Herdman new head coach

[VinceA]

33 minutes ago, Free kick said:

Buchanan was our best player.   Atiba really showed his age in this WC and we see now why he is not getting any minutes at the club level.   We were terrific in WCQ when either of David and Larin started.  

I could see an argument for my last point but certainly not the first two.  Some of our best games in WCQ were when Atiba was not available.  Look, the guy is a legend and we need to respect everything he has done.   But even wayne gretzky in his final year in the NHL was not very good.

Also, players prefer to start rather than come off the bench.  Its harder to make an impact coming off the bench so no coach "saves weapons on the bench".  What kind of message are you sending when you ask your best performer to come off the bench? 

 

22 minutes ago, king1010 said:

No way Buchanan can be left off. He was one of our best players this world cup. 

Okay then start Tajon on the right instead of Laryea its not a big deal lol. My point more is for the formation than the personnel.

[gator]

I think it was a serious error not playing Davies as a LWB as he plays at Bayern, he seems to be better offensively running in space on the wing and we certainly could have used his recovery speed in the back! We were thin at midfield to begin with and then Stack got hurt and Atiba was gassed, Kone showed well and Osorio was decent in link up play, I think this will be a position of strength moving forward!

[Ed_S]

6 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

Credit to the TSN panel - they are offering some very fair and full critical analysis of Herdman.  Becky even noted he still needs more experience coaching the Mens game (even though some rejected the idea that there could be any difference way back when he was appointed).   Questioning whether or not his motivational techniques can be sustained over the long term (for another 4 years). And frank analysis of the tactical missteps.  

I don't agree at all. You could be the most casual fan and see it was not our midfield performance or set up today. The loss was down to poor play by our centrebacks and one of the worst goalkeeping performances I've seen from the CMNT.

[Ed_S]

8 minutes ago, Ed_S said:

I don't agree at all. You could be the most casual fan and see it was not our midfield performance or set up today. The loss was down to poor play by our centrebacks and one of the worst goalkeeping performances I've seen from the CMNT.

And, the huge step down in quality after Eustaquio's injury caught up with him around the 40 minute mark of game 2. He may not be the most celebrated player on this version of the CMNT but certainly one of the, if not the,  most important players in our system.

[Stoppage Time]

My concern over the three games was Herdman's inconsistent ability to read and correct tactical issues during the match. To be fair, he largely got it right against Belgium except for the selection of penalty taker (clearly and obviously needed to be somebody who takes lots of penalties such as David or Vitoria). Against Croatia, there were a few issues;

1) Continuing to play two in the midfield which was getting completely overrun by Croatia;

2) Playing Hutchinson to exhaustion when he clearly could not keep up. Hutchinson when rested is good for 45 minutes of fine play and not much more. He is 39 so his limits should be respected.

3) Continuing to play Davies up front when he clearly plays better at FB or at LWB - many of you have pointed this out. You are correct, and who are we to argue with the coaching staff at Bayern?

4) Allowing Johnston to remain over matched at RB against craftier and speedier attackers.

5) 3-5-2 allows for strong coverage in the midfield, two wing backs, an effective three or four person press, six or seven players always ready to defend and a fluid ability to transition between defending and attacking and back again.

I will assume that Herdman will learn how to solve such problems against strong opposition, so in my book, he gets until Gold Cup. If we crash out with a strong squad, then he will need to be replaced in plenty of time to uncover a strong, experienced tactician. He has had some success, for sure, but we cannot afford to reward any future failure as our growth needs to continue unabated.

 

 

[gator]

21 minutes ago, Stoppage Time said:

My concern over the three games was Herdman's inconsistent ability to read and correct tactical issues during the match. To be fair, he largely got it right against Belgium except for the selection of penalty taker (clearly and obviously needed to be somebody who takes lots of penalties such as David or Vitoria). Against Croatia, there were a few issues;

1) Continuing to play two in the midfield which was getting completely overrun by Croatia;

2) Playing Hutchinson to exhaustion when he clearly could not keep up. Hutchinson when rested is good for 45 minutes of fine play and not much more. He is 39 so his limits should be respected.

3) Continuing to play Davies up front when he clearly plays better at FB or at LWB - many of you have pointed this out. You are correct, and who are we to argue with the coaching staff at Bayern?

4) Allowing Johnston to remain over matched at RB against craftier and speedier attackers.

5) 3-5-2 allows for strong coverage in the midfield, two wing backs, an effective three or four person press, six or seven players always ready to defend and a fluid ability to transition between defending and attacking and back again.

I will assume that Herdman will learn how to solve such problems against strong opposition, so in my book, he gets until Gold Cup. If we crash out with a strong squad, then he will need to be replaced in plenty of time to uncover a strong, experienced tactician. He has had some success, for sure, but we cannot afford to reward any future failure as our growth needs to continue unabated.

 

 

I agree with most of what you said and the bolded part might seem harsh and will get you lots of hate on here, we shall see!

[mpg_29]

41 minutes ago, Stoppage Time said:

My concern over the three games was Herdman's inconsistent ability to read and correct tactical issues during the match. To be fair, he largely got it right against Belgium except for the selection of penalty taker (clearly and obviously needed to be somebody who takes lots of penalties such as David or Vitoria). Against Croatia, there were a few issues;

1) Continuing to play two in the midfield which was getting completely overrun by Croatia;

2) Playing Hutchinson to exhaustion when he clearly could not keep up. Hutchinson when rested is good for 45 minutes of fine play and not much more. He is 39 so his limits should be respected.

3) Continuing to play Davies up front when he clearly plays better at FB or at LWB - many of you have pointed this out. You are correct, and who are we to argue with the coaching staff at Bayern?

4) Allowing Johnston to remain over matched at RB against craftier and speedier attackers.

5) 3-5-2 allows for strong coverage in the midfield, two wing backs, an effective three or four person press, six or seven players always ready to defend and a fluid ability to transition between defending and attacking and back again.

I will assume that Herdman will learn how to solve such problems against strong opposition, so in my book, he gets until Gold Cup. If we crash out with a strong squad, then he will need to be replaced in plenty of time to uncover a strong, experienced tactician. He has had some success, for sure, but we cannot afford to reward any future failure as our growth needs to continue unabated.

 

 

Maybe I'm misremembering but I thought there was some sort of switch with Johnston and Buchannan in the first half against Croatia.

[Ed_S]

56 minutes ago, gator said:

I agree with most of what you said and the bolded part might seem harsh and will get you lots of hate on here, we shall see!

To shorten the thread length, just quoting you. I agree with the 1st three points, but only re the Croatia game. The problems today were laid out in my post earlier, leaving us 2 down quite early. It's not on the midfield - squarely on Borjan and some sloppy centre back play which I hate to have to say, as they were largely inpenetrable in qualifying.

[costarg]

8 hours ago, VinceA said:

This is all I wanted John, was it that hard to do?

What, bench our most dominant player in Tajon?  That's the solution?  

I like adding a mid, which was the obvious mistake, but the bigger mistake was too many players up top.  3-4-3 was ridiculously arrogant, and 3-5-2 equally niave.  Two strikers is pointless, they'll never get the ball, like we saw vs Croatia.  

[Gian-Luca]

For me, Herdman was the most disappointing performer in the World Cup for Canada. But he did get us to the big dance. We need to continue to improve our level for 3.5 years from now, and that includes our coaching tactics. Hopefully Herdman can demonstrate that he can do this. Gold Cup victory has to be the next target to achieve

[VinceA]

11 minutes ago, costarg said:

What, bench our most dominant player in Tajon?  That's the solution?  

I like adding a mid, which was the obvious mistake, but the bigger mistake was too many players up top.  3-4-3 was ridiculously arrogant, and 3-5-2 equally niave.  Two strikers is pointless, they'll never get the ball, like we saw vs Croatia.  

Then fine put Tajon on for Laryea. Y'all take this way too hard.

[Stoppage Time]

18 minutes ago, Ed_S said:

To shorten the thread length, just quoting you. I agree with the 1st three points, but only re the Croatia game. The problems today were laid out in my post earlier, leaving us 2 down quite early. It's not on the midfield - squarely on Borjan and some sloppy centre back play which I hate to have to say, as they were largely inpenetrable in qualifying.

Should the defence have been switched up a little - fresh legs of Cornelius or Waterman getting a start for one of the two tired CB's?

[Ed_S]

2 minutes ago, Stoppage Time said:

Should the defence have been switched up a little - fresh legs of Cornelius or Waterman getting a start for one of the two tired CB's?

That's a good question. We probably had our top 3 out there. I thought Johnston was his usual very good self. Vittoria and Miller have had better games and Borjan just awful. Our attacking options are terrific and we will continue to have tons of options. Defending is where we have issues against WC quality teams. Hopefully with CPL, we can actually long-term invest in grooming centre backs. We have some good keepers coming on as well. 

[Bison44]

18 minutes ago, Stoppage Time said:

Should the defence have been switched up a little - fresh legs of Cornelius or Waterman getting a start for one of the two tired CB's?

Nah...I didnt think they looked tired, they just lacked pace to keep up with the over the top ball when playing the high line,  Same with the goal against Belgium, good long balls, excellent touches from the striker and they buried what was probably a half chance.  Now you can say thats a bad play by a slow CB, or just that was a heck of a play by a side that is really good, if you can make that play you deserve that goal.  Other than that I dont think they played poorly they just got burend by a excellent play that took advantage of their weak spots.  I thought Miller was pretty good today and didnt hurt his chances to maybe take a step up. Or at least feel good about having another big season in MLS.  

[Stryker911]

The one thing I will say in Herdmans defence. It is only recently where fans are saying Davies should be playing at LB. Noone on here, myself included, wanted him playing there a year or 2 ago. We all thought he was more important up the field. 

[Bison44]

I wonder if that has anything to do with him being groomed, trained and gotten all this experience at LB??  Thats become his position, he has become very good at it.  I'm sure if they switched him to striker 4 years ago he would be pretty good at that too, by now.  Hell if they switched him over to figure skating 4 years ago he would have figured that out too.  

[PopePouri]

36 minutes ago, Stryker911 said:

The one thing I will say in Herdmans defence. It is only recently where fans are saying Davies should be playing at LB. Noone on here, myself included, wanted him playing there a year or 2 ago. We all thought he was more important up the field. 

I don't think that's true. There always been a contigent that wanted him deeper. Oli Platt and KJ commented back during the Bermuda game that he was excellent because Adekugbe basically played in a back 3 and that allowed Davies to dominate the left side. He wasn't playing with this back to goal. He needs space and an open field.

The whole "Davies at LB" concept has been construed badly due to his poor performance against the US. A lot of people forget his poor performance at LW against Cuba at home during the same Nations League cycle. 

Now the Panama goal is getting overplayed as a reason to keep him up the field, but he has had some mediore and poor performances during the Oct as well. 

To be honest, I'm fine with him up the field as long as we play a mid block or low block, and we move the ball quicker in transition.

Edited December 2, 2022 by PopePouri

[top cheese]

I think the most frustrating thing about this world cup from Canada is that they quite possibly could have gone through in this group. A win against Belgium was attainable, we certainly could have got a result under the right circumstances against Croatia, and a result against morroco today was certainly a possibility. 

Canada was the CONCACAF champion, yet we came to the WC with the attitude that we were just happy to be here. All the other team including the smallest nations came to win. Why was all the concepts that made Canada successful in CONCACAF just thrown out the window during the WC. Trust in squad rotation, Tactical Flexability, Players playing there role, low block and counterattacking. 

I dont believe Herdman should be fired but there was a lot of non sensical things in this WC. Yes, he and his staff put in place common sense cultural changes to make this a proper national team. But with the list of players the team had they should easily qualify in CONCACAF. It will be interesting to see what direction this team goes in for the next four years. There will be more young players emerge to play in better teams. I just wonder if we want to do well at this level a more experienced manager is hired for 2026

[Watchmen]

3 hours ago, Stoppage Time said:

Should the defence have been switched up a little - fresh legs of Cornelius or Waterman getting a start for one of the two tired CB's?

No.  Waterman was getting abused by Bahrain.  He's not up to this level.  I don't think Cornelius has the pace for 3 at the back either.

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, top cheese said:

Canada was the CONCACAF champion, yet we came to the WC with the attitude that we were just happy to be here. All the other team including the smallest nations came to win. Why was all the concepts that made Canada successful in CONCACAF just thrown out the window during the WC. Trust in squad rotation, Tactical Flexability, Players playing there role, low block and counterattacking. 

I don't think this is true at all.  In fact, I think it's the opposite: that they thought it might be a bit easier than it turned out to be.  And when it turned out to be tougher (and things weren't going there way), that's when they started to get in to trouble.  I didn't think they quit in Belgium or Morocco game, but they were shell shocked against Croatia.

[An Observer]

52 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I don't think this is true at all.  In fact, I think it's the opposite: that they thought it might be a bit easier than it turned out to be.  And when it turned out to be tougher (and things weren't going there way), that's when they started to get in to trouble.  I didn't think they quit in Belgium or Morocco game, but they were shell shocked against Croatia.

I agree with this.  If anything, we were over confident in our abilities. The Belgian match made that even more pronounced in spite of the loss (and probably the fact that we just matched up against them well due to our youth, speed and their slow D).  And that meant we set up completely wrong for Croatia and let a team that didn’t get a goal against the other 2 in the group, pump 4 by us. At that point, we were done and clearly in the first half against Morocco you saw a side very low on confidence (and two keeper blunders, one glorious). It was to their character that they played their hearts out in the second half but to no avail. 

[DeRo_Is_King]

2 hours ago, Watchmen said:

I don't think this is true at all.  In fact, I think it's the opposite: that they thought it might be a bit easier than it turned out to be.  And when it turned out to be tougher (and things weren't going there way), that's when they started to get in to trouble.  I didn't think they quit in Belgium or Morocco game, but they were shell shocked against Croatia.

Not sure how the players felt, but TSN definitely made it seem like it was OK for Canada to just be there before the Belgium game. One particular example of this was the clip asking our guys about sharing the field with KDB. I mean, they already share a field with Alphonso Davies, so I'm not sure why TSN thought it was a good idea to put KDB on a pedestal.

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 hours ago, Bison44 said:

I wonder if that has anything to do with him being groomed, trained and gotten all this experience at LB??  Thats become his position, he has become very good at it.  I'm sure if they switched him to striker 4 years ago he would be pretty good at that too, by now. 

No doubt, but he would have had to learn the role at Bayern.

BM signed him as an attacker and played him that way a few games. Including on the right, where is where I like him. He was signed thinking about losing Ribery and Arjen Robben.

Bayern actually picked up the fact that Carl Robinson had played him at LB for Whitecaps, even left mid or wingback, so clubs learn from clubs.

[dyslexic nam]

8 hours ago, Stryker911 said:

The one thing I will say in Herdmans defence. It is only recently where fans are saying Davies should be playing at LB. Noone on here, myself included, wanted him playing there a year or 2 ago. We all thought he was more important up the field. 

I was going to point this out but then didn’t want to deal with the fallout lol.  There were tons of posts over the last two years how it would be a waste of Davies’ attacking attributes if Herdman was to use him in a primarily defensive role.  

[ECW]

8 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I was going to point this out but then didn’t want to deal with the fallout lol.  There were tons of posts over the last two years how it would be a waste of Davies’ attacking attributes if Herdman was to use him in a primarily defensive role.  

I’ve never thought so. In fact we lose Davies as an attacking threat when we play him as a midfielder or a striker. He attacks best as a LWB, that is pretty clear.