Jonathan David

[Kadenge]

20 minutes ago, Obinna said:

If David scored more Copa goals this would be case closed, but since he didn't it opens the door for Pulisic. Serie A and Milan are bigger than Ligue 1 and Lille. The numbers Pulisic put up as a winger are arguably as impressive David's numbers as a 9. That's what concerns me for David's case. 

Maybe a strong November will tip the scale for him.....

don't disagree with the bolded part but only 2 players scored more goals at Copa. Lautaro with 5 and Rondon with 3 vs David at 2.  He was tied with players like Luis Diaz, Darwin Nunez, Alvarez, Vini Jnr, Araujo etc. That's some high level company and he did that playing in a more withdrawn position. He scored 50% of the 4 goals by Canada at Copa. I think that's pretty impressive.

[Obinna]

14 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

don't disagree with the bolded part but only 2 players scored more goals at Copa. Lautaro with 5 and Rondon with 3 vs David at 2.  He was tied with players like Luis Diaz, Darwin Nunez, Alvarez, Vini Jnr, Araujo etc. That's some high level company and he did that playing in a more withdrawn position. He scored 50% of the 4 goals by Canada at Copa. I think that's pretty impressive.

Me too. I just think a statement was required. Being the lead scorer of Copa America would have been the statement to push him clear of Pulisic given how close they are otherwise (as I laid out). Being tied with those other players is impressive for a Canadian, but one could ignore the passport and consider it the minimum expectation for a player like him at a tournament like this. 

[ahmedou]

David is competing with the best scorers in the world in 2024. With Mbappe. With Kane. With Haaland. With Vinicius Jr. With Lewandowski. With Gyökeres. With Palmer. With Sørloth. With etc.

Copa America 2024 semi-finalist.

Qualified to the Champions League 2024 and scoring against the best European teams in the world.

That's enough to me!

[An Observer]

8 hours ago, Cheeta said:

Think the Copa is going to weight heavy in the memory.

You mean Pulisic acting like a baby and whining to the refs all the time…

[narduch]

Starting v Monaco.

Its on Fubo and BeIn

[Sal333]

17 hours ago, An Observer said:

You mean Pulisic acting like a baby and whining to the refs all the time…

I bet you, you couldn't do it.

It takes a lot of shameless narcissism to pull it off.

Edited Friday at 06:38 PM by Sal333

[ahmedou]

57 minutes ago, narduch said:

Starting v Monaco.

Its on Fubo and BeIn

Captain Davidou 👍

[Unnamed Trialist]

Been watching 2nd half. Up a man and they're incapable of creating anything interesting, they're totally inept. The level is exasperating, and Monaco is just as effective a man down. 

As good as Ligue 1 is supposed to be the football quality is poor and the basic movement and passing is grade school. 

[Lansdude]

So tired of watching Lille!

[Unnamed Trialist]

22 minutes ago, Lansdude said:

So tired of watching Lille!

Ligue 1 is full of really limited players who are only there for some notion of physical prowess, but blow the most basic passes, movements, positional situations. Like that left back they have, pathetic. Watching this Lille, as most Lilles, around David, is just maddening. 

They guy has spent 5 years asking for a simple return ball, or a pass to a certain spot, or for a teammate to be in a certain place, and they are not capable. His patience is amazing; not one coach has cared in the least to give him the sort of teammate that he needs, they don't care.

The day he goes to a good team where they play it right he'll shine all the more. I don't say he'll score more as the rivals will be better too. But we'll be watching proper football matches and I've no doubt he'll thrive in a more demanding environment, Spain, Italy, England, does not matter. 

Edited Friday at 09:03 PM by Unnamed Trialist

[InglewoodJack]

1 shot on goal for JD playing up a man?

I take back EVERY nice thing I said about how Lille a few weeks ago.

[beachesl]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

1 shot on goal for JD playing up a man?

I take back EVERY nice thing I said about how Lille a few weeks ago.

JD did not get the shot on  goal during the man advantage, the only shot on goal Lille got in the whole match. The shot on goal was against the run of play at about 20" in the first half without advantage on an unexpected counter on a bounce off a Monaco player (it was in no way assisted to him, it just trickled to him). Not only was it the only shot on  goal for Lille, it was the only TOUCH in the Monaco goal area for Lille in the whole first half. JD got NO service, and was basically busy chasing the Monaco defenders and midfielders by himself . Monaco was totally dominant, even shorthanded, and should  have won 5-0,but it was the Lille goalkeeper Chevalier who continually  rescued them, the MOTM for sure. I was able to watch the match live on basic  cable here in Argentina. The Lille outfield players looked confused and exhausted from the very beginning. He has got to go someplace where he can get some half-decent service. Only a fantastic false 9 or an advanced midfielder could possibly have scored for Lille, not a dedicated frontman.

No way Lille makes Europe this year, certainly not the Champions league.

 

Edited Friday at 10:34 PM by beachesl

[ahmedou]

3 hours ago, Lansdude said:

So tired of watching Lille!

We say that since 2020. Since 5 years. But we still continue to watch Lille because of David.

It's a relation of "je t'aime moi non plus" between Canadians and Lille.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

Some pretty over the top comments about the game.

 

Having watched it all I can say:

1) It was an away game against the league leaders.

2) A lot of players looked tired - including, unfortunately, David with his passing.  Be nice if they could be as ampped as they were against Real Madrid every game but unfortunately that's not football in real life.  

[ahmedou]

Players with the Most Goal Contributions in 2024:

1) Kylian Mbappé: 45

2) Harry Kane: 44

3) Jonathan David/Cole Palmer: 40

[Unnamed Trialist]

Lots of new articles on Jono in the lead up to the Atleti match Wednesday. Most interesting is that he's asking for 6 million euros after taxes, when now he's at just over 2.  I find that low even, since the clubs interested could pay more, at Barça that's low, 50% tax rate. 

Tons of minor media outlets who ape the real ones saying stuff about Atlético's interest. This or that matchup. But truth is, a big game in Madrid will raise his profile greatly. 

Imo the most important Bruges matches to heighten interest in Tajon were also the 2 vs Atletico de Madrid. 

Edited yesterday at 07:08 AM by Unnamed Trialist

[Snowcrash]

4 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Lots of new articles on Jono in the lead up to the Atleti match tomorrow. Most interesting is that he's asking for 6 million euros after taxes, when now he's at just over 2.  I find that low even, since the clubs interested could pay more, at Barça that's low, 50% tax rate. 

Tons of minor media outlets who ape the real ones saying stuff about Atlético's interest. This or that matchup. But truth is, a big game in Madrid with raise his profile greatly. 

Imo the most important Bruges matches to heighten interest in Tajon were also the 2 vs Atletico de Madrid. 

Because he's leaving Lille on a free, wouldn't he get a significant signing bonus equal to a good chunk of what the buying team would have had to pay Lille otherwise?

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

2 hours ago, Snowcrash said:

Because he's leaving Lille on a free, wouldn't he get a significant signing bonus equal to a good chunk of what the buying team would have had to pay Lille otherwise?

Really depends on whether the team wants to pay that.  They don't have to.

If there are actually multiple offers, the chances of a decent signing bonus increases, of course.  

 

We get silly season a bit early this year. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, Snowcrash said:

Because he's leaving Lille on a free, wouldn't he get a significant signing bonus equal to a good chunk of what the buying team would have had to pay Lille otherwise?

Exactly. Even the equivalent of 2-4 million a contract year. It'll come into play for sure because there'll be a bidding process. 

I find the salary aspirations low though. A striker at Barcelona with his experience could garner over 15 million euros gross, would make 7-8 clear. Davies has apparently asked for over 20… which Madrid could pay, plus the signing bonus. 

Lewandowski is apparently making over 30 million gross this season. 

Edited yesterday at 05:40 AM by Unnamed Trialist

[InglewoodJack]

7 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Exactly. Even the equivalent of 2-4 million a contract year. It'll come into play for sure because there'll be a bidding process. 

I find the salary aspirations low though. A striker at Barcelona with his experience could garner over 15 million euros gross, would make 7-8 clear. Davies has apparently asked for over 20… which Madrid could pay, plus the signing bonus. 

Lewandowski is apparently making over 30 million gross this season. 

I believe Julian Alvarez makes about 6 or 7 million, gross, Griezmann is on about €13M, I think Connor Gallagher is somewhere in the middle. Even Jude Bellingham I believe is in about €20M gross which puts him around €10M net, and I don’t think that clubs will pay Jonathan David anywhere near what Jude is earning. 
 

David, as good as he is, comes with approximately zero marketing value- he’s not going to be a player who comes in and has his shirt sold out before the first match or who can get fans really excited- until he starts playing of course- so that will lower his contract value significantly I would think. Davies, for all the dragging through the mud that’s happened with Bayern, is still a player with many young fans who would flock to buy his Real Madrid shirt, he would instantly be a recognizable celebrity in Madrid. That’s what is going to push his salary demands higher because you are getting more than a good player with that. 
 

David earning €6M net is obviously a lot, but the big plan for him should be to lock in that contract, play well, score a few memorable World Cup goals, and in 2027, he’s playing for a champions league contender earning €10M as a top striker in the world. We’ve bothered so long with this JD transfer, but the reality is this might not even be his last stop before he peaks. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

2 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

I believe Julian Alvarez makes about 6 or 7 million, gross, Griezmann is on about €13M, I think Connor Gallagher is somewhere in the middle. Even Jude Bellingham I believe is in about €20M gross which puts him around €10M net, and I don’t think that clubs will pay Jonathan David anywhere near what Jude is earning. 
 

David, as good as he is, comes with approximately zero marketing value- he’s not going to be a player who comes in and has his shirt sold out before the first match or who can get fans really excited- until he starts playing of course- so that will lower his contract value significantly I would think. Davies, for all the dragging through the mud that’s happened with Bayern, is still a player with many young fans who would flock to buy his Real Madrid shirt, he would instantly be a recognizable celebrity in Madrid. That’s what is going to push his salary demands higher because you are getting more than a good player with that. 
 

David earning €6M net is obviously a lot, but the big plan for him should be to lock in that contract, play well, score a few memorable World Cup goals, and in 2027, he’s playing for a champions league contender earning €10M as a top striker in the world. We’ve bothered so long with this JD transfer, but the reality is this might not even be his last stop before he peaks. 

On the marketing aspect - David has not done enough on the biggest, biggest stage quite yet.

Scoring a very composed penalty in a league stage match against one of the biggest teams in the world is one thing but it is not quite (like Davies) shutdowning some of the other up and coming world stars (at the time), also against a big team, but in a knockout out match, after which his team won the whole Champions League.

 

 

That all said, staying  with the religous theme of the board as of late - I love that we are taking some journo's speculation about salary as gospel, a number of months out from any resolution.

Remember Davies was 100% gone to Madrid this summer according to some journalists and their followers on here.

 

 

But here's hoping that David can continue to be solid or better in the Champions League going forward and get a deal where he will get paid but also play every week at a high level. 

Edited 22 hours ago by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

On the marketing aspect - David has not done enough on the biggest, biggest stage quite yet.

Scoring a very composed penalty in a league stage match against one of the biggest teams in the world is one thing but it is not quite (like Davies) shutdowning some of the other up and coming world stars (at the time), also against a big team, but in a knockout out match, after which his team won the whole Champions League.

 

 

That all said, staying  with the religous theme of the board as of late - I love that we are taking some journo's speculation about salary as gospel, a number of months out from any resolution.

Remember Davies was 100% gone to Madrid this summer according to some journalists and their followers on here.

 

 

But here's hoping that David can continue to be solid or better in the Champions League going forward and get a deal where he will get paid but also play every week at a high level. 

Even beyond his lack of big game performances (though the showing vs. Real Madrid is an excellent start to fight that narrative), I think it's also a case of David having no personal brand or significant following that his next club could leverage, so you're really only paying for his goals. To keep things with Atletico, one example to compare him to would be Memphis Depay who I believe was on somewhere around 5-6M net if the public numbers are to be trusted. David is better, but Memphis is a brand, he sells kits, merch, shoes, you can put him on a billboard and he's an instant celebrity wherever he plays. With David, you are only paying for his goals, and not only that, but the reality is that as a Canadian player, his biggest off the field strength is to help a club grow their reputation in Canada which isn't exactly as valuable to a club as an American, a Brazilian, so on.  

As you mention, all of this is pure speculation, I doubt he ends up at Atletico, and I doubt that the figures that we're bandying around are accurate. I just think that if we do find out what David will make at his next club, it'll be a lot less than we anticipate. Seems only pre-built household names are taking home 9-figures net per year. Lewy isn't making 30 a year because he scores a lot, he is earning that because he's probably one of the 10 biggest names in european sports over the last decade. Goals surely help though. 

[A Different Perspective]

His brand is that he is “cool as ice” or the “iceman” which may not be warranting a top price as you point out - but I sense he’s happy being who he is - it works for him. Also he was a big game player against PSG and others on their run to Lille Ligue 1 Championship season.  Finally this board has consistently pointed out his lack of creative service - it’s not like in big games he misses on all these great scoring chances from excellent service.  
 

 

[InglewoodJack]

13 minutes ago, A Different Perspective said:

His brand is that he is “cool as ice” or the “iceman” which may not be warranting a top price as you point out - but I sense he’s happy being who he is - it works for him. Also he was a big game player against PSG and others on their run to Lille Ligue 1 Championship season.  Finally this board has consistently pointed out his lack of creative service - it’s not like in big games he misses on all these great scoring chances from excellent service.  
 

 

Yeah I think how he markets himself is fine, he’s just not a guy who kids have posters on their walls for or collect shirts for (yet), and that stuff helps drive your value up. Wait until he reproduces his France numbers in Spain or England and when his next contract comes up, he’ll get what he deserves.

[A Different Perspective]

32 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Yeah I think how he markets himself is fine, he’s just not a guy who kids have posters on their walls for or collect shirts for (yet), and that stuff helps drive your value up. Wait until he reproduces his France numbers in Spain or England and when his next contract comes up, he’ll get what he deserves.

Agreed.

interestingly, I live by a small park and a couple years back there’s two you kids who play soccer and while walking my dog  have heard the one kid shoot on the soccer net and then yell “David” which made me pause and say whose your favourite player and and he said, “Jonathan David” - I gave the thumbs up and kept walking thinking how surreal and fantastic to seeing kids “playing soccer not road hockey” and more importantly, hear kids having Canadian soccer heroes - something unheard of even five years earlier - at least in my smaller town.