Jonathan David

[Floortom]

25 minutes ago, QBCS said:

He'd fit in best at Arsenal in my opinion. Young squad with high talent, English speaking, lacking a good striker (Sorry laca and auba) but he's better then them. Arsenal are probably looking at Isak as well. But David's better then Isak. Who knows maybe Isak is willing to move in january so Arsenal is pushing for him. 

Based on reading Arsenal supporters forums I actually don’t think David is a great fit for what they want to do. Of course that could change with different tactics and formations and other squad additions, but they seem to be looking for a classic 9 - which is why they wanted Vlahovic. The other options thrown around (toney, isak and David) aren’t really the same type of player and I think David less amongst all of them. 

[frmr]

The main doubts surrounding him at Arsenal seem to be that he plays in a two striker system at Lille. I think that's a partly fair concern, but I also think David could adapt to a lone striker role. I think he would be perfect in Liverpool's system though, the way they deploy a sort of false 9 which drops deeper to let the wingers cut in. I was partly hoping Arsenal would get Vlahovic so they wouldn't be in the running for David in the summer and Liverpool would face less competition. There's now reports of Chelsea, PSG, Barcelona making inquiries.

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, frmr said:

The main doubts surrounding him at Arsenal seem to be that he plays in a two striker system at Lille. I think that's a partly fair concern, but I also think David could adapt to a lone striker role. I think he would be perfect in Liverpool's system though, the way they deploy a sort of false 9 which drops deeper to let the wingers cut in. I was partly hoping Arsenal would get Vlahovic so they wouldn't be in the running for David in the summer and Liverpool would face less competition. There's now reports of Chelsea, PSG, Barcelona making inquiries.

Barça is trying to do the numbers to bid for Haaland, who won't join  MBAPPE anywhere. So they also need options in case that doesn't work. 

David is not a Barça striker imho. 

[Stryker911]

10 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Barça is trying to do the numbers to bid for Haaland, who won't join  MBAPPE anywhere. So they also need options in case that doesn't work. 

David is not a Barça striker imho. 

What makes someone a Barca striker?

[Macksam]

55 minutes ago, Stryker911 said:

What makes someone a Barca striker?

Even better question, why would he entertain the idea of going to a mid table La Liga club?

[Sal333]

26 minutes ago, Macksam said:

Even better question, why would he entertain the idea of going to a mid table La Liga club?

And a team on the verge of bankruptcy. 

[Senorpopps]

I am going to offend a few people here and say David is not a world class player - he would not be good enough for Barcelona. He's got great instinct for position, is athletic and can finish, but his technical ability is no where close to Haaland and Vlahovic. He rarely ever scores phenomenal goals and instead relies on being fed in the right position and having a good ability to finish. I doubt he will be given the same amount of space in the top 4 leagues as he is given in Ligue 1, meaning he'll have to rely on a technical ability inferior to many other strikers (like Haaland, Mbappe, Vlahovic etc). TBH a mid-high table Spanish Team (think 6-10) is most appropriate for him at this point. But that's my two cents ... 

[jonovision]

1 minute ago, Senorpopps said:

I am going to offend a few people here and say David is not a world class player - he would not be good enough for Barcelona. He's got great instinct for position, is athletic and can finish, but his technical ability is no where close to Haaland and Vlahovic. He rarely ever scores phenomenal goals and instead relies on being fed in the right position and having a good ability to finish. I doubt he will be given the same amount of space in the top 4 leagues as he is given in Ligue 1, meaning he'll have to rely on a technical ability inferior to many other strikers (like Haaland, Mbappe, Vlahovic etc). TBH a mid-high table Spanish Team (think 6-10) is most appropriate for him at this point. But that's my two cents ... 

I would argue that he has one world class skill, which is making runs into the right areas. However, his current team is poor this year at providing service to these areas. One might argue that a better team would provide him with more opportunities, and he has proved clinical at every level (except, arguably, with Canada) at finishing his chances.

[Approve My Account Pls]

5 minutes ago, Senorpopps said:

I am going to offend a few people here and say David is not a world class player - he would not be good enough for Barcelona. He's got great instinct for position, is athletic and can finish, but his technical ability is no where close to Haaland and Vlahovic. He rarely ever scores phenomenal goals and instead relies on being fed in the right position and having a good ability to finish. I doubt he will be given the same amount of space in the top 4 leagues as he is given in Ligue 1, meaning he'll have to rely on a technical ability inferior to many other strikers (like Haaland, Mbappe, Vlahovic etc). TBH a mid-high table Spanish Team (think 6-10) is most appropriate for him at this point. But that's my two cents ... 

I wouldn't say you're wrong, but I think it's fair to say he's an unfinished product. Right now he's a very good young player, but I agree not yet world class - could his ceiling be world class put in the right environment? That's what all these teams are paying to find out. 

[dyslexic nam]

Yeah, I think most of us are pretty pragmatic about the areas in his game that still need a fair bit of work.  At least I have been.  He isn’t in he same class as a complete player like Haaland.  JD is a strong finisher, he has a great read of the game, and as noted, he make runs that seem to exploit space really well.  In the right system that is a deadly set of skills.  And if he continues to improve in the other areas where he isn’t as good, he will continue to move up the ranks.  

[Canuckistan2019]

It’s only arsenal fan boys pushing him to arsenal. The perfect teams for him is inter or real madrid. More so inter since they play with two strikers.

[sebdeserio]

38 minutes ago, Senorpopps said:

I am going to offend a few people here and say David is not a world class player - he would not be good enough for Barcelona. He's got great instinct for position, is athletic and can finish, but his technical ability is no where close to Haaland and Vlahovic. He rarely ever scores phenomenal goals and instead relies on being fed in the right position and having a good ability to finish. I doubt he will be given the same amount of space in the top 4 leagues as he is given in Ligue 1, meaning he'll have to rely on a technical ability inferior to many other strikers (like Haaland, Mbappe, Vlahovic etc). TBH a mid-high table Spanish Team (think 6-10) is most appropriate for him at this point. But that's my two cents ... 

He scored against Roma in the Europa League for Gent. He's scored twice against PSG, 4 against Marseille and at least a couple against Lyon, Monaco, Lens. He's scored 3 Champions League goals (including the one that got called back by VAR because the ball was barely out at half) in 6 games. All that in a setup that isn't ideal for his playstyle. His technical ability may not be the finished product at 22, but he's also only been in a professional club setting since 2018.

He may not be ready for Barca yet, but why would he downgrade or at best make a sideways move to a 6-10 La Liga team?

Was Inzaghi not good enough for Juve and Milan?

Edited January 27, 2022 by sebdeserio

[clamlinguine]

52 minutes ago, Senorpopps said:

I am going to offend a few people here and say David is not a world class player - he would not be good enough for Barcelona. He's got great instinct for position, is athletic and can finish, but his technical ability is no where close to Haaland and Vlahovic. He rarely ever scores phenomenal goals and instead relies on being fed in the right position and having a good ability to finish. I doubt he will be given the same amount of space in the top 4 leagues as he is given in Ligue 1, meaning he'll have to rely on a technical ability inferior to many other strikers (like Haaland, Mbappe, Vlahovic etc). TBH a mid-high table Spanish Team (think 6-10) is most appropriate for him at this point. But that's my two cents ... 

You could be right, but what I see presently is David being in position to score even more goals than he is now, but not getting the ball.

[Senorpopps]

46 minutes ago, Approve My Account Pls said:

I wouldn't say you're wrong, but I think it's fair to say he's an unfinished product. Right now he's a very good young player, but I agree not yet world class - could his ceiling be world class put in the right environment? That's what all these teams are paying to find out. 

Yah fair good point, maybe he is worth an Arsenal or Dortmund where you know he’ll get the chance to develop and not get pushed out if he has a few bad games, which can happen at Real or Juve

[Senorpopps]

2 minutes ago, clamlinguine said:

You could be right, but what I see presently is David being in position to score even more goals than he is now, but not getting the ball.

You could be right, I haven’t watched him these past few months so my opinion is more end of last year/beginning of this year. 

[archer21]

I think his passing ability is underrated as well. He’s very good at one-touch passing. When he gets in trouble is when he doesn’t have an option early and has to take too many touches to wait for someone to open up for him.

[frmr]

29 minutes ago, Canuckistan2019 said:

It’s only arsenal fan boys pushing him to arsenal. The perfect teams for him is inter or real madrid. More so inter since they play with two strikers.

I dunno about that. I'm far from being a gooner but they have a very young and talented team and David would fit right into that profile of player. Arsenal are still a massive club and historically have been consistently part of the big 4. Yes, they are currently looking a little rudderless, and I don't think Arteta is necessarily the right man for the job for them, but I think people could see why it could be a decent fit if they're able steady the ship a bit and get back into Europe. With such a young team, if Arteta can figure it out or if they get the right manager who can, they're only going to be moving up.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Senorpopps said:

I am going to offend a few people here and say David is not a world class player - he would not be good enough for Barcelona. He's got great instinct for position, is athletic and can finish, but his technical ability is no where close to Haaland and Vlahovic. He rarely ever scores phenomenal goals and instead relies on being fed in the right position and having a good ability to finish. I doubt he will be given the same amount of space in the top 4 leagues as he is given in Ligue 1, meaning he'll have to rely on a technical ability inferior to many other strikers (like Haaland, Mbappe, Vlahovic etc). TBH a mid-high table Spanish Team (think 6-10) is most appropriate for him at this point. But that's my two cents ... 

I'm of two minds on this.

The first is of agreement. David's technical ability is indeed inferior to world class strikers. 

The second is of ponderance. Is his technical ability really inferior? What do we even mean by "technical ability"? I feel it's a term that's become ambiguous but it deserves specification in this case. 

Here's my attempt: When we say David is inferior technically, I think what we are actually saying is that his touch can be loose. Let's further analyze this, are we actually talking "technique" here or concentration? I think it's the latter, quite honestly - which can obviously be improved upon. If you consider is body shape when receiving the ball, or consider his intention on that first or second touch, I see no problem.

The counter argument is that I see no brilliance either, just competence.

Perhaps we should then consider if his "technique" needs to be brilliant or just competent to be a world class striker.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Sal333 said:

And a team on the verge of bankruptcy. 

If you are going to quote certain people I have blocked for good reason, I won't answer you. 

But it doesn't help if you have no idea what you are posting about either.

[Unnamed Trialist]

To not quote or respond to anyone in particular, David is about as far from a Barça striker as you can imagine, all things considered. I am talking about Barça, BTW, the only team in Europe to always qualify for European competition since they were started in the late 50s, the only team that has never been mid-table ever. Just in case some people are confused by the weak year we are having.

That is not saying David does not have talent, or that he won't improve certain skills over time. It is a comment on how he plays and how we play. Many teams play in a certain way consistently and require certain things from players; and then there are teams that don't care, or depend on who happens to be coaching or running the club.

FCB tends to require certain things of players. Our greatest success as a club has had players like Eto'o or Suarez up high leading the line. Then there were freak cases like Romario, but at least he had pure dribble, could shake of multiple players and was a killer with half a step. He was lazy, did not defend, coasted, but was from an era when keepers did not have to be pressured. The other two were high intensity, pressured, had dribble, combined well, were good heading, had very hard shots, were skilled holding down a CB or even two to open up spaces for others; they could break down defenders on pure will, which is necessary when your team always has possession and is facing a tight low block defending. Of all those virtues David only has: pressures well, seems to have some skill on first touch.  What he's missing: often misses simple controls, is poor in the air, rarely scores from a hard shot, rarely scores from a further out than 10 yards, does not move that well off the ball. Will not put his butt up against a CB and fight it out as play develops behind him. He also tends to always lay back and look for the pass to the penalty spot, and not get in to the first post or deep for the tap in. He shies from the mix. 

Barça have never played with two strikers of a similar mode, as Lille does, and if we have a false 9 it has usually been someone from a wing or the middle coming in to play that role. No trainer has ever altered this, at least since the 80s, with any success. 

In this sense, Memphis Depay is not a Barça striker either, I said this to fellow fans mostly on the basis of watching French league last year, and have been proven right. Luuk de Jong, obviously not either. They are talking about bringing in Adama Traore, who I saw debut for our first team maybe 7 years ago, and he's not right either. We have Braithwaite, who is not even a first option for Denmark. Ansu Fati works, but is always falling injured and that is worrisome, and anyways is not a 9.

Morata, however much folks don't like his background, could be a very good fit.

I am a sworn enemy of Madrid and hate them, but I think David would be an excellent fit there. If you look at what Benzema does, what Jovic was supposed to do to help them out and hasn't, you can see that David would work well for them. 

[jonovision]

43 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I'm of two minds on this.

The first is of agreement. David's technical ability is indeed inferior to world class strikers. 

The second is of ponderance. Is his technical ability really inferior? What do we even mean by "technical ability"? I feel it's a term that's become ambiguous but it deserves specification in this case. 

Here's my attempt: When we say David is inferior technically, I think what we are actually saying is that his touch can be loose. Let's further analyze this, are we actually talking "technique" here or concentration? I think it's the latter, quite honestly - which can obviously be improved upon. If you consider is body shape when receiving the ball, or consider his intention on that first or second touch, I see no problem.

The counter argument is that I see no brilliance either, just competence.

Perhaps we should then consider if his "technique" needs to be brilliant or just competent to be a world class striker.

I think another issue is that "world class striker" is a term without a real definition. Is it the top 4 or 5 players at that position in the world? Then David is not world class. Is it someone good enough to start on a good team in a top 5 league? Then he already is. Is it someone good enough to start for a top 3 or team in a top 4 league? Then it would be up for debate, and what happens in the next year or so will go a long way towards deciding the question, for whatever it's worth. 

[Mattd97]

I want Barcelona to sign him so badly now 

[sebdeserio]

23 minutes ago, jonovision said:

I think another issue is that "world class striker" is a term without a real definition. Is it the top 4 or 5 players at that position in the world? Then David is not world class. Is it someone good enough to start on a good team in a top 5 league? Then he already is. Is it someone good enough to start for a top 3 or team in a top 4 league? Then it would be up for debate, and what happens in the next year or so will go a long way towards deciding the question, for whatever it's worth. 

IMO world class means the player could slot in to any team in the world and arguably make them better. So for example Davies is a world class left back, Navas was a world class keeper but is now probably in the tier under that. World class strikers would be Benzema, Haaland, Lewandowski and Mbappe.

[Unnamed Trialist]

17 minutes ago, sebdeserio said:

IMO world class means the player could slot in to any team in the world and arguably make them better. So for example Davies is a world class left back, Navas was a world class keeper but is now probably in the tier under that. World class strikers would be Benzema, Haaland, Lewandowski and Mbappe.

I never said he wasn't a "world-class striker", because that is meaningless. 

Unless folks are arguing that it is logical for Norway, a nation with one of the only world-class strikers, to not be going to Qatar. Haaland has not made a difference for his nation, which happens to have some other good players. Ibra, in contrast, was definitive player for his nation on many occasions and they still could qualify.

England is IMO a top 5-6 team in the world right now (only say this as once you get to a WC quarter finals it is all pretty even) but I am not sure exactly which of the players is hands down "world-class". You don't need such players, you need players that work for you. 

[Sal333]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

If you are going to quote certain people I have blocked for good reason, I won't answer you. 

But it doesn't help if you have no idea what you are posting about either.

You realize your second sentence contradicts your first. Come to think of it, your first sentence contradicts itself.

Also, how the hell am I suppose to know who the fuck you blocked? Did you send a memo to everyone on this board but me?