Herdman new head coach

[Aird25]

2 hours ago, Ottawafan said:

Investing in the NT's and youth camps/teams is 100% the right thing to do.  Why does it take a cash infusion from the players making the mens WC for them to realize this is important?  Why had they not been doing that before?  It shouldn't be a case of now we got this $10M, now we can focus on doing these important things.  How were they going to fund these ventures had the men not made Qatar?  Or was it not as important?

CSA has never shown the ability to put the players first.  Getting their hands on the money instilled little confidence amongst the players that they would spend it correctly.  Players know the crookedness of those in the game, who are looking at benefiting themselves and those they align with.  It's the same at every level. 

 

You do realize that there is a limited amount of money, and it's therefore a matter of balancing the funds between requirements like "Fund youth teams? Fund additional cmnt/cwnt camps so they are a better team? Paying out the players? Paying out the women and men equal, dollar for dollar", right? It's not a matter of yes, do those things, or no, don't do those things.

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, Bigandy said:

I cant imagine it would be much different. 

We had tons of injuries and guys out of season. We didnt spend tons of time together in the time preceding the WC. The biggest thing to me is that its in the best interest of these guys to give everything. A once in a lifetime experience for some with the biggest showcase on the planet.... That surely is more motivation than arguing over some cash that many of our starters would chalk up to chump change. 

I beg to differ. The pay would have been settled, which means you wouldn't have had the strike against Panama, or a continuously running saga between the CSA/players/CSB. And with payments established (and thus more of your costs know), it probably allows the CSA to move more quickly on some offers, like the rumored Saudi/South Korea friendlies last September.

[Aird25]

Deleted

Edited December 13, 2023 by Aird25

[SF]

3 hours ago, Watchmen said:

I wonder what things would be like if the players and CSA had hammered out an agreement before qualifying, like a sane program would.

Amen.  How the CSA let that happen I will never understand.

[SF]

7 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

Brutal interview. Aside from the part about his sister which is crushing, the part about the players shifting from “we” to “me” after qualification confirms what we all thought. He ends with a quote along the lines of “the people at the top of soccer in Canada have infected the game with a me attitude” and how no one at the top has any appreciation for the significance of working for a national organization with goals beyond personal gain. This should read like a laundry list of things to fix for 2026, but my sense is we haven’t learned. 

This struck me too.

I note that he made that quote in the context of Diana Matheson birthing a womens professional league that wasn't about personal gain, but about investing for the good of all of the Canadian game - a sentiment that is in stark contrast to so much of what the administration of Canadian soccer has traditionally been.

It seems that as a soccer nation we attract people to leadership positions that would rather fight over small scraps than work together to create a bigger enterprise.

Maybe I'm reading into Herdman's quote a bit, but that is what I heard.

[An Observer]

8 minutes ago, SF said:

Amen.  How the CSA let that happen I will never understand.

It takes two sides to make an agreement

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

The unexpected qualification for Qatar revealed aspects of the CSB deal to the CMNT players that were likely not expected to become apparent until 2026.

[Redpunkfiddle]

If only the players had spent more time on this forum, with plentiful information about the CSB deal leading to sober assessments and a clear preferred path forward.

[Bigandy]

14 hours ago, Watchmen said:

I beg to differ. The pay would have been settled, which means you wouldn't have had the strike against Panama, or a continuously running saga between the CSA/players/CSB. And with payments established (and thus more of your costs know), it probably allows the CSA to move more quickly on some offers, like the rumored Saudi/South Korea friendlies last September.

Great points! I didnt consider the greater logistics that go along with it...  A few more prep games could have been a big help. 

[Bigandy]

6 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The unexpected qualification for Qatar revealed aspects of the CSB deal to the CMNT players that were likely not expected to become apparent until 2026.

If only this agreement was announced earlier.... like in 2018 when it was announced on social media and CSA website.... or perhaps through the financial statements released every year.... or perhaps through the players approaching CSA about this, if they cared..... unfortunately the players only seem to care when they realize they may get a bigger payday. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

I definitely don't remember it being announced in 2018 that there was only a fixed annual fee for the CSA from CSB rather than a percentage of the take during World Cup years.

[Ottawafan]

3 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

I definitely don't remember it being announced in 2018 that there was only a fixed annual fee for the CSA from CSB rather than a percentage of the take during World Cup years.

There were a few in the CSA that said the agreement shouldn't be signed as it wasn't in the best interests long term for the CSA to give away future money to a privately run entity that has plenty of money.  Of course those folks are no longer with the CSA as they can't have people questioning the shady behavior of others.

[Ottawafan]

17 hours ago, Bigandy said:

It takes a cash infusion to have a cash infusion.... CSA has never had money to properly reinvest in the program. Its painfully obvious why that is....no fan support, never qualifying for the WC, lack of sponsorship etc. Now add in ridiculous wcq costs and covid and cash is even harder to come by. 

The WC bonus can be used as a spring board, with regularly qualifying for the WC, we can increase popularity etc to help fund the program further. 

Its just nonsense to think money has been readily available to the program in the past or that "crookedness" is the reason we cant afford to reinvest. 

They needed to go get money to support the growth and development of the game in Canada.  That is their job, yet they didn't do it.

[Ottawafan]

17 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I am not sure the players were seeking substantial compensation increases as a way to prevent the CSA from mismanaging it.  That seems like a generous attribution of altruism.  A much more straightforward scenario is that they just wanted more money for themselves.  Which aligns with the “me” agenda Herdman outlined.   Which you seem to completely ignore in the continued effort to make the CSA the sole villain in everything that has transpired between it and the players.   

Players have the right to negotiate their compensation.  Goes without saying if there is more money available they should be able to negotiate for a larger portion of the pie.  If the CSA didn't want to be put in a position to have to pay out more for the services of the players they should have engaged the players earlier and come to an agreement.  

[Bigandy]

2 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

They needed to go get money to support the growth and development of the game in Canada.  That is their job, yet they didn't do it.

And where is this magical money coming from? 

[Ottawafan]

1 minute ago, Bigandy said:

And where is this magical money coming from? 

Where was it going to come from had the men not qualified?  Or is it only important to have camps when there is more money?

[Bigandy]

14 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Where was it going to come from had the men not qualified?  Or is it only important to have camps when there is more money?

It wasnt... and we currently dont always host camps even with the qualification money.  

Which is the whole point... Its easy to say "its your job, find the money". Its much more difficult to live in reality and come up with realistic solutions on how to get more money. 

So before you blame the csa for not caring about camps, maybe give them some grace because there is no magical solution for our financial problems.... unless of course you have some possible solutions? 

[Bigandy]

30 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

I definitely don't remember it being announced in 2018 that there was only a fixed annual fee for the CSA from CSB rather than a percentage of the take during World Cup years.

Surely that would be a great question for the CWNT/CMNT to pose to CSA in 2018.... but they didnt care. 

They used the CSB deal to springboard the national team forward and then when things started going well, the players complained. 

Its a bit unfair to eat your dinner and then call the waiter over after and say, you didnt tell me that I could have had this with cheese on top. Give me a new meal. 

[Ottawafan]

22 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

It wasnt... and we currently dont always host camps even with the qualification money.  

Which is the whole point... Its easy to say "its your job, find the money". Its much more difficult to live in reality and come up with realistic solutions on how to get more money. 

So before you blame the csa for not caring about camps, maybe give them some grace because there is no magical solution for our financial problems.... unless of course you have some possible solutions? 

You are right it isn't easy.  But that is why you invest in the right people who will work to secure those funds.  If you deem that to be important.  I get it, there are only so many dollars to go around.  But maybe clean up your house and you would likely see more money coming in.  Corporate sponsors aren't looking at a players strike as a reason not to line up.  It's only the belief of a few titled posters who who actually believe that.

[Bigandy]

50 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

You are right it isn't easy.  But that is why you invest in the right people who will work to secure those funds.  If you deem that to be important.  I get it, there are only so many dollars to go around.  But maybe clean up your house and you would likely see more money coming in.  Corporate sponsors aren't looking at a players strike as a reason not to line up.  It's only the belief of a few titled posters who who actually believe that.

Im confused. You say you need to clean up your house to get money in but then say that the most public spat is not a reason for corporate sponsors to avoid paying up. 

Investing in the right people is 100% the way to go to secure more funds.... thats why a specialty marketing company makes sense. They'd likely be so good at getting funds that the general public would turn on them for making too much money at the expense of CSA and we'd end up villianizing them for the success they have brought to canada soccer that we have never seen before.

[Mattd97]

36 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Im confused. You say you need to clean up your house to get money in but then say that the most public spat is not a reason for corporate sponsors to avoid paying up. 

Investing in the right people is 100% the way to go to secure more funds.... thats why a specialty marketing company makes sense. They'd likely be so good at getting funds that the general public would turn on them for making too much money at the expense of CSA and we'd end up villianizing them for the success they have brought to canada soccer that we have never seen before.

I'm sorry where is this giant success in securing funds from the specialty marketing company?

[Ivan]

2 hours ago, Ottawafan said:

They needed to go get money to support the growth and development of the game in Canada.  That is their job, yet they didn't do it.

Actually, they did.  They signed the CSB deal and instead of 1 million per year in sponsorship revenue, they got 3-4 million, while also not paying for broadcasting NT games (now costs borne by CSB), and also not having to hire marketing staff.  Could have been better, but they did alright.

[Aird25]

1 hour ago, Ottawafan said:

Corporate sponsors aren't looking at a players strike as a reason not to line up.

As far as I can tell it seems fairly evident that sponsorships have slowed, if not entirely dried up, since the national team players went on strike and called to question the CSB deal. Am I missing something?

[Kadenge]

So are we going to get an early Christmas present?....The CSA hires a capable General Secretary, with sound business experience and hopefully a passion for the game , who will sort this mess out. 🙂

[Bigandy]

21 minutes ago, Mattd97 said:

I'm sorry where is this giant success in securing funds from the specialty marketing company?

We need to consider context. 

pre 2018 we generated less than 1 million in sponsorship and paid about 1 million to televise games. (these numbers were fairly consistent for years). 

If youre sitting in the board room, what would you say is a success. - doubling your profit? 
The CSA got 3 and a halfish million in revenue and reduced costs by 1 million. Thats 4x. Any business who can do 4x after years of nothing would be astounded at that. Now lets add some sweeteners like hosting a WC, the formation of a domestic pro league, and general interest in the sport growing (all of which were maybe possible but highly unlikely to occur without the CSB deal). 

If anyone of us was sitting in the room in 2018, those criterion would be a roaring success that looks like the biggest success is CMNT history.  

Edit: Of course my definition of success what the goals in 2018 are subjective. I would love to hear if you would have a different goal in mind at that time. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Bigandy