Herdman new head coach

[RS]

Choiniere was injured when Fraser joined the Gold Cup team, no?

[narduch]

2 minutes ago, RS said:

Choiniere was injured when Fraser joined the Gold Cup team, no?

But he deserved to be in the original call up

[costarg]

1 hour ago, RS said:

Choiniere was injured when Fraser joined the Gold Cup team, no?

Choiniere was playing *really* well way before the GC roster.  Herdman was ignoring it, like he did with a few other players, cause "brotherhood".

[DoyleG]

2 hours ago, costarg said:

That's one way to see it, however what Simon says and what we've seen from John are very different styles of a similar dish. 

When you start hearing about "Arfield can't come cause he doesn't fit in" even though he makes the team stronger and "can't invite new guys cause they weren't there for WCQ and it'll disrupt the balance" and "Henry has to be there cause he's loyal", and replying "we need experienced winners" in reply to the Choiniere question and then see Fraser show up, serious questions need to be asked.  He's just feeding us shit with scented food coloring.

 

The problem with the military comparison is, that in the military mindset, you will have people come in that you won't like but have to deal with it. Additionally, units are also taught to deal with consistent change from within a unit (promotions, postings, discharges, etc)

It is doubtful that many on the national team would be welcoming of new talent that would assist the team and the acceptance of existing players taking on new roles. Given that we are 3 years out from the World Cup, that has to be taken seriously. The CMNT can't become a closed shop because of a few disgruntled players.

[DoyleG]

22 hours ago, Obinna said:

according to wiki:

37 of 72 Panama players called in the last 12 months play abroad (44%)

22 of 46 Canada players called in the last 12 months play abroad (47%)

35 of 46 Canada players called in the last 12 months play abroad (if you include American MLS teams)(76%)

 

The Panama team going down to Bolivia is domestic with the exception of two players (both in the Columbian leagues).

It also includes a large number of players who haven't been capped yet.

[Obinna]

56 minutes ago, DoyleG said:

The Panama team going down to Bolivia is domestic with the exception of two players (both in the Columbian leagues).

It also includes a large number of players who haven't been capped yet.

Yes I know. I was pointing out to @Mattd97 that Panama is not anymore domestic than Canada is.

He was responding to @costarg's comment about how Panama don't need to funnel all their cash into the women's team, and how we do and how that impacts the men. I believe his response to that was something something Panama's whole team is domestic. Quite obviously it isn't, unless we are cherry picking their current domestic selection.

I think Panama often gets mixed up with other CA teams who ARE mostly domestic, like El Salvador (increasingly less so), Honduras, and nowadays Costa Rica. Compared to those teams Panama has MANY more players abroad, but maybe because they are largely in South America, especially Colombia, people tend to overlook this fact, or maybe they don't consider it as being abroad? Or, maybe they just aren't aware? That's why I wanted to point it out - just in case people weren't aware. 

[Dinozotti]

On 8/25/2023 at 8:28 PM, trc2014 said:

Based on what?

Based on reports from the inside

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, DoyleG said:

The problem with the military comparison is, that in the military mindset, you will have people come in that you won't like but have to deal with it. Additionally, units are also taught to deal with consistent change from within a unit (promotions, postings, discharges, etc)

It is doubtful that many on the national team would be welcoming of new talent that would assist the team and the acceptance of existing players taking on new roles. Given that we are 3 years out from the World Cup, that has to be taken seriously. The CMNT can't become a closed shop because of a few disgruntled players.

If you look over the careers of many longer serving NT managers, declines usually have occurred due to player selection of mainstay stars past their due dates or even some incumbent role players who are kept in a squad to the detriment of a newbie on the rise because they can "do a job" for the manager, as they say.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't

However, having said the above, I applaud Herdman for giving a good look to newbie Ahmed at GC.  As for Chouiniere, I feel like he has earned a call up.  With Loturi, I would be curious to see how his situation looks going forward, since he was part of the NL and GC squads yet with only limited minutes in the latter:  I remember when Joseph Di Chiara was a 19 year old making appearances in the Russian top flight and there was clamour here for his inclusion, he got called up for one WCQ window and never again after that.  Hopefully that doesn't happen to the ex-Cavalry man.

[RS]

3 hours ago, narduch said:

But he deserved to be in the original call up

For sure.

However, the “Fraser was called over Choiniere” narrative was missing a crucial bit of context, in this specific case.

As things happened, Fraser would’ve been at the GC whether Choiniere was an original call-up or not.

 

[trc2014]

39 minutes ago, Dinozotti said:

Based on reports from the inside

Well if he doesn’t get the TFC job, I have a feeling he will have now completely lost the CMNT room for approaching TFC for the position. 

[sandman]

I honestly saw him parlaying this into a top end English championship side like a Millwall, Hull, Boro. 

As unfortunately MLS managers are not really valued internationally, and once you're stained by a bad stint your UK dreams are over. 

[jonovision]

19 hours ago, DoyleG said:

The problem with the military comparison is, that in the military mindset, you will have people come in that you won't like but have to deal with it. Additionally, units are also taught to deal with consistent change from within a unit (promotions, postings, discharges, etc)

It is doubtful that many on the national team would be welcoming of new talent that would assist the team and the acceptance of existing players taking on new roles. Given that we are 3 years out from the World Cup, that has to be taken seriously. The CMNT can't become a closed shop because of a few disgruntled players.

Kone played big minutes in Qatar after debuting with the NT only months earlier. I don't recall hearing of any ruffled feathers.

[jonovision]

18 hours ago, Obinna said:

Yes I know. I was pointing out to @Mattd97 that Panama is not anymore domestic than Canada is.

He was responding to @costarg's comment about how Panama don't need to funnel all their cash into the women's team, and how we do and how that impacts the men. I believe his response to that was something something Panama's whole team is domestic. Quite obviously it isn't, unless we are cherry picking their current domestic selection.

I think Panama often gets mixed up with other CA teams who ARE mostly domestic, like El Salvador (increasingly less so), Honduras, and nowadays Costa Rica. Compared to those teams Panama has MANY more players abroad, but maybe because they are largely in South America, especially Colombia, people tend to overlook this fact, or maybe they don't consider it as being abroad? Or, maybe they just aren't aware? That's why I wanted to point it out - just in case people weren't aware. 

I think in the context of this conversation, having many of their "abroad" players in Colombia and other nearby countries is a major difference with Canada, in terms of costs and logistics of organizing and gathering for matches and camps.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, jonovision said:

I think in the context of this conversation, having many of their "abroad" players in Colombia and other nearby countries is a major difference with Canada, in terms of costs and logistics of organizing and gathering for matches and camps.

I guess that's true, but probably not to the degree that it matters. They have 11 players based in Europe, including countries like Israel, Azerbaijan, Ukraine, and Bulgaria (3). How far-flung are our players? We don't even have anyone in Turkey anymore. Most of our guys are in Western Europe, which is closer to Toronto than Panama City. 

[mikey_s_]

 

[jhoops__]

Well, what do we do now?   Might turn out to be a good thing of we get a better tactician.

[frmr]

Fuck me I would not want to manage that shit show. Then again, I wouldn't want to work for the shit show that is Canada Soccer either. He must be a masochist.

[scullion44]

Big John fan but he’s a passion merchant and that wears off quick when you’re with the same group every single day for months on end. This will be a disaster.

[Alex]

I just hope the players still show up for the games this fall 🤞. This might be a good thing. Hard to say. On the other hand, as a tfc fan I hope he turns that ship around.

[InglewoodJack]

Look forward to trying something new but hate the implications of why he’s leaving and what that means for us over the next couple years. 

[canadave]

Could this be a good thing? Yes. What are the chances it's actually a good thing? Maybe like ...5%

I want to be optimistic, but I know damn well better than that. 

[Redpunkfiddle]

Old head coach now. 

[mpg_29]

Really just surprised by this move for a bunch of reason but then again I suppose he's been head coach for the MNT for over 5 years now so maybe he feels it's the right time to move on.

[InglewoodJack]

1 minute ago, canadave said:

Could this be a good thing? Yes. What are the chances it's actually a good thing? Maybe like ...5%

I want to be optimistic, but I know damn well better than that. 

Reading some of the posts about when Herdman got hired and how it ended up turning out gives me a glimmer of hope, and I guess this is a good chance to repair the dressing room, but saying that he couldn’t deal with the no budget really doesn’t fill me with confidence. 

[rydermike]

"Fuck Messi" 

Pregame speech against Miami