Jonathan David

[InglewoodJack]

I think you can add Simon Colyn to that list too. I don’t think he’s PSV bound next season, but he should land somewhere nice, and being only 20, he’ll be hitting his prime around next World Cup. If he ends up in Belgium for example, I think he automatically jumps to like 4th or 5th in the depth chart.

[jonovision]

I'd like to see Ugbo get a few starts for us in the next year. Not because I think he's good - I don't, particularly. I'd just like to be able to set an appropriate level of expectation. Mine is this: I doubt he ever becomes as useful a player for us as Cavallini has been. I've yet to really see which qualities he really possesses. But I'd like to be proven wrong.

[InglewoodJack]

2 minutes ago, jonovision said:

I'd like to see Ugbo get a few starts for us in the next year. Not because I think he's good - I don't, particularly. I'd just like to be able to set an appropriate level of expectation. Mine is this: I doubt he ever becomes as useful a player for us as Cavallini has been. I've yet to really see which qualities he really possesses. But I'd like to be proven wrong.

I don’t think you can evaluate a player based on some international apps, especially lower stakes one. I would watch his games at Troyes. Having watched him this year and last, he feels to me like a diet Jonathan David. When he’s on, he’s so on, but his issue is he’s off quite often. Where with JD you know that slump and all he’s probably good for at least 15 goals per season, Ugbo might go scoreless for like 20 games and find himself parked on the bench, like he currently is at Troyes.

[CanadaFan123]

Just now, InglewoodJack said:

I don’t think you can evaluate a player based on some international apps, especially lower stakes one. I would watch his games at Troyes. Having watched him this year and last, he feels to me like a diet Jonathan David. When he’s on, he’s so on, but his issue is he’s off quite often. Where with JD you know that slump and all he’s probably good for at least 15 goals per season, Ugbo might go scoreless for like 20 games and find himself parked on the bench, like he currently is at Troyes.

The difference is that David can play a variety of roles if he’s off. Ugbo seems to just be a 9, which isn’t particularly useful at the international level outside of a super sub. 

[InglewoodJack]

7 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

The difference is that David can play a variety of roles if he’s off. Ugbo seems to just be a 9, which isn’t particularly useful at the international level outside of a super sub. 

Hence the diet JD. He has similar flaws, but David is 10x the player, no doubt.

[Shway]

2 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

Ugbo.  Jebbison if he commits (and I think he ultimately will).  

Another possibility for the future is Brym - and hopefully CPL will have graduated some striking talent that can impact the national team (Pepple, Pacius, De Rosario, etc).  
 

 

1 hour ago, El Hombre said:

Other possibilities in addition to Ugbo and Jebbison:

Jacen Russell-Rowe - I'm really excited to see what he does this upcoming season.  Really hoping he stays in MLS.
Richie Ennin - He usually plays wide left, but he might be able to fill this role.
Lowell Wright - I'm nervous about the amount of playing time he'll get with VWFC, but I thought he looked really good with the U20 team.

None are ready now but hopefully soon.

After that, there are a bunch of prospects that would need to move up a level or two over the next 2 years to be competing for a spot in addition to Pepple, Pacius, De Rosario mentioned above:

Jules-Anthony Vilsaint
Ronan Kratt
Hugo Mbongue
Tiago Coimbra
Marcus Caldeira

No idea if any of those five will hit but have heard good things about all of them.

I think we really need a big body that can win some balls in the air to play with David.  Really hoping that one of these guys turns into that.

While I agree, you guys are listing off prospects no? Because none of these guys your "relying" on to score today or moving David into the 10 to compensate. 

Of both lists, only Jebbo could make it into the squad today....and that's only for one specific reason at the moment.

So let's do that style list with the CMs then too...

Victor Loturi
Justin Smith
Jayden Nelson
Matthieu Choiniere
Kosi Thompson
Lucas Dias
Sean Rea

Are any of these guys in the near months going to push out the likes of Kaye, Piette, Wotherspoon? 
This is in addition to having CMs already in the program like the young Kone and Fraser.

So as much as I like the idea of JoDa playing in the hole behind a striker, I don't think it changes much other then us deploying a 3-5-1-1. Because I;m not taking off any of our midfielders to slot him in there, and have Ike and Larin in front.

[VinceA]

26 minutes ago, Shway said:

 

While I agree, you guys are listing off prospects no? Because none of these guys your "relying" on to score today or moving David into the 10 to compensate. 

Of both lists, only Jebbo could make it into the squad today....and that's only for one specific reason at the moment.

So let's do that style list with the CMs then too...

Victor Loturi
Justin Smith
Jayden Nelson
Matthieu Choiniere
Kosi Thompson
Lucas Dias
Sean Rea

Are any of these guys in the near months going to push out the likes of Kaye, Piette, Wotherspoon? 
This is in addition to having CMs already in the program like the young Kone and Fraser.

So as much as I like the idea of JoDa playing in the hole behind a striker, I don't think it changes much other then us deploying a 3-5-1-1. Because I;m not taking off any of our midfielders to slot him in there, and have Ike and Larin in front.

Dias is puzzling. Don't know if he's anywhere close to the Sporting team and he turns 20 next year. He should probably go on loan if he's not going to be debuting for the first team. If he's loaned to a Primeira club and plays I think he enters the call-up convo.

Edited December 6, 2022 by VinceA

[El Hombre]

8 minutes ago, Shway said:

 

While I agree, you guys are listing off prospects no? Because none of these guys your "relying" on to score today or moving David into the 10 to compensate. 

Of both lists, only Jebbo could make it into the squad today....and that's only for one specific reason at the moment.

So let's do that style list with the CMs then too...

Victor Loturi
Justin Smith
Jayden Nelson
Matthieu Choiniere
Kosi Thompson
Lucas Dias
Sean Rea

Are any of these guys in the near months going to push out the likes of Kaye, Piette, Wotherspoon? 
This is in addition to having CMs already in the program like the young Kone and Fraser.

So as much as I like the idea of JoDa playing in the hole behind a striker, I don't think it changes much other then us deploying a 3-5-1-1. Because I;m not taking off any of our midfielders to slot him in there, and have Ike and Larin in front.

I guess I was confused about the question.  Yes, I listed prospects because if anyone could crack the squad right now, they would've.  If you want to know who we have outside of David and Larin up front, then you have to include Cavallini (who will still be able to do a job for another year) and why look past Ugbo who is playing in a top 5 league?

I guess I was looking at it from the sense of "Who could have a Kone-like breakout in the near future" and those were the names I came up with.  But really, having 4 decent options (David, Larin, Cavallini, Ugbo) for two positions right now and then hoping for one or two of eight prospects to eventually replace those that age out, seems like a decent situation.  

As for CM, if you're asking who might be able to replace them today?  None of them.  However, I think Choiniere is closest.  A strong season with Montreal would do wonders for him.  After that I see Loturi potentially playing in the Gold Cup if he can keep up his recent form.  Finally, this summer will be too soon, but if Nelson does make a move in January, I could see him pushing for a spot next fall.

The rest are prospects so if you are talking about those, you'd have to include the likes of Pecile, Johnston, Pelligrino, Henry, Zouhir, B. Paton, Priso, Saliba....

I would agree with your formation.  I would never have David, Larin and Ugbo all on the pitch at the same time.  It would be a target striker with David just behind them.

[dyslexic nam]

5 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

I guess I was confused about the question.  Yes, I listed prospects because if anyone could crack the squad right now, they would've.  If you want to know who we have outside of David and Larin up front, then you have to include Cavallini (who will still be able to do a job for another year) and why look past Ugbo who is playing in a top 5 league?

I guess I was looking at it from the sense of "Who could have a Kone-like breakout in the near future" and those were the names I came up with.  But really, having 4 decent options (David, Larin, Cavallini, Ugbo) for two positions right now and then hoping for one or two of eight prospects to eventually replace those that age out, seems like a decent situation.  

As for CM, if you're asking who might be able to replace them today?  None of them.  However, I think Choiniere is closest.  A strong season with Montreal would do wonders for him.  After that I see Loturi potentially playing in the Gold Cup if he can keep up his recent form.  Finally, this summer will be too soon, but if Nelson does make a move in January, I could see him pushing for a spot next fall.

The rest are prospects so if you are talking about those, you'd have to include the likes of Pecile, Johnston, Pelligrino, Henry, Zouhir, B. Paton, Priso, Saliba....

I would agree with your formation.  I would never have David, Larin and Ugbo all on the pitch at the same time.  It would be a target striker with David just behind them.

I was in the same boat thinking about future replacements. If the questions is just talking about our current striker depth you can’t get a better indicator than the guys we took to the WC - David, Larin, Cab and Ugbo.   After that you are probably into Akinola and Brym.   

[Aird25]

34 minutes ago, Shway said:

 

While I agree, you guys are listing off prospects no? Because none of these guys your "relying" on to score today or moving David into the 10 to compensate. 

Of both lists, only Jebbo could make it into the squad today....and that's only for one specific reason at the moment.

So let's do that style list with the CMs then too...

Victor Loturi
Justin Smith
Jayden Nelson
Matthieu Choiniere
Kosi Thompson
Lucas Dias
Sean Rea

Are any of these guys in the near months going to push out the likes of Kaye, Piette, Wotherspoon? 
This is in addition to having CMs already in the program like the young Kone and Fraser.

So as much as I like the idea of JoDa playing in the hole behind a striker, I don't think it changes much other then us deploying a 3-5-1-1. Because I;m not taking off any of our midfielders to slot him in there, and have Ike and Larin in front.

I don't really get your point. We've had a relatively stable squad leading up to World Cup, but going forward we'll likely see some new players given a shot. Thankfully, we do have options all over the pitch, but very few are proven at a high enough level to likely push more established players out at this point. I'm not convinced that we're particularly flush in any position, compared to others. We don't exactly have an abundance of players in top leagues, and many of our best prospects are still quite young

[Shway]

I initially responded to this.....

On 12/4/2022 at 1:37 PM, Ansem said:

Something I wish Herdman did with David, manage him like Gent used to do. David was actually an excellent attacking midfielder who became good as a striker but Gent would swap him position when he went into droughts.

My point is that he's an excellent playmaker and we have attacking depth, would be worth revisiting that for the National Team looking at our lack of midfielder depth 

and I said this......

3 hours ago, Shway said:

We talk a lot about CM, and CB lacking depth….but what about ST depth?

Whos next after Larin(28) and David?

Akinola? 😳

If reference to "we have attacking depth"....
I cynically said Akinola, ignoring Ugbo who is a mention but not a threat and neither is Cavallini.

@dyslexic nam and @El Hombre took my response to the initial quote out of context and were mentioning prospects.
We have prospects in every position imo. 

30 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

I don't really get your point. We've had a relatively stable squad leading up to World Cup, but going forward we'll likely see some new players given a shot. Thankfully, we do have options all over the pitch, but very few are proven at a high enough level to likely push more established players out at this point. I'm not convinced that we're particularly flush in any position, compared to others. We don't exactly have an abundance of players in top leagues, and many of our best prospects are still quite young

So you're sort of saying what I'm saying in the sense that we can't afford to move David into a 10 as it would take any "real" quality that we have up top. Ugbo is still unproven, and Cavallini (although I love the guy) is not fit anymore (pun intended) to lead the line.

[Razcal]

I'm surprised league 1 is back to playing before the WC has finished.

[Aird25]

6 minutes ago, Shway said:

So you're sort of saying what I'm saying in the sense that we can't afford to move David into a 10 as it would take any "real" quality that we have up top. Ugbo is still unproven, and Cavallini (although I love the guy) is not fit anymore (pun intended) to lead the line.

Not at all. I think David is better playing behind a target man, and I think Davies is better attacking from a deeper position. I don't think we've done particularly well at placing our best player in positions where they are likely to succeed or be most effective. My preferred starting XI would probably include Larin or Cavallini as a target man. They can both do that job, and I don't think either David or Davies thrives there, but we do have some flexibility in that regard

[Shway]

1 minute ago, Aird25 said:

Not at all. I think David is better playing behind a target man, and I think Davies is better attacking from a deeper position. I don't think we've done particularly well at placing our best player in positions where they are likely to succeed or be most effective. My preferred starting XI would probably include Larin or Cavallini as a target man. They can both do that job, and I don't think either David or Davies thrives there, but we do have some flexibility in that regard

My starting line wouldn't have Davies from deeper but in a front 3 Davies - David- Buchanan. (Specifically for the World Cup, Concacaf is different as teams are better equip than us. It makes no sense for Davies to have 4 guys in front of him that he thinks he can take on. 

I said from September or October that we need to play to our strengths. We should've setup better defensively to abosrb and atacks, and to allow our best players to explode with the speed on the counter attack ala Conte ball is what I specifically said.  

David being Harry Kane, dropping in to recieve or hold up, while spraying outwide to Davies or Buchanan who would have 2 guys at the most in front of them. 

Larin/Cavallini as target men work in Concacaf. As we saw on the grand stage, they don't.
 

[dyslexic nam]

7 minutes ago, Shway said:

Larin/Cavallini as target men work in Concacaf. As we saw on the grand stage, they don't.
 

Did we see that?  It isn’t really how we have lined up at the WC when David is on the pitch.   

[Aird25]

11 minutes ago, Shway said:

My starting line wouldn't have Davies from deeper but in a front 3 Davies - David- Buchanan. (Specifically for the World Cup, Concacaf is different as teams are better equip than us. It makes no sense for Davies to have 4 guys in front of him that he thinks he can take on. 

I said from September or October that we need to play to our strengths. We should've setup better defensively to abosrb and atacks, and to allow our best players to explode with the speed on the counter attack ala Conte ball is what I specifically said.  

David being Harry Kane, dropping in to recieve or hold up, while spraying outwide to Davies or Buchanan who would have 2 guys at the most in front of them. 

Larin/Cavallini as target men work in Concacaf. As we saw on the grand stage, they don't.
 

I don't think we've been reading the same story

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

28 minutes ago, Shway said:

My starting line wouldn't have Davies from deeper but in a front 3 Davies - David- Buchanan. (Specifically for the World Cup, Concacaf is different as teams are better equip than us. It makes no sense for Davies to have 4 guys in front of him that he thinks he can take on. 

I said from September or October that we need to play to our strengths. We should've setup better defensively to abosrb and atacks, and to allow our best players to explode with the speed on the counter attack ala Conte ball is what I specifically said.  

David being Harry Kane, dropping in to recieve or hold up, while spraying outwide to Davies or Buchanan who would have 2 guys at the most in front of them. 

Larin/Cavallini as target men work in Concacaf. As we saw on the grand stage, they don't.
 

Cavallini is the proto-typical target man but just isn't up to the level of starting at a high level. 

Larin isn't a great target man a lot of the time.  He is a finisher with a big body but his touch in the build-up has been lacking for club and country - from what I have seen. 

Ideally you play 433 with Buchanan, David and Davies.  I put them in that order because I want them cutting onto their strong foot to shoot and pass.  This it what you see a lot at Lille with David and an attacking three.  Either picking up garbage from shots or getting the pass on the ground.  Whereas crossing - easier if you are on your strong side - is not how you best find him. 

However, that all assume we have two big and strong centre backs going forward to be able to play a back 4.

The other ideal is 3-5-1-1 with David behind a target man.  But we need that target man. 

Edited December 6, 2022 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[El Hombre]

All I'm getting out of this conversation is confirmation that Rob Friend was indeed ahead of his time.

Edited December 6, 2022 by El Hombre

[Sal333]

4 hours ago, jonovision said:

I'd like to see Ugbo get a few starts for us in the next year. Not because I think he's good - I don't, particularly. I'd just like to be able to set an appropriate level of expectation. Mine is this: I doubt he ever becomes as useful a player for us as Cavallini has been. I've yet to really see which qualities he really possesses. But I'd like to be proven wrong.

Get married!

[RS]

6 hours ago, Razcal said:

I'm surprised league 1 is back to playing before the WC has finished.

It's not. Games resume Dec. 28.

[SoCalTransport]

12 hours ago, El Hombre said:

All I'm getting out of this conversation is confirmation that Rob Friend was indeed ahead of his time.

I was a big Ali Gerba fan.

[InglewoodJack]

Potential Canada on Canada matchup for Lille’s cup game against Troyes:

 

[grigorio]

9 hours ago, SoCalTransport said:

I was a big Ali Gerba fan.

I need the Ali Gerba story one day. Guy scored buckets of goals everywhere he went (except TFC) and would've been Canada's all time leading scorer if it were not for retiring at 30 for some reason. 

[SoCalTransport]

32 minutes ago, grigorio said:

I need the Ali Gerba story one day. Guy scored buckets of goals everywhere he went (except TFC) and would've been Canada's all time leading scorer if it were not for retiring at 30 for some reason. 

Remember when he played for TFC, he looked like a tank, he was a big dude.

[dyslexic nam]

Interesting to see our guys in all sorts of  ads. JD just tried to get me to buy Crackerbarrel cheese.