perhaps the best fits in the division, just in terms of what they can afford and who they currently employ up front, plus both have been linked at one time or another. Juventus is unlikely, however, but there was the recent Napoli link, which is interesting considering that's who bought the striker he replaced at Lille, and they did so for 60M if I am not mistaken, which is in or around David's valuation. Some have suggested Oshimen would have to move on, but I could see them playing well in a two-man partnership, as they have somewhat different qualities. Whether or not Napoli have the funds without selling the Nigerian is another question. Napoli for me would be an appropriate step up, but Roma, Atalanta, Lazio or Fiorentina, the other remaining big clubs in the division, are probably not. I think David is bigger than each of them now.

La Liga - There was the Madrid links some time ago, but this would essentially be David coming into one of the biggest, if not the biggest, clubs in the world and biding his time, which is probably not appealing if his last move is any indication. David seems to prefer taking smaller steps up where his playing time is more certain (which is why I like the Napoli idea). Aside from Madrid, I think Barca is a no-go (@Unnamed Trialist can elaborate) if Lewandowski ends up there. The other club that comes to mind is Atletico. The level of the club I would say is sufficient. I believe they are losing Suarez, who is kind of aging out of the top level and is rumored to return to the EPL, likely with a mid-table club like Aston Villa. David's pressing without the ball could be interesting under Simeone, as would the his links to Ottawa (I wonder if there'd be a cross-promotion opportunity there), but despite that I file a move to Atletico under "unlikely". Clubs like Sevilla and Valencia are probably the only other possibilities, but neither is going to spend +50M pounds on David, I don't think.

EPL - This takes us to the biggest league of all (lol just joking, UT). We have seen the links about Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool (who aren't interested now, apparently), West Ham and Manchester United (oh, and Chelsea now?). He's behind Kane at Spurs, if Kane is going to continue there, which I wouldn't bet against, but assuming he leaves that's a big hole to fill from a popularity and reputation standpoint, if not a goal scoring one. I much prefer Arsenal (I have a club bias here), but aside from that it's a young team that's on the come up. He's going to get playing time and they are roughly getting the same results as Spurs the last few seasons, plus there'd be much less pressure than going to Spurs and replacing Kane. As for Chelsea, I see that as him not being first choice but getting more minutes than he would at Madrid. Manchester United, meanwhile, is a club I would prefer he avoids, though he'd probably get similar minutes to what I think he'd get at Chelsea. Both of those clubs could afford him as well. I won't touch on Liverpool, I don't think he's going there, and West Ham is not really a good fit stylistically (if I recall what @WestHamCanadianinOxford recently said), but in terms of the stature and recent performance of the club, I like the idea of it.  

Edited May 27, 2022 by Obinna

[narduch]

1 hour ago, The Beaver 2.0 said:

Is the Premiership really the best next step for him? That is not a rhetorical question.  

I think he's good enough. The problem was the way Lille plays

I would argue even Canada sometimes doesn't fully use him effectively 

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, Obinna said:

La Liga - There was the Madrid links some time ago, but this would essentially be David coming into one of the biggest, if not the biggest, clubs in the world and biding his time, which is probably not appealing if his last move is any indication. David seems to prefer taking smaller steps up where his playing time is more certain (which is why I like the Napoli idea). Aside from Madrid, I think Barca is a no-go (@Unnamed Trialist can elaborate) if Lewandowski ends up there. The other club that comes to mind is Atletico. The level of the club I would say is sufficient. I believe they are losing Suarez, who is kind of aging out of the top level and is rumored to return to the EPL, likely with a mid-table club like Aston Villa. David's pressing without the ball could be interesting under Simeone, as would the his links to Ottawa (I wonder if there'd be a cross-promotion opportunity there), but despite that I file a move to Atletico under "unlikely". Clubs like Sevilla and Valencia are probably the only other possibilities, but neither is going to spend +50M pounds on David, I don't think.

Basically agree. 

I like Real Madrid because I see how they signed Jovic and they have Mariano and neither worked. But both got minutes. In that role, supporting or subbing for Benzema, David would work. You also have the quality of ball control and assisting to ensure a quality finisher like David would get his chances. 

A player like Jovic not scoring at Madrid--well you have to be a lot worse than we thought.

The most interesting reason for Real Madrid, regardless of how the final goes tomorrow: they missed Mbappe and did not get Haaland, and they have to spend and will spend. On a young attacker. 

A peripheral point of interest: Carlo and his Canada connection.

Atlético: good arguments. He'd fit, and at AtM you don't have to score a lot to be considered effective. Suárez is in decadence, maybe Griezman too.

Sevilla, Valencia: also correct. The former, especially are masters at buying quality and selling on. No other team has even 40 million to spend on a player.

Barça: he does not work for Barça not because we have Aubemayang and may get Lewandowski. He doesn't fit because he does not play our style, and we rarely renounce our style. He's not a Barça player, and that explains why there has not been a single rumour about him (and I've literally seen dozens of player rumours this year, probably more than in the last 15 years).

[Obinna]

5 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Basically agree. 

I like Real Madrid because I see how they signed Jovic and they have Mariano and neither worked. But both got minutes. In that role, supporting or subbing for Benzema, David would work. You also have the quality of ball control and assisting to ensure a quality finisher like David would get his chances. 

A player like Jovic not scoring at Madrid--well you have to be a lot worse than we thought.

The most interesting reason for Real Madrid, regardless of how the final goes tomorrow: they missed Mbappe and did not get Haaland, and they have to spend and will spend. On a young attacker. 

A peripheral point of interest: Carlo and his Canada connection.

Atlético: good arguments. He'd fit, and at AtM you don't have to score a lot to be considered effective. Suárez is in decadence, maybe Griezman too.

Sevilla, Valencia: also correct. The former, especially are masters at buying quality and selling on. No other team has even 40 million to spend on a player.

Barça: he does not work for Barça not because we have Aubemayang and may get Lewandowski. He doesn't fit because he does not play our style, and we rarely renounce our style. He's not a Barça player, and that explains why there has not been a single rumour about him (and I've literally seen dozens of player rumours this year, probably more than in the last 15 years).

Especially appreciate the elaboration on Madrid here. I do suspect that David to Madrid could work better than most would think.

[narduch]

 

[OhCanadaOhBaby]

Apparently he is streaming himself watch the UCL final on the MenInBlazers Twitch channel?

Not exactly sure if he'll be on for the whole thing or just visiting but it sounds like a rare opportunity to see him speak publicly. Always interesting to see the other side of the player, especially one that is about to bring himself and all of Canada Soccer a lot of publicity when he signs. 

Also apparently the game will be delayed so I have no idea when he will be on lol

[OhCanadaOhBaby]

1 minute ago, OhCanadaOhBaby said:

Apparently he is streaming himself watch the UCL final on the MenInBlazers Twitch channel?

Not exactly sure if he'll be on for the whole thing or just visiting but it sounds like a rare opportunity to see him speak publicly. Always interesting to see the other side of the player, especially one that is about to bring himself and all of Canada Soccer a lot of publicity when he signs. 

Also apparently the game will be delayed so I have no idea when he will be on lol

He'll be on at kick off they said so tune in then

[red card]

Pitch invasions seem to back post covid but this one at St. Etienne has been the worst so far. It was pro/rel leg 2 match with Auxerre on BEIN. St. Etienne became the first D1 French club in about 5 years to be relegated due to losing to a D2 club.

 

[CanadianSoccerFan]

32 minutes ago, red card said:

Pitch invasions seem to back post covid but this one at St. Etienne has been the worst so far. It was pro/rel leg 2 match with Auxerre on BEIN. St. Etienne became the first D1 French club in about 5 years to be relegated due to losing to a D2 club.

 

What is missing in these people's own lives that would drive them to behave with such barbarism?  This is absolutely ridiculous.

[Bison44]

44 minutes ago, red card said:

Pitch invasions seem to back post covid but this one at St. Etienne has been the worst so far. It was pro/rel leg 2 match with Auxerre on BEIN. St. Etienne became the first D1 French club in about 5 years to be relegated due to losing to a D2 club.

Were they tossing the flairs at the tunnel/bench to hit the players???  

[Wingback6]

1 hour ago, red card said:

Pitch invasions seem to back post covid but this one at St. Etienne has been the worst so far. It was pro/rel leg 2 match with Auxerre on BEIN. St. Etienne became the first D1 French club in about 5 years to be relegated due to losing to a D2 club.

 

What in all of the fucks is wrong with some people?

[Cheeta]

2 hours ago, red card said:

Pitch invasions seem to back post covid but this one at St. Etienne has been the worst so far. It was pro/rel leg 2 match with Auxerre on BEIN. St. Etienne became the first D1 French club in about 5 years to be relegated due to losing to a D2 club.

 

Don't see what the fuss is about.  Just another day at the office, no?

Oop.   My bad.   Though I was in the Milan Borjan topic.

As you were.

[Free kick]

6 hours ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

What is missing in these people's own lives that would drive them to behave with such barbarism?  This is absolutely ridiculous.

If there is any consolation here is that I have greater faith that French authorities will deal with these incidents properly, than I have in the Mexican authorities abilities to deal with the incidents in Queretaro a few months ago,   

[El Diego]

Every once in a while I remember the Vancouver cup riot and think to myself how stupid that one was.

[InglewoodJack]

The only reason North America doesn’t have these is because we aren’t gonna risk arrest when we spent $350 on a ticket. But we see variations of this downtown every time the Habs win a playoff series. Throwing flares directly at players though, that’s next level shit.

[frmr]

18 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

The only reason North America doesn’t have these is because we aren’t gonna risk arrest when we spent $350 on a ticket. But we see variations of this downtown every time the Habs win a playoff series. Throwing flares directly at players though, that’s next level shit.

I don't think that's the only reason. We have a different culture here altogether. The French will protest and riot at the drop of a hat. North Americans, and especially Canadians are far too docile for that sort of thing.

[Obinna]

11 minutes ago, frmr said:

I don't think that's the only reason. We have a different culture here altogether. The French will protest and riot at the drop of a hat. North Americans, and especially Canadians are far too docile for that sort of thing.

To add, people are being squeezed right now by a triple threat of inflation, underemployment and rising interest rates. The middle and lower class in France are really up against it, a little bit more than we are on this side of the Atlantic. Throw in continental tensions from the conflict in Ukraine and you have the conditions for people to more easily snap and push things further than they otherwise would have.

A lot of tension in the world at the moment. It's a symptom of weakening economy conditions.

[Meepmeep]

19 hours ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

What is missing in these people's own lives that would drive them to behave with such barbarism?  This is absolutely ridiculous.

It's ASSE.  You mix a once storied club (I believe the most titles in French history) being run into the ground-with a well established ultra culture that is Balkan/Eastern European style and this is what you get.  They have a history of light shows, protests against "modern football", acting out to get matches suspended, breaking into closed door matches etc. etc.

It's that simple.

 

 

 

 

[InglewoodJack]

50 minutes ago, Obinna said:

To add, people are being squeezed right now by a triple threat of inflation, underemployment and rising interest rates. The middle and lower class in France are really up against it, a little bit more than we are on this side of the Atlantic. Throw in continental tensions from the conflict in Ukraine and you have the conditions for people to more easily snap and push things further than they otherwise would have.

A lot of tension in the world at the moment. It's a symptom of weakening economy conditions.

I think especially in soccer, it’s easy for fans to see their club owners, with seemingly infinite money field a product that can’t even compete, let alone remain in the top flight, and associate that with larger economic issues. As a supporter, you feel powerless, because if your club implements austerity measures or sells their best player to make the balance sheet work, you can scream and rage as hard as you want and it won’t change anything, because let’s face it, you’re not gonna start cheering for another team now.

I read a sort of existential debate recently about whether the North American or European/international sports supporter model is better after Kevin Durant took videos at an Olympiacos game where people where blasting flares and going insane inside an arena. On one hand, I am 1000% safe inside any major arena in North America, but on the other half, what does all even mean? Here, you spend half a month’s salary to silently watch your team and only get up to go buy $12 beers. You get up, you leave, and you go home. If you stop supporting your team, the club will replace your seat with another corporate sponsor’s season tickets. At least in St Etienne’s case, not that a riot materially changes anything, but at least the front office has to reckon with the question of “how do we avoid this ever happening again”

[saintjoes]

3 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

I think especially in soccer, it’s easy for fans to see their club owners, with seemingly infinite money field a product that can’t even compete, let alone remain in the top flight, and associate that with larger economic issues. As a supporter, you feel powerless, because if your club implements austerity measures or sells their best player to make the balance sheet work, you can scream and rage as hard as you want and it won’t change anything, because let’s face it, you’re not gonna start cheering for another team now.

I read a sort of existential debate recently about whether the North American or European/international sports supporter model is better after Kevin Durant took videos at an Olympiacos game where people where blasting flares and going insane inside an arena. On one hand, I am 1000% safe inside any major arena in North America, but on the other half, what does all even mean? Here, you spend half a month’s salary to silently watch your team and only get up to go buy $12 beers. You get up, you leave, and you go home. If you stop supporting your team, the club will replace your seat with another corporate sponsor’s season tickets. At least in St Etienne’s case, not that a riot materially changes anything, but at least the front office has to reckon with the question of “how do we avoid this ever happening again”

It is an interesting point about spectator culture in soccer. I personally cannot imagine bringing my toddler to a game in the UK or Argentina where it is very much bloke-culture vs the family welcoming nature of our less hardcore football culture in Canada. The perfect mix for me was a TSS rovers game at Swanguard where I could feel safe when my wife and kid went to buy me some $5 cans of craft at the kiosk without me! Lol

[SpursFlu]

On 5/29/2022 at 2:19 PM, CanadianSoccerFan said:

What is missing in these people's own lives that would drive them to behave with such barbarism?  This is absolutely ridiculous.

Even the Champions League final. There were hundreds of idiots who had nothing to do with the game just running around outside the stadium just randomly causing problems with whoever 

I think its a mix of a lack of morality, lack of any sense of consequences and as we get more and more overpopulated and hyper tribal young people feel less a part of and responsible for the general community they live in

Edited May 30, 2022 by SpursFlu