Herdman new head coach

[blueseeka]

19 minutes ago, SF said:

A few details here, none of them that makes you feel good about Canada Soccer. 
 

https://archive.ph/pKltd

Sources with knowledge of Herdman’s thinking, speaking confidentially about internal matters, say the cancellation of two prospective national team matches later this year affected his outlook, too: one against Saudi Arabia in Newcastle, near Herdman’s hometown, and another against South Korea in London. The men’s team has just one match scheduled the rest of 2023, against Japan in October, and the budget cuts that hit earlier this year are expected to be even steeper in the years ahead.

The cancellation of those games became official just before Canada lost the Nation’s Cup final to the United States in June, and the strain went public. After the match Herdman mentioned that he had helped raise funds for the men’s team last year in order to be able to afford charter flights and security, and said, “We’ve got to figure this out financially. We’ve got to get serious about winning a World Cup. When you play at home, you get a chance to win it… And we’re not serious. We brought a World Cup to our country, and we’re not serious about winning it.”

[narduch]

3 minutes ago, phresh said:

Really couldn't be less bothered by the news. And to those who are emotionally distraught, go take a look at the first few pages of this thread

Same here.

People are trying to frame this as the CSA being incompetent. 

Looks more like classic Herdman opportunism to me.

[SpursFlu]

6 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

How so ? 
 

Morocco never got the respect the deserved and went to the semi finals, were we really supposed to be Croatia ? Belgium we did everything but score and that game was a shock to the world.

I think based on the games and the way they played out we should have done better. The fact that Morocco did well is an example of us having a disappointing tournament. Watching them play I didn't really rate them but they got results. Australia & Costa Rica jump out to me as well

It was 3 games so anything can happen but didn't we statistically finish 32 or something like that. We were definitely not the 32 best team in that tournament. Based on how good Morocco and Begium looked to me and how we started against Croatia, we should have found a result somewhere 

[Dominic94]

12 minutes ago, SF said:

A few details here, none of them that makes you feel good about Canada Soccer. 
 

https://archive.ph/pKltd

I mean, I knew Crooks was seen as a win for CSB, and Montagliani. 
 

Real change doesn’t come until that deal ends.

[Dominic94]

3 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

I think based on the games and the way they played out we should have done better. The fact that Morocco did well is an example of us having a disappointing tournament. Watching them play I didn't really rate them but they got results. Australia & Costa Rica jump out to me as well

It was 3 games so anything can happen but didn't we statistically finish 32 or something like that. We were definitely not the 32 best team in that tournament. Based on how good Morocco and Begium looked to me and how we started against Croatia, we should have found a result somewhere 

I disagree, Morroco still had a better team than us, maybe they didn’t have Davies and David but after that what did we have on them ? And Croatia shredded us, it’s surprising we got off to such a strong start.

Belgium still had a team that can produce moments of magic and that’s what happened.

We were out coached yes, but let’s not pretend we had the depth of quality to best these teams. 

[SoccMan]

7 hours ago, Bertuzzi44 said:

I was probably one of the biggest Herdman detractors when he got "hired". But I will happily eat crow. Herdman did a fantastic job in WCQ, and deserved all the praise he got leading Canada to the World Cup for the first time in decades.

However, from the finals onward Canada have not looked great. I am not sure what it is exactly, but I think a change makes a lot of sense for both sides. Assuming Soccer Canada can find a good replacement of course...

So, from a firm "anti-Herdmanist", thank you John for your historic work with the CMNT and good luck in the future.

for Soccer Canada: please please please do due diligence and find a good replacement! Our golden generation is coming into its prime, and getting OUT of the group stage at the 2026 World Cup should be the EXPECTATION!

 

The only reason he is leaving is because the CSA is a mess, we qualified for a World Cup after all those years and the association is a bloody mess , instead of capitalizing on Canada making a World Cup they screwed it up from the time we qualified until where we find ourselves today . They have no money to hire anyone of any quality, no money to play friendlies while other countries in our region are all playing games. Get use to the likes of Mauro Biello and company coaching Canada that is as good as it’s going to get coaching wise , hey I hear Colin Miller is available there is a guy they might be able to afford lol , it’s a bloody mess thanks to the good old CSA or whatever the hell they call themselves now !

[Gian-Luca]

10 minutes ago, narduch said:

Same here.

People are trying to frame this as the CSA being incompetent. 

Looks more like classic Herdman opportunism to me.

KJ paints an extremely different picture to the one painted by the Toronto Star & Rick Westhead in this video (at least, up to 25 minutes in - I haven't yet watched the rest and will have to find time tomorrow). Players he has spoken to are happy Herdman is going, some are not thrilled but are okay with it & are wishing him well, the CSA are relieved by the financial burden being lifted a bit by his departing huge salary and even KJ is already getting texts from international managers asking how they can apply for the job.

 

[Cheeta]

4 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

I disagree, Morroco still had a better team than us, maybe they didn’t have Davies and David but after that what did we have on them ? And Croatia shredded us, it’s surprising we got off to such a strong start.

Belgium still had a team that can produce moments of magic and that’s what happened.

We were out coached yes, but let’s not pretend we had the depth of quality to best these teams. 

I think, to be fair, circumstances we're really stacked against us in Qatar.  Nobody's fault by in large, injuries to key figures,  a goofy winter tournie, it is what it is.  Just rotten luck. 

Think I'm saying I'd love to have another go at that group on a better day.  Not sure the results would be any differnet but boy would the watch be better. 

[costarg]

2 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

We were out coached yes, but let’s not pretend we had the depth of quality to best these teams. 

We weren't out coached, Herdman was out coached.  Go look back at the game thread, we all knew it was a ridiculous, arrogant and naive line-up before the game started.  

It's not that we lost, it's how we lost.  We didn't play as well as we could have.  I feel he had lost the team well before we showed up at the WC.  Everything changed once we qualified, I feel it went to his head and the players weren't running through brick walls anymore.  We can't put it all on the CSA, John was part of the failure.

[SoccMan]

7 hours ago, jhoops__ said:

Meh, we’ve got the most talent available in our history and hopefully the Copa next year and the WC at home coming.   It’s a good job even with the shambles of the association.   This could be a good turning point imo.

It’s all about the money which this association don’t have , so good luck finding a good quality coach who will work for peanuts .

[SpursFlu]

So in one breath everyone's mad because the CSA is low on cash but they're failures because Herdman didn't get a money losing, pointless homecoming match in Newcastle 

I would like to see some friendlies against exotic opposition as much as the next guy but I see it as a nice to do not a must do. 

It feels like the same people complaining the CSA are short on cash are the same people mad the CSA just don't go spending on every last thing. I don't get it

Edited August 29, 2023 by SpursFlu

[SoccMan]

7 hours ago, trc2014 said:

A bit scared Herdman didnt bring Biello with him but brought everyone else.  Makes me question what he thinks about his coaching.  Good chance with the mess the CSA is now that interim becomes a permanent hire.

Not a good chance a very good chance  Biello will be the guy probably the only type of coach they can afford.

[Vasi]

8 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

KJ paints an extremely different picture to the one painted by the Toronto Star & Rick Westhead in this video (at least, up to 25 minutes in - I haven't yet watched the rest and will have to find time tomorrow). Players he has spoken to are happy Herdman is going, some are not thrilled but are okay with it & are wishing him well, the CSA are relieved by the financial burden being lifted a bit by his departing huge salary and even KJ is already getting texts from international managers asking how they can apply for the job.

 

Huge salary....🤣.....wasn't Herdman the 2nd lowest payed coach at the WC....who is he getting a call from? Some dude coaching an English beer league team? Technically an international manager!

I agree that Westhead has an agenda, but so does KJ. He is employed by the CSB (he works for the CPL and One Soccer) 

When ever he talks about the national team he can't be taken as an neutral journalist. 

 

[SpursFlu]

6 minutes ago, Vasi said:

Huge salary....🤣.....wasn't Herdman the 2nd lowest payed coach at the WC....who is he getting a call from? Some dude coaching an English beer league team? Technically an international manager!

I agree that Westhead has an agenda, but so does KJ. He is employed by the CSB (he works for the CPL and One Soccer) 

When ever he talks about the national team he can't be taken as an neutral journalist. 

 

Where did you get that Herdman was the 2nd lowest paid coach at the World Cup? From what I could find today he was actually paid pretty good

https://sportsest.com/fifa-world-cup-national-team-coaches-salaries-2022/?expand_article=1

Seems about right and according to the conversation today he had a very generous bonus structure beyond his salary 

Edited August 29, 2023 by SpursFlu

[narduch]

6 minutes ago, Vasi said:

Huge salary....🤣.....wasn't Herdman the 2nd lowest payed coach at the WC....who is he getting a call from? Some dude coaching an English beer league team? Technically an international manager!

I agree that Westhead has an agenda, but so does KJ. He is employed by the CSB (he works for the CPL and One Soccer) 

When ever he talks about the national team he can't be taken as an neutral journalist. 

 

CSB doesn't own One Soccer 

[BearcatSA]

17 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Players he has spoken to are happy Herdman is going

To Jack:  what were their specific reasons why?

Specifics help paint a better picture than simply saying, "It was time."

 

[Gian-Luca]

3 minutes ago, Vasi said:

Huge salary....🤣.....wasn't Herdman the 2nd lowest payed coach at the WC....who is he getting a call from? Some dude coaching an English beer league team? Technically an international manager!

I agree that Westhead has an agenda, but so does KJ. He is employed by the CSB (he works for the CPL and One Soccer) 

When ever he talks about the national team he can't be taken as an neutral journalist. 

 

KJ is employed by MediaPro, not CSB. I don’t always agree with his opinions, but he genuinely is a fan of the game and cares about the sport, unlike Dick Breasthead at TSN. The suggestion that he is insincere, making stuff up or commenting in bad faith because MediaPro is telling him to is absurd. KJ was harsher on Herdman at the World Cup and since then than any other journalist, do you really think that’s because of his employers or the CSB

Also if you actually watch the video, you’ll see that they also talk about Herdman having a ton of extra costs in addition to his salary, like his hiring of an astronaut to come and visit the team during the World Cup. They are suggesting the CSA are also happy about not having to pay for that kind of stuff for the foreseeable future.

[Vasi]

6 minutes ago, narduch said:

CSB doesn't own One Soccer 

True. But they are dependent on each other. 

[EJsens1]

44 minutes ago, blueseeka said:

Sources with knowledge of Herdman’s thinking, speaking confidentially about internal matters, say the cancellation of two prospective national team matches later this year affected his outlook, too: one against Saudi Arabia in Newcastle, near Herdman’s hometown, and another against South Korea in London. The men’s team has just one match scheduled the rest of 2023, against Japan in October, and the budget cuts that hit earlier this year are expected to be even steeper in the years ahead.

The cancellation of those games became official just before Canada lost the Nation’s Cup final to the United States in June, and the strain went public. After the match Herdman mentioned that he had helped raise funds for the men’s team last year in order to be able to afford charter flights and security, and said, “We’ve got to figure this out financially. We’ve got to get serious about winning a World Cup. When you play at home, you get a chance to win it… And we’re not serious. We brought a World Cup to our country, and we’re not serious about winning it.”

Funny it’s Bruce Arthur writing this. KJ was making insinuations tonight about 2 journalists basically being mouthpieces for Herdman through leaks. This clown, who is arguably the most condescending journalist in Canada and Westhead. I’m curious to see if Westheads commentary with regards to the CSA and players takes a step back

Edited August 29, 2023 by EJsens1

[SoccMan]

44 minutes ago, narduch said:

Same here.

People are trying to frame this as the CSA being incompetent. 

Looks more like classic Herdman opportunism to me.

If the CSA wasn’t so incompetent Herdman would still be the coach plain and simple . The CSA being incompetent is not a new thing it’s been like this from when I started following the national team back in the 1970’s . Like I’ve said already we qualified for a World Cup and instead of being in a good state we are worse off . The build up to the World Cup after we qualified was a mess and after the World Cup it’s even worse . I don’t blame him for leaving many coaches in his shoes would have done the same .

[SpursFlu]

I would also throw out the theory that if the CSA wanted Herdman to go so they wouldn't have to fire him and pay him compensation. Its smart not to sink anymore money in to a lame duck coach playing friendlies. It's also a good way to set up a Japanese firing, just marginalizing someone until they leave. Now was definitely the time to drive him out. I would turned off his hot water, forget to change the light bulb in his office. When he stormed out give the old half hearted "wait don't go"

It's also a bit eyebrow raising that Herdman was clearly shopping himself around and he was so keen to play high profile friendlies one of which was in England. Sounds like an opportunity to showcase himself if you ask me

[narduch]

3 minutes ago, SoccMan said:

If the CSA wasn’t so incompetent Herdman would still be the coach plain and simple . The CSA being incompetent is not a new thing it’s been like this from when I started following the national team back in the 1970’s . Like I’ve said already we qualified for a World Cup and instead of being in a good state we are worse off . The build up to the World Cup after we qualified was a mess and after the World Cup it’s even worse . I don’t blame him for leaving many coaches in his shoes would have done the same .

That's Herdman's narrative.

The flipside is he is jumping ship now because a lot of the players don't respect him anymore (case in point Gold Cup roster).

He needs to get out now before his reputation is damaged further with poor results. 

[Gian-Luca]

8 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

To Jack:  what were their specific reasons why?

Specifics help paint a better picture than simply saying, "It was time."

 

I paused the video at the 25 minute mark as I really needed to get out and stretch my legs so I don’t know yet if they go into further specifics, but one suggestion in the first 25 minutes, reading between the lines from what Wheeler and KJ say in combination, is that some players were frustrated that Herdman was leaking things to Westhead for his anti-CSA articles.

KJ doesn’t say that Herdman leaked things, Wheeler does but KJ mentions the frustration bit. 

[costarg]

4 minutes ago, SoccMan said:

If the CSA wasn’t so incompetent Herdman would still be the coach plain and simple . The CSA being incompetent is not a new thing it’s been like this from when I started following the national team back in the 1970’s . Like I’ve said already we qualified for a World Cup and instead of being in a good state we are worse off . The build up to the World Cup after we qualified was a mess and after the World Cup it’s even worse . I don’t blame him for leaving many coaches in his shoes would have done the same .

It was time.  The CSA might be incompetent, but Herdman leaving is a good thing overall, it might be the beginning of CSA setting itself straight.

[Vasi]

15 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Where did you get that Herdman was the 2nd lowest paid coach at the World Cup? From what I could find today he was actually paid pretty good

https://sportsest.com/fifa-world-cup-national-team-coaches-salaries-2022/?expand_article=1

Seems about right and according to the conversation today he had a very generous bonus structure beyond his salary 

26th on the list. 

https://www.completesports.com/revealed-salaries-of-32-head-coaches-in-2022-fifa-world-cup/

I was not refering about his post wc deal. 

Lisen if him getting fired eases  the CSA's pockets and allows them to have a few camps and maybe organize an extra friendly great im all for it.

I have no problem with Herman getting the boot. 

I was merely pointing out that KJ has ties to CSB and in my opinion for better or worse does not make him impartial. 

That also does not change the fact that Rick Westhead is a dickhead. ☺️.