Herdman new head coach

[SF]

3 hours ago, Bigandy said:

If only this agreement was announced earlier.... like in 2018 when it was announced on social media and CSA website.... or perhaps through the financial statements released every year.... or perhaps through the players approaching CSA about this, if they cared..... unfortunately the players only seem to care when they realize they may get a bigger payday. 

Was is announced? A quick look through the 2022 audited financial statements shows good disclosure on the CSB transaction.  The 2021 audited financial statements appear to be silent on the matter.  A google search doesn't yield audited statements prior to 2021, but I would wager the disclosures look more like 2021 than 2022 (when the microscope was shining). 

I don't dispute the suggestion that the players should be more switched on to these things (or have representatives that are), but it's not clear to me the CSA has been especially proactive in disclosing this transaction. 

[Bigandy]

26 minutes ago, SF said:

Was is announced? A quick look through the 2022 audited financial statements shows good disclosure on the CSB transaction.  The 2021 audited financial statements appear to be silent on the matter.  A google search doesn't yield audited statements prior to 2021, but I would wager the disclosures look more like 2021 than 2022 (when the microscope was shining). 

I don't dispute the suggestion that the players should be more switched on to these things (or have representatives that are), but it's not clear to me the CSA has been especially proactive in disclosing this transaction. 

Good points. Not all the finer details were announced, but there are avenues to look into this if someone actually cared about the program in 2018, which is my point. 

The financial statements are readily available. Ive looked through them numerous times via google search. 
Theres some assumptions that go on. 
-CSA announce 10 year deal with all the rights going to CSB. That is 100% announced. 
- the financial statements show an increase of 3-4million from pre to post CSB deal. 
-therefore the rights were worth 3-4mil. 

Sure, the CSA could have had better accounting details but it wasnt illegal what they did. They could have announced more details on a deal with a private company.... theres some ethical concerns with sharing details like that though. Most details of private deals are not made public. 

At the end of the day, you can 100% nitpick how the CSA chose to announce these details but no one cared as this was a great deal on paper in 2018. The second the men have a chance to make some money is when they started to care. 

This all begs the question, how much transparency on details is required (assuming above and beyond legal requirements), without anyone asking for details, on business dealings. 

Lets look at the CIBC deal with CSA.... Do we have every single detail, no. Should we have every detail? Is this a good or bad deal beacuse of "transparency"? Or do we only care about transparency when the players want more personal cash..... 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Bigandy

[Kent]

3 hours ago, Kadenge said:

So are we going to get an early Christmas present?....The CSA hires a capable General Secretary, with sound business experience and hopefully a passion for the game , who will sort this mess out. 🙂

Sure, we can have that as an early Christmas present, as long as you aren't picky about which Christmas.

[masster]

Eustaquio disagrees with Herdman:
https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/article/eustaquio-diplomatically-disagrees-with-herdmans-assessment-of-canadian-men/

[dyslexic nam]

23 minutes ago, masster said:

Eustaquio disagrees with Herdman:
https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/article/eustaquio-diplomatically-disagrees-with-herdmans-assessment-of-canadian-men/

Sounds like Captain material to me.  Just sayin.  

[Shway]

2 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

Sounds like Captain material to me.  Just sayin.  

He didn't say much? What did he disagree with the "we" part?

To us fans, it very much so seemed like a lot of "Me" was going on before and for the coach to say it...I don't know I'm with JH on this. It's obvious Staq isn't going to say yes it's true!....if he did, then for me I would say it's captain material. 

A yes man, isn't captain material. (Not saying that is Staq, but it should be said)

[Bison44]

Well we had to listen to all that  die for the shirt crap from Herdman and he comes out with a "me" interview only 5 months after quiting? This self serving revisionist history is just setting him up for his new job.   This is why the WC want a success, it was the players, I had personal shit happen 6months earlier and I didnt want to be there, it wasnt that I was out of my league as a manager, it was the players attitudes. 

But dont worry, this will have the soccer pundits eating out of his hand and the TFC players will say all the right things...for awhile.   SIZZLE....not STEAK, and that stuff never lasts for long, especially day in and day out.  

[kacbru]

The personal stuff he had to go through is terrible. 

But the lack of self-awareness is revealing to not realize how much he is wrapped up in the 'me' first just as much as the players. 

[dyslexic nam]

2 hours ago, Shway said:

He didn't say much? What did he disagree with the "we" part?

To us fans, it very much so seemed like a lot of "Me" was going on before and for the coach to say it...I don't know I'm with JH on this. It's obvious Staq isn't going to say yes it's true!....if he did, then for me I would say it's captain material. 

A yes man, isn't captain material. (Not saying that is Staq, but it should be said)

I guess I see it differently.  I see a player responding maturely when a former manager essentially throws the players under the bus a bit.  I say a bit because he also admitted that his head wasn’t in it (for obvious personal reasons) but the underlying critique that the players stopped being a brotherhood definitely points some of the blame on them.  

Staq respectfully disagrees, still gives Herdman a lot of credit, and tries to not prolong any sort of division.   It was a mature response and the kind of level-headed approach I’d like to see in a a captain (especially one who happens to consistently be one of your very best players). 
 

[Shway]

8 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I guess I see it differently.  I see a player responding maturely when a former manager essentially throws the players under the bus a bit.  I say a bit because he also admitted that his head wasn’t in it (for obvious personal reasons) but the underlying critique that the players stopped being a brotherhood definitely points some of the blame on them.  

Staq respectfully disagrees, still gives Herdman a lot of credit, and tries to not prolong any sort of division.   It was a mature response and the kind of level-headed approach I’d like to see in a a captain (especially one who happens to consistently be one of your very best players). 
 

Laryea had the same mature response, and has been one of those consistent contributors but I wouldn't say captain material just off the article I read about him talking about John. 

I guess you can have this perspective because of the last CMNT players words about him (Kaye)...but I don't know, he doesn't say anything "I will lead and fix this country" that wows me. 

He defends the coach. 
He defends himself and the players.

Keeping the peace, isn't always good. As a captain you gotta ruffle the feathers sometimes, or lead by example. It's hard for a NT captain to lead by example in a short period of time. 

I would've loved to read something like..."we need to get back to what got us here, we need to look ourselves in the mirror and have the love, and gratitude to play for our country. Once we have that again, all the rest is noise. The pride and joy will bring us back to the top, and our skill and results will do our talking. 

Edited December 16, 2023 by Shway

[Shway]

7 hours ago, kacbru said:

But the lack of self-awareness is revealing to not realize how much he is wrapped up in the 'me' first just as much as the players. 

He was the parent to the spoiled kids. Of course he's going to stay on the side of keeping his boys happy or not trying to mess up the strong family unit he created regardless of seeing the wrong. 

At no point did we hear John talking about money for himself (maybe because he was already being paid handsomely) but less we forget that's what the "ME" was all about. And the players bashing the CPL to worry about "ME money" was the issue. 

The only thing I pin on John is his choice of words against Croatia, and his tactics against the USA NL finals. 

[RS]

11 hours ago, Bison44 said:

This self serving revisionist history is just setting him up for his new job.

The new job he's had since August?

[Ivan]

1 hour ago, RS said:

The new job he's had since August?

That he really didn't assume until October for some reason (though we can probably guess why he left Dunfield out there to burn).

[RS]

5 minutes ago, Ivan said:

That he really didn't assume until October for some reason (though we can probably guess why he left Dunfield out there to burn).

Right, but my point was that he's not trying to butter up potential employers with this latest interview since he already found a job months ago.

[BearcatSA]

My first take on this interview is that he simultaneously burnt any bridge he had to being "resurrected" as MNT messiah prior to hosting the 2026 WC but also he's put himself into much more of a "must deliver" position in his praise of the resources and set up available to him at his current club.  Sure, the latter was always going to be the case but I feel that he has snookered himself a little bit more than he needed to here.

As Kristian Jack said and of which I agree completely:  it is not difficult to make the playoffs in MLS.  The TFC ownership will be expecting this in 2024.

Edited December 16, 2023 by BearcatSA

[Kadenge]

40 minutes ago, RS said:

Right, but my point was that he's not trying to butter up potential employers with this latest interview since he already found a job months ago.

He's already planning  his next gig 

 

[BearcatSA]

1 minute ago, Kadenge said:

He's already planning  his next gig 

 

If it doesn't go as planned at TFC, where to next for him?

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Consett Town in the English 8th tier, maybe? More seriously, if Project 8 ever gets off the ground, he'd probably find a home there, I guess. The way he's speaking out now suggests bridges were already burned where the CSA is concerned even before his exit. It's too bad he wasn't willing to be a bit more vocal publicly in the run-up to Qatar while he still had the CMNT job. His reticence to do that makes him part of the problem.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Kadenge]

Herdman was absolutely the right guy at the right time for the CMNT and proved a lot of us wrong. He built up a mentally fragile squad and instilled a winning attitude. Massive WCQ and a superb performance vs Belgium. But he never seems to take responsibility whenever things don't go well..it's always finger pointing at someone else. He should have rallied the players for the Panama friendly and told them " we need this game to prep for the WC and if we skip we are hurting our chances as  a team and as individual players". A good performance at the WC would have brought more opportunities for the players. Surely that would not have been a hard convo. 

 

 

 

[Kadenge]

45 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

If it doesn't go as planned at TFC, where to next for him?

I assume that NZ is always a fall back option for him if he wants it

[dyslexic nam]

I also heard Bev Priestman may be vacating her position at some point.  

[BearcatSA]

16 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

I assume that NZ is always a fall back option for him if he wants it

I thinking falling back is not in the Norman Vincent Peale philosophy

[RS]

2 hours ago, Kadenge said:

He should have rallied the players for the Panama friendly and told them " we need this game to prep for the WC and if we skip we are hurting our chances as  a team and as individual players".

We have no evidence that he didn't do that.

[Kadenge]

1 hour ago, RS said:

We have no evidence that he didn't do that.

If he did, then he failed to rally the same group where some players said they would run through a wall for him. So did he loose the room or his golden touch after building the brotherhood? Herdman is very persuasive and based on everything he did to help qualify the team for the WC, I can't see the same set of players telling him No. 

[Cadeau]

3 hours ago, Kadenge said:

If he did, then he failed to rally the same group where some players said they would run through a wall for him. So did he loose the room or his golden touch after building the brotherhood? Herdman is very persuasive and based on everything he did to help qualify the team for the WC, I can't see the same set of players telling him No. 

Persuasive to get the best on field performance is one thing, but Herdman isn't God, he can't necessarily persuade them to do things off the field...I still think the players had the best leverage they've ever had and that was the time to try and use it.