Herdman new head coach

[Bigandy]

2 hours ago, Ottawafan said:

I get it.  They are fans of the NT who haven’t ever played a role in the growth of the game at any level. Nor had to deal with the various governing bodies so when they hear a different perspective they don’t want to hear it. Sad part are the ones who actually bag on the players. 

You're insulting the majority of the board who have experience and played a role in the game we love. I know I have seen tons of growth, built great connections and admired others who contribute to the game. 

The real issue is that you claim to have been involved in the game for many many years and its always been a dumpster fire. If after all those years, all you see is negativity....maybe youre the problem or maybe youre not as smart as you think you are because you obviously havnt been able to improve anything...... 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Bigandy

[MrR]

My experience on this board has been that when I criticize the CSA or Herdman there is a group who take it the wrong way. It reminds me of "juror #8 in the movie 12 Angry Men (1957).

[MrR]

1 minute ago, MrR said:

My experience on this board has been that when I criticize the CSA or Herdman there is a group who take it the wrong way. It reminds me of "juror #8" in the movie 12 Angry Men (1957).

 

[king1010]

^^^^ make sure you’re posting from the correct double account before hitting “submit reply”. 

Edited July 7, 2023 by king1010

[Ottawafan]

16 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

You're insulting the majority of the board who have experience and played a role in the game we love. I know I have seen tons of growth, built great connections and admired others who contribute to the game. 

The real issue is that you claim to have been involved in the game for many many years and its always been a dumpster fire. If after all those years, all you see is negativity....maybe youre the problem or maybe youre not as smart as you think you are because you obviously havnt been able to improve anything...... 

Anyone who has had experience at the highest levels understands the good and the bad of this sport. If you don’t see the negativity of the game, you haven’t been part of players who have gone on to play for the NT, pro or even provincial level.  It’s an easy tell who hasn’t been at that level. 

[MrR]

Just now, king1010 said:

^^^^ make sure you’re posting from the correct double account before hitting “submit reply”. 

^^^^ Sorry. Sometimes I'm not very good at pressing buttons. Although judging by the reaction of others that might not be true.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

You are all pretty. 

And Herdman will be the coach on Sunday.

 

 

 

 

[narduch]

9 minutes ago, king1010 said:

^^^^ make sure you’re posting from the correct double account before hitting “submit reply”. 

I'm always skeptical of posters that only post about one topic.

[Bigandy]

9 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Anyone who has had experience at the highest levels understands the good and the bad of this sport. If you don’t see the negativity of the game, you haven’t been part of players who have gone on to play for the NT, pro or even provincial level.  It’s an easy tell who hasn’t been at that level. 

This is another dick measuring contest... just like when you were trying to say rich people have more passion for canada soccer. 

I'm not gonna get baited into talking about my playing history or coaching history... Youre deflecting. Of course we all see the good and bad.... except for you. You only see the bad when you talk about herdman or the CSA. 

So which year did you play for the National Team? With your breadth of knowledge, I would guess you played in 86? Club team? I want to say madrid?  

[Ottawafan]

2 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

This is another dick measuring contest... just like when you were trying to say rich people have more passion for canada soccer. 

I'm not gonna get baited into talking about my playing history or coaching history... Youre deflecting. Of course we all see the good and bad.... except for you. You only see the bad when you talk about herdman or the CSA. 

So which year did you play for the National Team? With your breadth of knowledge, I would guess you played in 86? Club team? I want to say madrid?  

You are a special one, I will give you that.

[MrR]

1 hour ago, king1010 said:

^^^^ make sure you’re posting from the correct double account before hitting “submit reply”. 

To clarify what happened, which you can confirm by the fact that neither of my 2 posts show that they were edited X two minutes ago by MrR, after my first post I noticed I had failed to insert a second quotation mark after "juror #8("). When trying to correct this I accidentally pressed the wrong button.

However, since you have accused me of using a double account, is it possible to open a second account with the same user name?

[dyslexic nam]

2 minutes ago, MrR said:

To clarify what happened, which you can confirm by the fact that neither of my 2 posts show that they were edited X two minutes ago by MrR, after my first post I noticed I had failed to insert a second quotation mark after "juror #8("). When trying to correct this I accidentally pressed the wrong button.

However, since you have accused me of using a double account, is it possible to open a second account with the same user name?

Red flag 🚩 number 2:

When an account refers to itself in the third-person. 

 

[frmr]

1 hour ago, MrR said:

My experience on this board has been that when I criticize the CSA or Herdman there is a group who take it the wrong way. It reminds me of "juror #8 in the movie 12 Angry Men (1957).

To be fair, in my experience, you've made some of the worst logical arguments I've seen on this board. I think you'll find that 95% of members on this board are very reasonable and open to opposing views if they're presented well. If you talk shite, it doesn't matter what your viewpoint is, it won't be received well. I mean, your first post was suggesting Atiba should be the head coach, and the argument you provided was comparing his playing career to Herdman's coaching career. I honestly thought you were a troll at first.

[MrR]

Anyhow, getting back to Herdman ... An impressive 11-game undefeated streak in 2021/22 resulted in World Cup qualification. For the first time in 36 years, the world to note of Canada again. A narrow 1- nil defeat to Belgium garnered even more attention. However, at that point Herdman appears to have passed his "best before date" as coach of the CMNT. His unparliamentary words prior to the Croatia match proved to be the turning point. In the just more than 7 months after publicly disrespecting one of the world's best soccer nations, Herdman's complete record is as follows:

1) 27-11-2022 versus Croatia a 1-4 loss World Cup

2) 01-12-2022 versus Morocco a 1-2 loss World Cup

3) 25-03-2023 versus Curacao a 2-0 victory Nations League

4) 28-03-2023 versus Honduras a 4-1 victory Nations League

5) 15-06-2023 versus Panama a 2-0 victory Nations League

6) 18-06-2023 versus USA a 0-2 loss Nations League Final

7) 27-06-2023 versus Guadeloupe a 2-2 draw Gold Cup

😎 01-07-2023 versus Guatemala a 0-0 draw Gold Cup

9) 04-07-2023 versus Cuba a 4-2 victory Gold Cup

10) 09-07-2023 versus USA

4 victories against Curacao, Honduras, Panama and Cuba

2 draws against Guadeloupe and Guatemala

3 losses against Croatia, Morocco and the USA

A loss on Sunday would give Herdman a .500 winning percentage since shooting off his mouth prior to the Croatia match, which is a significant drop from the .818 winning percentage achieved during the 11-match undefeated streak.

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, MrR said:

Anyhow, getting back to Herdman ... An impressive 11-game undefeated streak in 2021/22 resulted in World Cup qualification. For the first time in 36 years, the world to note of Canada again. A narrow 1- nil defeat to Belgium garnered even more attention. However, at that point Herdman appears to have passed his "best before date" as coach of the CMNT. His unparliamentary words prior to the Croatia match proved to be the turning point. In the just more than 7 months after publicly disrespecting one of the world's best soccer nations, Herdman's complete record is as follows:

1) 27-11-2022 versus Croatia a 1-4 loss World Cup

2) 01-12-2022 versus Morocco a 1-2 loss World Cup

3) 25-03-2023 versus Curacao a 2-0 victory Nations League

4) 28-03-2023 versus Honduras a 4-1 victory Nations League

5) 15-06-2023 versus Panama a 2-0 victory Nations League

6) 18-06-2023 versus USA a 0-2 loss Nations League Final

7) 27-06-2023 versus Guadeloupe a 2-2 draw Gold Cup

😎 01-07-2023 versus Guatemala a 0-0 draw Gold Cup

9) 04-07-2023 versus Cuba a 4-2 victory Gold Cup

10) 09-07-2023 versus USA

4 victories against Curacao, Honduras, Panama and Cuba

2 draws against Guadeloupe and Guatemala

3 losses against Croatia, Morocco and the USA

A loss on Sunday would give Herdman a .500 winning percentage since shooting off his mouth prior to the Croatia match, which is a significant drop from the .818 winning percentage achieved during the 11-match undefeated streak.

Give some context
With our A team:
Every single game we were expected to lose - we lost. 
Every single game we expected to win - we won. 

With an B team, we had 2 ties and 1 win. Surely we wouldnt judge a coach by how well a random assortment of B team/prospects play without having any time to learn each other or his tactics/system. 

Thanks for proving the point that Herdman is performing exactly to the standard that 99% of people would expect. Is he performing miracles, no. But is he performing below expectations, no.  

I know you'll disagree so tell me which game we over or underperformed with our A team?

 

[Kadenge]

31 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Give some context
With our A team:
Every single game we were expected to lose - we lost. 
Every single game we expected to win - we won. 

With an B team, we had 2 ties and 1 win. Surely we wouldnt judge a coach by how well a random assortment of B team/prospects play without having any time to learn each other or his tactics/system. 

Thanks for proving the point that Herdman is performing exactly to the standard that 99% of people would expect. Is he performing miracles, no. But is he performing below expectations, no.  

I know you'll disagree so tell me which game we over or underperformed with our A team?

 

It was the tactical set up vs Croatia (vs a loss) that was shocking and a major blunder. Our A team  didn't impress in the win over Panama and I'm not sure a loss to the US in the final was a given. I've been very bullish about Herdman since we got that 2-0 win vs the US at BMO, the 2021 GC, and WCQ from Suriname onwards. He was exactly what this team needed at the time and was a massive part of why we qualified for the WC. But a lot of us are now questioning if he has the tactical ability to take us to the next level. We underperformed vs Guadeloupe, Guatemala and Cuba. Our A team hasn't quite looked the same since the WC. That's just being objective.

[DeRo_Is_King]

7 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

It was the tactical set up vs Croatia (vs a loss) that was shocking and a major blunder. Our A team  didn't impress in the win over Panama and I'm not sure a loss to the US in the final was a given. I've been very bullish about Herdman since we got that 2-0 win vs the US at BMO, the 2021 GC, and WCQ from Suriname onwards. He was exactly what this team needed at the time and was a massive part of why we qualified for the WC. But a lot of us are now questioning if he has the tactical ability to take us to the next level. We underperformed vs Guadeloupe, Guatemala and Cuba. Our A team hasn't quite looked the same since the WC. That's just being objective.

Agreed. It's also the things he's said and mismanagement of playing time for some players, all the while pretending draws vs Guadeloupe at home and Guatemala were good results. B team or not (and frankly, we used a handful of A players), this has not been a great Gold Cup thus far. 

Edited July 7, 2023 by DeRo_Is_King

[Bigandy]

2 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

It was the tactical set up vs Croatia (vs a loss) that was shocking and a major blunder. Our A team  didn't impress in the win over Panama and I'm not sure a loss to the US in the final was a given. I've been very bullish about Herdman since we got that 2-0 win vs the US at BMO, the 2021 GC, and WCQ from Suriname onwards. He was exactly what this team needed at the time and was a massive part of why we qualified for the WC. But a lot of us are now questioning if he has the tactical ability to take us to the next level. We underperformed vs Guadeloupe, Guatemala and Cuba. Our A team hasn't quite looked the same since the WC. That's just being objective.

My point is that hes performed exactly how any objective person would assess the matches. 

We won against panama even though many of our guys are exhausted, coming back from injury, lack of prep etc.  It makes sense we looked poor but we still got the job done. 

It 100% makes sense why we lost vs the USA. It wasnt a certainty but they have the better team. 

As for the croatia set up, Ive said it before but does anyone honestly believe that a midfield trio would have had a better result. Look at the nations league final. That made no difference and we had a fit staq, kone with a year of european experience. We had no decent options for CM against croatia so why would you fight fire with fire.  Dont get me wrong, its a bit of a suicide mission to go with 2 cm and load up the wings, but at least theres a tiny chance to expose croatias weakness. Does anyone honestly think that if we had played a green kone, an injured staq and injured oso/MAK/Piette/Atiba, herdman would have shown any sort of tactical acumen? We would have roasted him for feeding kone to the wolves and putting larin on the bench for MAK   

It has been a really poor GC. His roster selection is a bit puzzling. Choiniere would be extremely useful positionally speaking, corbeanu and edwards could also fill in some gaps. Im not calling for his head quite yet but I do wish herdman offered us more this tournament.  

[shorty]

^ Very balanced comment and on the nose for me. Re: Croatia, I actually agree that given the choices and the context a two-man MF was a brave and positive move against an opponent whose MF we couldn’t compete with. Where Herdman screwed up was letting that bravado slip in the media and giving Croatia a) a heads up and b) a rallying point when they had just come out flat vs Morocco. Even with the heads up we struck first and early. Imagine how flat and down and at each other Croatia might have been if Herdman had played his cards closer before the game. For a guy that prides himself on being strategic and over-planning he can be pretty naive at times.
 

Overall I’m still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for a bunch of reasons and I hope he’s just going through one of those temporary loose moments teams always have to fight through in every game in order to re-focus. I hope for his sake that we either win Sunday, or we at least put in a good performance and lose a squeaker. If he trots out a questionable lineup or if we seem unprepared and unorganized, he’s going to wear it, but not go anywhere. It will be loveless marriage for a while and these threads might get even uglier. Eesh. 

Edited July 7, 2023 by shorty

[Unnamed Trialist]

As @shortyand @Bigandyare saying, what happened against Croatia is a hard call. In retrospect, at a certain point in the first half, we had to tighten up the midfield. And sit back. But when?

We got up very early. We were not going to be able to sit back and absorb for 85 minutes. They hit back and then had a few through the middle in the mid-1st half where you could see we should have adjusted. So there was a moment there to maybe ask Phonzie or someone to pinch in or come back, to pressure Modric and try to halt their midfield play. But even then, it seems Eustaquio was injured at one point, perhaps before he went down. And then Atiba was clearly exposed, but possibly because -a-Stephan was not at 100% and -b- he did not have others helping him. We ended up playing with Eustaquio not sharp for about 15 minutes, maybe more. But even then, we were not far from getting to the half 1-1.

All I am saying, in retrospect we should have shifted when it was still 1-1 to a more conservative lineup. But it was not an easy call and I think any coach could have had problems making the onfield adjustments.

Technically we were still in the game when it was 2-1, until m. 70, though it did not feel that way. 

Edited July 8, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist

[MrR]

On 7/7/2023 at 1:56 PM, Bigandy said:

Give some context
With our A team:
Every single game we were expected to lose - we lost. 
Every single game we expected to win - we won. 

With an B team, we had 2 ties and 1 win. Surely we wouldnt judge a coach by how well a random assortment of B team/prospects play without having any time to learn each other or his tactics/system. 

Thanks for proving the point that Herdman is performing exactly to the standard that 99% of people would expect. Is he performing miracles, no. But is he performing below expectations, no.  

I know you'll disagree so tell me which game we over or underperformed with our A team?

 

I'm not going to judge whether A team or B team players underperformed? What I will bring up is why Herdman started Borjan against Guadeloupe and Guatemala? Did he not have confidence in St. Clair and viewed Borjan as the best option to pick-up 6 points and qualify for the quarter-finals? Isn't it ironic that St. Clair came through in a must win situation, despite being Herdman's obvious second choice keeper? There seems to be no balance in the way Herdman is bringing younger players into the A team.

[Unnamed Trialist]

7 hours ago, MrR said:

I'm not going to judge whether A team or B team players underperformed? What I will bring up is why Herdman started Borjan against Guadeloupe and Guatemala? Did he not have confidence in St. Clair and viewed Borjan as the best option to pick-up 6 points and qualify for the quarter-finals? Isn't it ironic that St. Clair came through in a must win situation, despite being Herdman's obvious second choice keeper? There seems to be no balance in the way Herdman is bringing younger players into the A team.

You picked the worst example for your argument, I'd say. 

You play the first keeper, the one who has experience and who has proven to be reliable. Who is also captain. You don't sit him on the bench. Imagine if he'd sat Borjan and St Clair had not come through, what a mess.

If anything, since Borjan was looking for this loan deal, they should have left him off the GC roster and gone with St Clair and brought in a third keeper from amongst guys who could cover and are not playing, like Hasal.

Anyways, saying St. Clair "came through" when he took a bonehead penalty to put Cuba back into the game and screw our goal average is a bit of a stretch.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist

[MrR]

39 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Anyways, saying St. Clair "came through" when he took a bonehead penalty to put Cuba back into the game and screw our goal average is a bit of a stretch.

The bottom line is: Canada got the win it needed to advance with St. Clair in goal. And BTW, St. Clair's boner was nothing compared to Borjan's limp-dick assist on Hakim Ziyech's goal at the World Cup.

[DeRo_Is_King]

FWIW, here's the presser from yesterday. Don't know if it's been posted anywhere else on this board. Not much was revealed, but Herdman mentions the NL loss and seems to be a bit more grounded ahead of today's game:

 

[MrR]

A win today should see the passing of the torch in goal.