Herdman new head coach

[Obinna]

I've never had a problem with Sid. Always appreciated his passion. We have so few voices that care about Canadian soccer that I welcome them all. That includes Sid (but definitely does not include Westhead, as he doesn't qualify for obvious reasons).

[Ally McCoist]

On 8/21/2023 at 9:42 PM, Ally McCoist said:

I don't trust the CSA to appoint a new manager who will have the same influence Herdman had on the guys. The new manager is going to be someone straight out of the bargain bin you know that damn well. Think someone like Biello *shudders*

Call me Nostradamus.

[Bison44]

Saying the assistant is going to take over as the interm manager isnt much of a prediction.  

[Aird25]

I don't think I knew he lost his sister before the World Cup. You have to feel for the guy 

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/podcasts/players-own-voice/john-herdman-world-cup-shouldn-t-have-went-1.7055347

[Cadeau]

48 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

I don't think I knew he lost his sister before the World Cup. You have to feel for the guy 

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/podcasts/players-own-voice/john-herdman-world-cup-shouldn-t-have-went-1.7055347

Oh wow, I didn’t know either. How awful.

[InglewoodJack]

Brutal interview. Aside from the part about his sister which is crushing, the part about the players shifting from “we” to “me” after qualification confirms what we all thought. He ends with a quote along the lines of “the people at the top of soccer in Canada have infected the game with a me attitude” and how no one at the top has any appreciation for the significance of working for a national organization with goals beyond personal gain. This should read like a laundry list of things to fix for 2026, but my sense is we haven’t learned. 

[themodelcitizen]

On 9/21/2023 at 1:42 PM, Bison44 said:

Saying the assistant is going to take over as the interm manager isnt much of a prediction.  

I mean, this is the CSA. Going back a bit now but remember when Dale Mitchell took us to 0 and 3 with 0 goals for in the 2007 U-20s? You just knew he had the senior job lined up despite failing in just about the worst way possible in what should have been a trial period

[Kadenge]

42 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Brutal interview. Aside from the part about his sister which is crushing, the part about the players shifting from “we” to “me” after qualification confirms what we all thought. He ends with a quote along the lines of “the people at the top of soccer in Canada have infected the game with a me attitude” and how no one at the top has any appreciation for the significance of working for a national organization with goals beyond personal gain. This should read like a laundry list of things to fix for 2026, but my sense is we haven’t learned. 

Perhaps the CSA should have offered the GS job to Herdman. I think he would have been perfect for the job.

[InglewoodJack]

3 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Perhaps the CSA should have offered the GS job to Herdman. I think he would have been perfect for the job.

From what he’s saying in the interview, TFC offers him the opportunity to be on the pitch every day, spend all this time with his players- I think that he really wanted to coach the club game because there’s only so much you can do as a national team coach that only spends a few weeks per year with the team. Agreed he’d have been perfect, but I think he wants to be (and belongs) in the trenches with his squad. 

[SpursFlu]

Very sad story and really puts a lot of things in focus. He probably just really wanted a change of scenery and energy for him to get pass the loss. Having to listen to and expect to solve all these supposed issues must have been tough when he was grieving.... in his mind he was probably like really? These are issues? This is what has everyone upset? You work your whole life to get somewhere and then it feels saltless and you'd completely trade it all in in a split second for a different circumstance. Very tough

Good luck to him at TFC

Edited December 12, 2023 by SpursFlu

[The Real Marc]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

Brutal interview. Aside from the part about his sister which is crushing, the part about the players shifting from “we” to “me” after qualification confirms what we all thought. He ends with a quote along the lines of “the people at the top of soccer in Canada have infected the game with a me attitude” and how no one at the top has any appreciation for the significance of working for a national organization with goals beyond personal gain. This should read like a laundry list of things to fix for 2026, but my sense is we haven’t learned. 

Isn't this kind of his job though? If you're all about brotherhood, it's a bit rich to throw hands up and point fingers at stuff like this if your brotherhood ends up being fair-weather.

(Still maintain that strike was god-awful stupid. Can see how that could be a team building turning point.)

Edited December 12, 2023 by The Real Marc

[costarg]

2 hours ago, Aird25 said:

I don't think I knew he lost his sister before the World Cup. You have to feel for the guy 

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/podcasts/players-own-voice/john-herdman-world-cup-shouldn-t-have-went-1.7055347

Oh man, puts things in perspective.  Going through that, on top of the feeling of regret, while you're also on a high in your own professional life is just awful.

What's wild is a few people claimed something seemed off with him and didn't seem aligned with the pre-qualification version of Herdman.

Wishing him the best.

[costarg]

Just now, The Real Marc said:

Isn't this kind of his job though? If you're all about brotherhood, you can't throw hands up and point fingers at stuff like this.

Absolutely his job, however he's still human and he went through with it.

I don't feel he's making excuses, he could have come out with it right away, maybe he did, but this is the first I've heard of it.  So I'm guessing he kept it to himself and tried his best to work through it.

[InglewoodJack]

11 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

Isn't this kind of his job though? If you're all about brotherhood, it's a bit rich to throw hands up and point fingers at stuff like this if your brotherhood ends up being fair-weather.

(Still maintain that strike was god-awful stupid. Can see how that could be a team building turning point.)

The overall impression I get from the interview is that without saying it, Herdman knows that he took our guys as far as he could and it was probably time to get a new coach before the World Cup. I’m sure some players would have a less favourable retelling of the way things went down, but I think by the time the players stopped moving as a group, there wasn’t much he could do to right the ship. Moses leading his people to the promise land but not being able to enter with them type thing. 

[Ottawafan]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

Brutal interview. Aside from the part about his sister which is crushing, the part about the players shifting from “we” to “me” after qualification confirms what we all thought. He ends with a quote along the lines of “the people at the top of soccer in Canada have infected the game with a me attitude” and how no one at the top has any appreciation for the significance of working for a national organization with goals beyond personal gain. This should read like a laundry list of things to fix for 2026, but my sense is we haven’t learned. 

Which further explains why the players had little faith in the CSA doing the right thing with the money gained from qualification.   

[The Real Marc]

(The right thing being funnelling it to their wallets.)

((sorry couldn't resist, feel free to delete.))

[Bigandy]

6 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Which further explains why the players had little faith in the CSA doing the right thing with the money gained from qualification.   

Whats the "right" thing to do? Fund youth teams? Fund additional cmnt/cwnt camps so they are a better team? Paying out the players? Paying out the women and men equal, dollar for dollar? 

The right thing from an organizational stand point would be to reinvest the funds to develop the program (along with a small bonus to the players). 

The right thing from the players stand point is a big pay day. (keep in mind that herdman has said the best part about the WC bonus is that it can be reinvested into the program).

It's not like any CSA executive benefits personally by paying the players less and reinvesting funds. Ya, they may not spend wisely, but its a tough ask to decide where to allocate funds. 

[CanadaFan123]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

Brutal interview. Aside from the part about his sister which is crushing, the part about the players shifting from “we” to “me” after qualification confirms what we all thought. He ends with a quote along the lines of “the people at the top of soccer in Canada have infected the game with a me attitude” and how no one at the top has any appreciation for the significance of working for a national organization with goals beyond personal gain. This should read like a laundry list of things to fix for 2026, but my sense is we haven’t learned. 

I wonder if he’s including himself in the “me” shift, because he was certainly more selfish than anyone at the World Cup with his media bs. That continued into this summer when he basically shit on the quality of our players before our first final in 23 years. 

I think everyone is guilty of shifting to “me” and cockiness. From the CSA down to the fans. For some reason we can’t just win normally and carry on - look at the Jamaica series as an example. 

 

[Ottawafan]

20 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Whats the "right" thing to do? Fund youth teams? Fund additional cmnt/cwnt camps so they are a better team? Paying out the players? Paying out the women and men equal, dollar for dollar? 

The right thing from an organizational stand point would be to reinvest the funds to develop the program (along with a small bonus to the players). 

The right thing from the players stand point is a big pay day. (keep in mind that herdman has said the best part about the WC bonus is that it can be reinvested into the program).

It's not like any CSA executive benefits personally by paying the players less and reinvesting funds. Ya, they may not spend wisely, but its a tough ask to decide where to allocate funds. 

Investing in the NT's and youth camps/teams is 100% the right thing to do.  Why does it take a cash infusion from the players making the mens WC for them to realize this is important?  Why had they not been doing that before?  It shouldn't be a case of now we got this $10M, now we can focus on doing these important things.  How were they going to fund these ventures had the men not made Qatar?  Or was it not as important?

CSA has never shown the ability to put the players first.  Getting their hands on the money instilled little confidence amongst the players that they would spend it correctly.  Players know the crookedness of those in the game, who are looking at benefiting themselves and those they align with.  It's the same at every level. 

 

[SpursFlu]

48 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Whats the "right" thing to do? Fund youth teams? Fund additional cmnt/cwnt camps so they are a better team? Paying out the players? Paying out the women and men equal, dollar for dollar? 

The right thing from an organizational stand point would be to reinvest the funds to develop the program (along with a small bonus to the players). 

The right thing from the players stand point is a big pay day. (keep in mind that herdman has said the best part about the WC bonus is that it can be reinvested into the program).

It's not like any CSA executive benefits personally by paying the players less and reinvesting funds. Ya, they may not spend wisely, but its a tough ask to decide where to allocate funds. 

Cmon man.. there all idiots and stealing money. Let's not bring any nuance here let's just keep it simple and comfortable for people 

[Bigandy]

35 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Investing in the NT's and youth camps/teams is 100% the right thing to do.  Why does it take a cash infusion from the players making the mens WC for them to realize this is important?  Why had they not been doing that before?  It shouldn't be a case of now we got this $10M, now we can focus on doing these important things.  How were they going to fund these ventures had the men not made Qatar?  Or was it not as important?

CSA has never shown the ability to put the players first.  Getting their hands on the money instilled little confidence amongst the players that they would spend it correctly.  Players know the crookedness of those in the game, who are looking at benefiting themselves and those they align with.  It's the same at every level. 

 

It takes a cash infusion to have a cash infusion.... CSA has never had money to properly reinvest in the program. Its painfully obvious why that is....no fan support, never qualifying for the WC, lack of sponsorship etc. Now add in ridiculous wcq costs and covid and cash is even harder to come by. 

The WC bonus can be used as a spring board, with regularly qualifying for the WC, we can increase popularity etc to help fund the program further. 

Its just nonsense to think money has been readily available to the program in the past or that "crookedness" is the reason we cant afford to reinvest. 

[Colonel Green]

1 hour ago, Ottawafan said:

Investing in the NT's and youth camps/teams is 100% the right thing to do.  Why does it take a cash infusion from the players making the mens WC for them to realize this is important?  Why had they not been doing that before? 

Because they never had the money? That's not some big mystery.

None of which is to say that Canada Soccer isn't a poorly run organization, historically, but their being poorly run is more of a compounding factor on top of their penury than the cause of that penury. Their lack of resources, at base, comes from Canadians not being interested in or putting much money into pro/national soccer.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Colonel Green

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, Ottawafan said:

Which further explains why the players had little faith in the CSA doing the right thing with the money gained from qualification.   

I am not sure the players were seeking substantial compensation increases as a way to prevent the CSA from mismanaging it.  That seems like a generous attribution of altruism.  A much more straightforward scenario is that they just wanted more money for themselves.  Which aligns with the “me” agenda Herdman outlined.   Which you seem to completely ignore in the continued effort to make the CSA the sole villain in everything that has transpired between it and the players.   

[Watchmen]

I wonder what things would be like if the players and CSA had hammered out an agreement before qualifying, like a sane program would.

[Bigandy]

4 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I wonder what things would be like if the players and CSA had hammered out an agreement before qualifying, like a sane program would.

I cant imagine it would be much different. 

We had tons of injuries and guys out of season. We didnt spend tons of time together in the time preceding the WC. The biggest thing to me is that its in the best interest of these guys to give everything. A once in a lifetime experience for some with the biggest showcase on the planet.... That surely is more motivation than arguing over some cash that many of our starters would chalk up to chump change.