Herdman new head coach

[Free kick]

The opposition in Group F really scouted us well.  If we look at the last three games, I had never seen (in WCQ) situations whereby our width was nullified.  But in these three games, rarely did we see our wide players in a one v one situation.  Except on the goal we scored against Croatia.   TB did pretty well none the less but both he and Davies were often found in situations up against two or more markers.  Davies too often would try to beat two to three defenders.   The opposition also sat back and played direct and/or waited for turnovers to pounce on and expose the slow pace of some of our defenders or d-mids.  That also nullified our counter attacking strength and forces us to play into the middle.   I think, Oso should have started against Belgium because we needed to be able to create something off of the buildup and into the middle of the pitch and have the opposition respect that. 

 

PS.:  Having said all that, the defensive lapse and miscues were still the number one issue in these three games

Edited December 2, 2022 by Free kick

[Kadenge]

This WC was new territory for him and at times he looked a bit lost. In the Belgium game our forwards were giddy finding themselves in positions to score and were not composed in their first game on the big stage. Going with 2 mids v Croatia & Morrocco was  very disappointing though given the tactical flexibility during WCQ. There's a lot of learning for the whole group. Players will improve at their clubs but John needs to upgrade some of his staff. 

[Kadenge]

8 minutes ago, Free kick said:

The opposition in Group F really scouted us well.  If we look at the last three games, I had never seen (in WCQ) situations whereby our width was nullified.  But in these three games, rarely did we see our wide players in a one v one situation.  Except on the goal we scored against Croatia.   TB did pretty well none the less but both he and Davies were often found in situations up against two or more markers.  Davies too often would try to beat two to three defenders.   The opposition also sat back and played direct and/or waited for turnovers to pounce on and expose the slow pace of some of our defenders or d-mids.  That also nullified our counter attacking strength and forces to play into the middle.   I think, Oso should have started against Belgium because we needed to be able to create something off of the buildup and into the middle of the pitch and have the opposition respect that. 

 

PS.:  Having said all that, the defensive lapse and miscues were still the number one issue in these three games

This exactly. Other than perhaps Belgium where we had lots of opportunities, our vaunted speed was neutralized on the flanks. The inability to play through the middle with 2 mids turned us into a one trick pony v Croatia and Morrocco

[Free kick]

2 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

This exactly. Other than perhaps Belgium where we had lots of opportunities, our vaunted speed was neutralized on the flanks. The inability to play through the middle with 2 mids turned us into a one trick pony v Croatia and Morrocco

I was puzzled by the inclusion of Hoilett instead of Oso in that game.   Hoilett has a lot to offer but in that game, his skill set was redundant.  He would have been perfect as sub coming in later.  

[gator]

The bottom line is Herdman underperformed just as many of our players did, of course the competition was tougher, I would have traded places with any other pot 4 team, it is a time for reflection and JH has shown he can learn from mistakes! I will say some of the problems in the last 2 matches were players not being played in good positions, Belgium was fine, the problem there was lack of clinical finishing!

[Gian-Luca]

49 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

This exactly. Other than perhaps Belgium where we had lots of opportunities, our vaunted speed was neutralized on the flanks. The inability to play through the middle with 2 mids turned us into a one trick pony v Croatia and Morrocco

Part of this is that we went behind in the first half of every game, so teams were able to play more defensively against us and not risk guys going forward, enabling them to double-up in the 2nd half of all three games.

As much as people are singing the woes about the missed scoring chances, it's usually much harder to score when the opposition has the lead, so our defensive miscues (and goalkeeping in the case of the Morocco match) ended up contributing to that. Perhaps the most disappointing aspect of the overall performance is that we trailed at halftime in all three matches. That can't happen again in 2026.

[rightback]

For me, a disappointing World Cup. We played at a level and achieved results below the talent available to us and that's on the coaching I think.

A few things, a lot already mentioned:

• Davies as LB vs. more forward. I don't think he works very well more forward and I'd like at least to see how the team would do if he was played as LB. He's one of the fastest players in the world, that might come in handy in defence and he can still bomb down the wing to contribute offensively.
• We have better dead ball players than Davies, the coach should make sure they're the ones being used. 
• This forum heavily favours a swashbuckling, attacking style of play...so do the players and the coaching staff. Exciting and fun, sure, but given our talent level, I'm dubious we'll ever get anywhere in a WC like that. WCQ, it's mostly OK...we've got plenty of firepower and pressing against that level of competition.
• I'm very disappointed for Piette, he deserved to get on the field in my opinion. Again, as to my point above, defensive play isn't much appreciated here.
• Losing Vitoria is going to be very bad news...I sure hope there's someone in the pipeline.
• I like Miller but he's not going to be getting any faster. Johnson's great and Celtic is a good level for him. Buchanan was the standout player for us I thought. David, nothing was working for him and he was great in WCQ, not sure what was going on there...a much higher level of competition I guess. Osorio exceeded my expectations in WCQ and WC. Hutch, love the guy but it was a bad call to put him in that Croatia game as it turned out...I can't really blame the coach for that but it was clearly a problem shortly into the game and Herdman should have pulled him early. 

As for Herdman, I'm not a fan. On the plus side, he's a good motivator, team-builder, he did good work getting some players into the program and he does show the ability to learn and adapt. On the down side, there's my opening sentence. I think we're stuck with him though, as others have mentioned, what's the alternative? I have to give him some credit that we got to the WC but, I think, he's had far more talent available to do so than historically so I'm not sure how much. I watched us play in '86, there's no comparison in ability.

It's been a wake up call, the players should be better in 4 years, let's hope the coaching is as well.

P.S. I thought that was a foul on Johnson. You can't do anything about a push when you're in the air and there's no way the defender was going for the ball.  He should have been drawing that to the referee's attention, probably wouldn't have changed anything as far as getting a call, but it's worth a try particularly with VAR now.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by rightback
typo

[BearcatSA]

I just felt we missed that extra central midfielder to clog up the middle, forcing the opponent to make more re-setting passes instead of getting on their horse after a progressive pass.  Also, they may have committed more guys to the attack, adding to our own pacy counterattacking threat.  

The route one defending was very disappointing. The same seagull who burned us vs Belgium was one a one pony trick who was easily dealt with by Morroco.  It exposed the limitations and ceiling of our defenders.  The back ups who didn't feature here aren't the answer going foward.  Kennedy's return from injury and development are keys for the immediate future.  Otherwise, we need some new blood to emerge.

[Free kick]

Oh and more thing.  Regarding the pre-WC friendlies, this one is on the CSA.  Other than the game versus Uruguay, we didn't face the kind of opponents that would have prepared us for what we saw against group F opponents.  The one against Uruguay was a good test and an ideal opponent but the others (Bahrain and Qatar) were almost useless.   Had we had another opponent (ideally a decent European side) Herdman could have implemented adjustments from what he learned from the game against Uruguay. 

I remember Nick Bontis on Sportsnet radio the days after the qualification telling us that his phone was ringing off the hook from all these top sides from around the world wanting to play against us.  Well, what happened with that?  

Edited December 2, 2022 by Free kick

[jonovision]

2 hours ago, rightback said:

For me, a disappointing World Cup. We played at a level and achieved results below the talent available to us and that's on the coaching I think.

Were we more talented than any of the teams in our group? Looking at the rosters you'd have to have pretty red-coloured glasses on to say yes.

[rightback]

10 minutes ago, jonovision said:

Were we more talented than any of the teams in our group? Looking at the rosters you'd have to have pretty red-coloured glasses on to say yes.

That's not exactly what I meant. I think if you put Australia (or a number of the other lower-tier teams) in our group, they get a point or more, and I think we've got at least as much talent as they have. 

 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 hour ago, Free kick said:

Oh and more thing.  Regarding the pre-WC friendlies, this one is on the CSA.  Other than the game versus Uruguay, we didn't face the kind of opponents that would have prepared us for what we saw against group F opponents.  The one against Uruguay was a good test and an ideal opponent but the others (Bahrain and Qatar) were almost useless.   Had we had another opponent (ideally a decent European side) Herdman could have implemented adjustments from what he learned from the game against Uruguay. 

I remember Nick Bontis on Sportsnet radio the days after the qualification telling us that his phone was ringing off the hook from all these top sides from around the world wanting to play against us.  Well, what happened with that?  

Japan, who advanced?

[SoCalTransport]

1 hour ago, Free kick said:

Oh and more thing.  Regarding the pre-WC friendlies, this one is on the CSA.  Other than the game versus Uruguay, we didn't face the kind of opponents that would have prepared us for what we saw against group F opponents.  The one against Uruguay was a good test and an ideal opponent but the others (Bahrain and Qatar) were almost useless.   Had we had another opponent (ideally a decent European side) Herdman could have implemented adjustments from what he learned from the game against Uruguay. 

I remember Nick Bontis on Sportsnet radio the days after the qualification telling us that his phone was ringing off the hook from all these top sides from around the world wanting to play against us.  Well, what happened with that?  

CSA didn't want to pay, it was simple as that.

[Free kick]

33 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Japan, who advanced?

True.  But by all accounts they weren't playing their first team

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

3 hours ago, rightback said:

...This forum heavily favours a swashbuckling, attacking style of play...so do the players and the coaching staff. Exciting and fun, sure, but given our talent level, I'm dubious we'll ever get anywhere in a WC like that. WCQ, it's mostly OK...we've got plenty of firepower and pressing against that level of competition...

Perhaps worth bearing in mind that WCQ isn't happening again for this team until around 2028 when most of the current roster will be the wrong side of 30. Ending up with zero points is not what gets people excited about the sport so careful consideration needs to be given as to whether Herdman is still the right man for the job where 2026 is concerned if he doesn't plan to adjust his approach.

[VinceA]

28 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Perhaps worth bearing in mind that WCQ isn't happening again for this team until around 2028 when most of the current roster will be the wrong side of 30. Ending up with zero points is not what gets people excited about the sport so careful consideration needs to be given as to whether Herdman is still the right man for the job where 2026 is concerned if he doesn't plan to adjust his approach.

I'll give Herdman the benefit of the doubt here as 2019 ended poorly with that humbling 4-1 loss to the USA and then boom semi-finals of the GC and a strong WCQ where he played to our teams strengths. With the emergence of more talents I think he'll adapt.

[ob1]

2 hours ago, rightback said:

That's not exactly what I meant. I think if you put Australia (or a number of the other lower-tier teams) in our group, they get a point or more, and I think we've got at least as much talent as they have. 

 

I’m not sure how you come to that conclusion but maybe by your math one could also say, if Canada was in any other group we could have gotten a point or 3 perhaps maybe we would have advanced?

[jhoops__]

1 hour ago, SoCalTransport said:

CSA didn't want to pay, it was simple as that.

This is simply not true.   All of the euro sides had nations league in their pre WC window so it was impossible to have a match with any of them.

[rightback]

11 minutes ago, ob1 said:

I’m not sure how you come to that conclusion but maybe by your math one could also say, if Canada was in any other group we could have gotten a point or 3 perhaps maybe we would have advanced?

Hey, it's just my subjective observation, nothing scientific 🙂 

According to ELO rankings, the weakest group this year was Netherlands, Ecuador, Senegal, Qatar, If we take Qatar's place, I don't see us winning any of those games and there's a good chance we lose all three based on the games I saw. I thought Ecuador and Senegal were pretty darn good and Netherlands is at another level above those two.

 

[Floortom]

Pretending that we had the group of death just so we can cope with failing to get a result is ridiculous. 

[jonovision]

15 minutes ago, rightback said:

Hey, it's just my subjective observation, nothing scientific 🙂 

According to ELO rankings, the weakest group this year was Netherlands, Ecuador, Senegal, Qatar, If we take Qatar's place, I don't see us winning any of those games and there's a good chance we lose all three based on the games I saw. I thought Ecuador and Senegal were pretty darn good and Netherlands is at another level above those two.

 

Netherlands may have been a level above those other two, but this is not a good Netherlands team. I suspect we will see evidence of that tomorrow morning.

[ob1]

15 minutes ago, rightback said:

Hey, it's just my subjective observation, nothing scientific 🙂 

According to ELO rankings, the weakest group this year was Netherlands, Ecuador, Senegal, Qatar, If we take Qatar's place, I don't see us winning any of those games and there's a good chance we lose all three based on the games I saw. I thought Ecuador and Senegal were pretty darn good and Netherlands is at another level above those two.

 

I hear ya
I'm just trying to point out, that any kind of comparison of groups is futile. There are a million things that can happen in a match that could alter the outcome. To me it just doesn't make sense to even try to say "what if" we played in Group A,B,C

I also don't buy the "we were the 2nd worst team" for the same reason, this is not a "league" we didn't player every team or 31 games we have no clue how we would have done against any other team (although I'm pretty sure we would have beaten the US and Mexico ...again 😀).

So look at the results against who we did play is the only "real" thing we can do anything else is just pie in the sky.

Although I wanted more, and I expected more, at the end of the day I am happy with how we played for 2 of the matches, and most of all I can see us learning and growing from this. 

 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

2 hours ago, Free kick said:

True.  But by all accounts they weren't playing their first team

That's not down to the CSA, though.

[gator]

27 minutes ago, ob1 said:

 

Although I wanted more, and I expected more, at the end of the day I am happy with how we played for 2 of the matches, and most of all I can see us learning and growing from this. 

 

I am reasonably pleased with how we played vs Belgium and the 2nd half yesterday although Morocco could have lost and still advanced, we did go for it and maybe deserved better! Croatia (although we scored our 1st WC goal) and the 1st half yesterday were somewhat disastrous in my opinion!

[Kadenge]

We still need Herdman to build our soccer infrastructure and pathway for young Canadians. I hope he upgrades some of his staff to help with the tactical side and set plays.  Long term would love to see him as head of the CSA with appropriate renumeration. In fact I wouldn't be against that happening sooner.