Herdman new head coach

[mpg_29]

Herdman brings enthusiasm and stability which is precisely what we needed for the NT. It would be better to surround him with the best assistant coaches than bring in a new coach imo. Especially compared to foreign coach who would have little ties the country(yeah Herdman is foreign but he has been involved with the CSA for over a decade now) 

To me a lot more of Canada's progress hinges on the CPL and continuing a pipeline for younger players.

I dunno maybe Herdman will hit a wall at some point but I don't think it's now.

[finchster]

If Canada loses to Honduras in the nations league and/or doesn't reach the semi-finals of the Gold Cup, I think Canada needs to find a new coach.

 

I Love him for what he has done, but his coaching at the WC was amateur hour; "F-Croatia", "I let the players decide who takes the penalty", and "Atiba wanted to stay on".

 

While going to the world cup is great, we need a good showing in the last game too. We are tied with Qatar for the worst team in the WC. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by finchster

[Sal333]

11 hours ago, xcalibre said:

Yeah, you wonder if he's reached his limit, and anyone coaching the MNT by the next camp should be the long-term plan for 2026.

Love Herdman but he seemed a bit overwhelmed by the big stage, making weird omissions (not preparing for penalties) and tactical miscues.

I know Ancelotti makes very little sense other than the Vancouver connection (and you can't imagine the CSA having anywhere near the degree of competence to make it happen) but at least he'd be a calming influence in high-pressure moments like this

Let's say we manage to convince Ancelotti, how long do you think he'll put up with the bush league antics of that dysfunctional Association?

[VinceA]

I'm interested to see if there's any sort of resentment that develps in camp over how Herdman managed the mdifield Personnel. If I'm a fit CM and I'm glued to the bench because in Herdman's mind a non-fit Atiba and Staq are such better options than me and that is followed by a demolition from Croatia all over the midfield I'd be kind of annoyed. We're out after two games and 50% of our CMs haven't seen the pitch at all. Including guys like Wotherspoon who Herdman was creaming his pants apparently for.

Will test the brotherhood.

[jhoops__]

I couldn’t believe Hutch came out for the 2nd half.   Dude was huffing and puffing.

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, finchster said:

If Canada loses to Honduras in the nations league and/or doesn't reach the semi-finals of the Gold Cup, I think Canada needs to find a new coach.

 

I Love him for what he has done, but his coaching at the WC was amateur hour; "F-Croatia", "I let the players decide who takes the penalty", and "Atiba wanted to stay on".

 

While going to the world cup is great, we need a good showing in the last game too. We are tied with Qatar for the worst team in the WC. 

First impression is that this is a little harsh, but I think if we go winless (resultless?) at the World Cup, lose a stupid game against Honduras and flames out at the Gold Cup, all of a sudden, those 6 straight octo wins start looking more like a team temporarily playing above their level than a new team busting down the door.

I think the PK thing was fine, and the croatia comment was a hot mic that shouldn't have picked it up, but the Atiba thing was a head scratcher. I don't think the result changes much if he exits at half time though.

 

My concern with getting a new coach is that we're at the stage where we need a guy who's not only a good coach, but can invest in building our infrastructure and making sure it's a sustainable operation through the next generation. Feel like a lot of international coaches are either celebrities looking to take on a pre-made team, or coaches looking for a stepping stone to a better gig. Herdman was perfect because he'd probably be content working at Canada soccer for the next 15 years and leave the program in a really good shape. Not sure a guy like Ancelotti or similar choices would prioritize something like that.

[finchster]

7 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

First impression is that this is a little harsh, but I think if we go winless (resultless?) at the World Cup, lose a stupid game against Honduras and flames out at the Gold Cup, all of a sudden, those 6 straight octo wins start looking more like a team temporarily playing above their level than a new team busting down the door.

I think the PK thing was fine, and the croatia comment was a hot mic that shouldn't have picked it up, but the Atiba thing was a head scratcher. I don't think the result changes much if he exits at half time though.

 

My concern with getting a new coach is that we're at the stage where we need a guy who's not only a good coach, but can invest in building our infrastructure and making sure it's a sustainable operation through the next generation. Feel like a lot of international coaches are either celebrities looking to take on a pre-made team, or coaches looking for a stepping stone to a better gig. Herdman was perfect because he'd probably be content working at Canada soccer for the next 15 years and leave the program in a really good shape. Not sure a guy like Ancelotti or similar choices would prioritize something like that.

I agree it could be hard to find a manager who wants to build a national program, but Herdman has laid the groundwork. Canada wouldn't need Heardman 2.0, but Herdman lite.

I like Herdman more than I dislike him, and I don't want to fire him. However, sometimes a confluence of factors goes a team's way. As of today, if you look at the teams from CONCACAF, no team is going to the next round. There are games left, but perhaps Canada overperformed for a time, and other nations were in a down period.

I hope it isn't the case and Canada has turned the page, but a few bad results might illustrate otherwise.

Whatever happens, Herdman is a legend and needs a statue, but better results create higher expectations.

[ob1]

Herdman is by far and wide the best coach we have ever had, no question about it. He is 100% exactly what we needed at this time and for an association with a lack of funds we were very lucky to get him. 

I've been saying for years upon years, There where many times in last 30 years Canada's biggest issue in progressing had more to do with psychology then skill and strategy. We have had some decent teams that should have shown better in qualifying and in Gold cups, only to be undone by lack of mental fortitude. I would have been happy with Tony Robbins coaching this team, instead we got someone similar who actually knows a lot about soccer.

This was never going to be an easy task, and I think there are a lot of people on this forum who have either raised their expectations a little to high, or do not understand the history of the long road to get here. 

I also think for all us back seat driving armchair QB's it is so easy to pick apart a game afterwards, I mean some of the comments in game about tactics even when we win are absolutely absurd . But to think you or I, or anyone could do better is wishful thinking, the grass is not always greener. 

We would be fools to toss him aside now, and I'm pretty sure most if not all of the team would agree. He got us to where we all wanted, to where our benchmark for a manager has been set for years, and he did it perhaps sooner than expected. 

I for one am happy with everything he has done and instilled in this team, I believe in him and believe we will continue the upward trajectory. 

Yes, every coach has a lifespan, however we are just not there yet.

Be careful what you wish for, as others have pointed out, the fragility and often ineptitude of the CSA can destroy what has been built in a blink of an eye 

[jonovision]

1 hour ago, jhoops__ said:

I couldn’t believe Hutch came out for the 2nd half.   Dude was huffing and puffing.

Strangely, Hutchinson's lack of pace was far less noticeable in the second half.

[frmr]

I can only imagine the dumpster fire that has been this thread. Not even going to have a peek.

[An Observer]

30 minutes ago, jonovision said:

Strangely, Hutchinson's lack of pace was far less noticeable in the second half.

Because we played 3 in the midfield and they just played us on the counter as they knew we needed to come onto them

[VinceA]

7 minutes ago, An Observer said:

Because we played 3 in the midfield and they just played us on the counter as they knew we needed to come onto them

Yep Croatia were initially bamboozled by Osorio.

[The Ref]

To use Herdman's lingo, eeF Herdman!

[Meepmeep]

18 hours ago, Califax said:

It’s difficult I’ve never really liked Herdman at all. But obviously he was the guy to get us there in full credit for doing so. I was dead wrong. 
 

If he decides to go a different way and we get someone else who is a little bit more of a tactician and less of a cheerleader, I think it’ll do the program wonders. Then again I might be dead wrong about that too.

I agree with this. 
Full credit for bringing what we were told was a fractured group together. 
Massive credit for getting the players to buy in and qualify.  He’s a legend for that alone. 
 

That said: swords, ted talks and gimmicky mind games get old fast with adults.  It’s even worse when you bombarded with it for an extended period of time (which is why I think he’d be a horrible club manager). 
 

Heres hoping he’s got enough capital in the bank with the team to be able to hang on a bit longer.  While I think we’re close to needing a different type of manager to get to the next level holy crapballs this bird in the hand is a majestic freaking eagle considering the amateur hour at the CSA will be hiring his replacement.  

Edited November 28, 2022 by Meepmeep

[Watchmen]

Not sure if it got posted earlier, but it's a good read. Essentially, heart can get you through CONCACAF but you need your head at the World Cup, and Herdman's over reliance on emotion cost them here.

 

[kingvikingstad]

30 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Not sure if it got posted earlier, but it's a good read. Essentially, heart can get you through CONCACAF but you need your head at the World Cup, and Herdman's over reliance on emotion cost them here.

 

I wont go over what was in the article, byt suffice to say I think it sums up many of my thoughts well. Just felt a bit amateur hour at times. There's a fine line between empowering people and losing sight of the fact that you're responsible to an entire group of people, not just one person. 

I think John is a smart guy who will recalibrate after this world cup. He'll have lots of time to reconsider his approach, evaluate his own performance and set us up for the next two years, then the two after that. 

I've been watching for a long time, and John is responsible for every great CMNT memory post-2000. He deserves the opportunity to grow as a Manager and prove at the GC and/or CA that he can take us to the next step. From what we've seen of John, he will find a way to succeed! 

This is an aside, but I think it's a must, not a want, that we find our way into the 2024 COPA! 

[footballfreak]

I don’t want to rehash too much of what has been said already. I’m generally supportive of Herdman staying, with one major caveat:

After the World Cup is over, he needs to start reaching out to the players who ended up outside the “brotherhood”. I understand why he wanted a small, tight knit group for the gauntlet of qualifying, but now (or post GC) is the time we need to give opportunities to less established players. The guys on the outside looking in, particularly the dual nationals with other options, need to see a path into the fold. If Herdman is unable or unwilling to bridge the divide between HIS guys and the castoffs, then he needs to go.

Edited November 28, 2022 by footballfreak

[Ansem]

More opinions on the game. I have to agree, tactically this was brutal and the guys weren't set up to win

2 CM midfield against Croatia (one's 39)... love Hutchinson but still the wrong decision

 

[The Beaver 2.0]

If Herdman has the humility to acknowledge his mistakes and limitations, the desire to grow, and the drive to keep pushing this program forward, then good things will come. He will have a ceiling, but one cannot know where that sits until you've hit it. He is still a young man, relatively speaking, and he has certainly earned his keep.  It is his job to lose. 

We ALL knew that this WC was going to be a massive opportunity for growth, learning, and experience. That goes for Herdman and his staff as much as it does for our players.  We've come so far, so fast, but we are not done building and growing. I want us to be ranked in around #20 by the time the next WC rolls into town (ALL Canadian games at BC Place!!!) That is a lofty but reasonable goal.  The first step on that journey is our game vs. Morocco on Thursday. I am excited to see how Herdman and the lads apply everything they've been learning this WC in that game.

 

 

[gator]

Herdman is getting off pretty easy here with just a couple of posters on this supporter's board politely questioning his tactics, there were many mistakes made, in more established soccer nations the headlines of the papers would be screaming out about it, maybe that's why we are likely to have him for 4 more years regardless of what he does or doesn't do!

[VinceA]

4 minutes ago, gator said:

Herdman is getting off pretty easy here with just a couple of posters on this supporter's board politely questioning his tactics, there were many mistakes made, in more established soccer nations the headlines of the papers would be screaming out about it, maybe that's why we are likely to have him for 4 more years regardless of what he does or doesn't do!

That Crates dude on Twitter brought up a good point in that calling for his head after one game after all the good he did is pretty ridiculous and reactionary. He's right.

I'm not happy about how that game turned out but I'm also not going to hang his entire tenure on a game against the 2018 WC runners-up.

If we flame out of the GC next year then we can have a proper convo on Herdman.

[jonovision]

14 minutes ago, gator said:

Herdman is getting off pretty easy here with just a couple of posters on this supporter's board politely questioning his tactics, there were many mistakes made, in more established soccer nations the headlines of the papers would be screaming out about it, maybe that's why we are likely to have him for 4 more years regardless of what he does or doesn't do!

If you read through the match thread from yesterday you'll find that questioning (or downright denigrating) his tactics is the majority opinion. Which is fair.

But I'm not ready to call for an inquisition just because we lost two matches we should have been expected to lose.

Edited November 28, 2022 by jonovision

[Lurker]

It shouldn’t be over looked that we should all be hoping Herdman stays.  It’s his call 100%.  If you think Bontis and the CSA are going to woe in a better replacement then your very hopeful.

I surely hope he considers this unfinished business and returns until the end of the World Cup in 2026.

We need to find a way into Copa America and aim to win the Nations League and/or Gold Cup along the way.  I don’t see a way to more meaningful Euro games but with the tournament growing we may avoid the tough groups in the future giving us more time to grow into the competition.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Lurker

[gator]

21 minutes ago, jonovision said:

If you read through the match thread from yesterday you'll find that questioning (or downright denigrating) his tactics is the majority opinion. Which is fair.

But I'm not ready to call for an inquisition just because we lost two matches we should have been expected to lose.

I haven't really read through the match thread and didn't contribute because I was too busy watching every moment of the game, those things tend to be more reactionary especially when things aren't going our way! I think it is important to have a good discussion upon reflection after a bit of time goes by, less emotions involved! It isn't just the 2 losses as underdogs that bother me btw!

[The Ref]

The old nickname The Preacher I had given to Herman now come back to my mind.  At best I can praise him for getting us there with his preaching, but he run out of verbiage in Qatar and his lack of tactics and strategy did him in.  I don't expect the suits at the CSA to come up with anything better for 2026.