Herdman new head coach

[Unnamed Trialist]

10 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Consider a few were English and American, not surprising.😉

 

I think you're confusing me with the owners and FOs of 75% of Premiership teams, with their proven bias against English managers: but I'm flattered if you think that's the level I'm at.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

11 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I think you're confusing me with the owners and FOs of 75% of Premiership teams, with their proven bias against English managers: but I'm flattered if you think that's the level I'm at.

While I appreciate the joke response to the joke part, I would also appreciate your thoughts on the actual comparison.

Christiansen has done very well with - generally - a group of unknowns, with a lower base talent level, to be honest.  That is extremely commendable but not what we need in my opinion.

We are not going win anything on plucky depth, or even go beyond where we are ranked in CONCACAF.  We have a very talented core, which we are looking to add to.  A coach that has worked with very talented players against better teams - at the highest level - is in a better position to use that profile and attract others that fit it.  Someone more like Marsch.

Edited August 24, 2023 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

While I appreciate the joke response to the joke part, I would also appreciate your thoughts on the actual comparison.

Christiansen has done very well with - generally - a group of unknowns, with a lower base talent level, to be honest.  That is extremely commendable but not what we need in my opinion.

We are not going win anything on plucky depth, or even go beyond where we are ranked in CONCACAF.  We have a very talented core, which we are looking to add to.  A coach that has worked with very talented players against better teams - at the highest level - is in a better position to use that profile and attract others that fit it.  Someone more like Marsch.

The joke doesn't work--yours or mine--since most managers suggested here are ex pro Canadians. I don't think I am biased towards Canadians. Just don't think we have the talent, not yet.

I don't like the idea of being coached by an American either, sorry, referring to Marsch. For me it's a bad look. I'd prefer not to be coached by any national from another Concacaf nation in fact, not a Mexican either not a Jamaican. In any case, the guy has been on multi-million dollar salaries, in EPL, Canada would be a huge step down for him. 

What I like about Christiansen is that he has the cultural mix, apart from being very agreeable as a person. He was not an absolutely top player--though he was Bundesliga scoring champ one season with Bochum-- but has been amongst elites, so he can handle big names (was at Barça when Guardiola broke in as well). Knowing Spanish, and watching how all the Concacaf teams game the refs constantly, working them through an entire match, I like seeing a few guys who can counter that on the pitch, and if it's a coach, even better. I seriously doubt any Concacaf ref ever understood a word Herdman said.

But clearly the Spanish business is not a priority. For cost, quality, experience, and character, the right sort of pick.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

10 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The joke doesn't work--yours or mine--since most managers suggested here are ex pro Canadians. I don't think I am biased towards Canadians. Just don't think we have the talent, not yet.

I don't like the idea of being coached by an American either, sorry, referring to Marsch. For me it's a bad look. I'd prefer not to be coached by any national from another Concacaf nation in fact, not a Mexican either not a Jamaican. In any case, the guy has been on multi-million dollar salaries, in EPL, Canada would be a huge step down for him. 

What I like about Christiansen is that he has the cultural mix, apart from being very agreeable as a person. He was not an absolutely top player--though he was Bundesliga scoring champ one season with Bochum-- but has been amongst elites, so he can handle big names (was at Barça when Guardiola broke in as well). Knowing Spanish, and watching how all the Concacaf teams game the refs constantly, working them through an entire match, I like seeing a few guys who can counter that on the pitch, and if it's a coach, even better. I seriously doubt any Concacaf ref ever understood a word Herdman said.

But clearly the Spanish business is not a priority. For cost, quality, experience, and character, the right sort of pick.

I honestly think you worry too much about nationality generally. 

If Concacaf refs can't understand English, they shouldn't be in the job though.  Same with Spanish, they are the two major languages of the federation.  

Again, I don't know the cost but Marsch has much more of the experience we need, and seems fine in character, if you leave nationality out of it. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[rightback]

I don't understand the enthusiasm for Marsch. I followed his term at Leeds pretty closely and thought he was a disaster.

 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

17 minutes ago, rightback said:

I don't understand the enthusiasm for Marsch. I followed his term at Leeds pretty closely and thought he was a disaster.

 

Disaster is probably overstating it I think.  He certainly did a lot better than any that came after.  His American bias in the transfer market didn't help but picks like Gnonto and Roca were not bad.  That squad should probably have gone down and in the end they did.

edit: I guess I would add, if he had been successful, we wouldn't even be discussing the remote possibilty.  We are not in a position of strength.

Edited August 24, 2023 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

We are not in a position of strength.

Well, we are in one way:  we are in the 2026 World Cup Finals.

[costarg]

24 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

Well, we are in one way:  we are in the 2026 World Cup Finals.

Anyone else feel like they'd prefer if we weren't automatically qualified for the 2026 WC?  I think we could use those qualification games to up our tempo and experience in "real" games.  I'm not feeling all warm and fuzzy from this "free ride".  We need the competitiveness and tests.

[johnyb]

20 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

If the money is right, I would not kick him out of bed for eating crackers.

Would know what pressure was. Been an underdog coach in the Champions League. Could maybe deal with some egos, having coached at a similar level to where our best players are. He coached Haaland at one point.

Has used a few different systems but was 4231 at Leeds mostly. 3 at the back earlier.  I think he is missing  the destroyer he has put in his midfields amongst our squad currently.  But has played 2 up front a lot before Leeds which is encouraging.

Be an interesting step forward, should things come to that.

I would think he (any many others, TBH) would be willing to take less for a guaranteed WC

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I honestly think you worry too much about nationality generally. 

If Concacaf refs can't understand English, they shouldn't be in the job though.  Same with Spanish, they are the two major languages of the federation.  

Again, I don't know the cost but Marsch has much more of the experience we need, and seems fine in character, if you leave nationality out of it. 

I think you underestimate the effectiveness of chatting the ref in Spanish in a region where the majority of federations are Spanish speaking. I see how naive we are all the time. In fact the only thing that's given us some reffing breaks is having the CONCACAF president Canadian. Otherwise I think we would have been quite a few points less in qualifying.

But that's not the key point, the key is he knows CONCACAF very well and can prep a team to compete in it.

[BearcatSA]

12 minutes ago, johnyb said:

I would think he (any many others, TBH) would be willing to take less for a guaranteed WC

If he lasts in the position until then. 

 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

9 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I think you underestimate the effectiveness of chatting the ref in Spanish in a region where the majority of federations are Spanish speaking. I see how naive we are all the time. In fact the only thing that's given us some reffing breaks is having the CONCACAF president Canadian. Otherwise I think we would have been quite a few points less in qualifying.

But that's not the key point, the key is he knows CONCACAF very well and can prep a team to compete in it.

I think you are overestimating it greatly. 

Especially since the majority of CONCACAF federations are not Spanish- speaking.  Over 75% of the federations are Caribbean remember and only a handful of those are prevalently Spanish-speaking.

So of the 40 confederations, I would say a dozen, maybe 15's,  first language is Spanish. You can count them and correct me.

Marsch was born and raised in CONCACAF, played there (even a bit in the national team), was an assistant coach for his national team in CONCACAF and coached two clubs in CONCACAF, including taking the Red Bulls to play in places like Honduras and Mexico.

Of course he knows CONCACAF. Would it make a difference if his name was Jese Pantano? 

[Unnamed Trialist]

16 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I think you are overestimating it greatly. 

Especially since the majority of CONCACAF federations are not Spanish- speaking.  Over 75% of the federations are Caribbean remember and only a handful of those are prevalently Spanish-speaking.

So of the 40 confederations, I would say a dozen, maybe 15's,  first language is Spanish. You can count them and correct me.

Marsch was born and raised in CONCACAF, played there (even a bit in the national team), was an assistant coach for his national team in CONCACAF and coached two clubs in CONCACAF, including taking the Red Bulls to play in places like Honduras and Mexico.

Of course he knows CONCACAF. Would it make a difference if his name was Jese Pantano? 

You really dig that Marsch guy, I get it.

At Leeds he made 4x what Herdman is making now. At least.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

10 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You really dig that Marsch guy, I get it.

And you Christiansen, for apparently less logical reasons.

 

To be clear, Christiansen would be a fine safe appointment but my opinion is that Marsch could get the best out of our best, which is what we need to actually progress beyond where we are.

Edited August 24, 2023 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[mpg_29]

At this point wouldn't Marsch just wait to coach the US team?..

 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

2 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

At this point wouldn't Marsch just wait to coach the US team?..

 

What do think it would take to get rid of Berhalter, again, before 2026?

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

36 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

At this point wouldn't Marsch just wait to coach the US team?..

He turned down the Leicester City job so he may still be expecting to coach another reasonably big club in Europe. If so, I don't think the CMNT job will be on his radar.

[Obinna]

I don't think Marsch is a realistic target. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

37 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

He turned down the Leicester City job so he may still be expecting to coach another reasonably big club in Europe. If so, I don't think the CMNT job will be on his radar.

He turned down the Leicester job about a month after he was fired. They were 19th and there was a very good chance they were going down.  He went and looked at them training and then said nope. Probably a smart move.

Not sure the same offer comes if the team is not desperate.

That was almost 5 months ago.  

19 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I don't think Marsch is a realistic target. 

Maybe not but worth the ask, if the situation plays out.

[jonovision]

Canada should hire Bob Bradley.

Am I joking? I'm not even sure.

[Atlantic]

Finances aside (which I understand you can’t forget about), I wonder what level of coach Canada could get with the current crop of players and auto-WC status for 2026. Are long-time journeyman still our level or could serious and in their prime managers be tempted? Again, in the theoretical scenario that we aren’t broke and can offer reasonable wages.

[Aird25]

7 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I think you underestimate the effectiveness of chatting the ref in Spanish in a region where the majority of federations are Spanish speaking. I see how naive we are all the time. In fact the only thing that's given us some reffing breaks is having the CONCACAF president Canadian. Otherwise I think we would have been quite a few points less in qualifying.

But that's not the key point, the key is he knows CONCACAF very well and can prep a team to compete in it.

What points were we given because of Vic?

[toontownman]

27 minutes ago, Atlantic said:

Finances aside (which I understand you can’t forget about), I wonder what level of coach Canada could get with the current crop of players and auto-WC status for 2026. Are long-time journeyman still our level or could serious and in their prime managers be tempted? Again, in the theoretical scenario that we aren’t broke and can offer reasonable wages.

I still think there will be a ton of high quality coaches interested. Just depends on the CSA and what they can pay.

In some ways I think maybe they would want to try and go as big as they can and push the envelope with bigger name to take us to 2026 (after an obligatory exhaustive year long search of cause).

However, if the CSA did push the boat out in anyway and pay for a top coach I wonder if they will simply get abuse in the form of "that money could have been spent on X, Y and Z." Damned if they do, damned if they don't because if it's anything other than a bigger name/solid looking hire people will be on their backs for having no ambition and cheaping out.

Don't envy Herdman, CSA or anyone in the decision making processes for all this. It a giant mess.

[BearcatSA]

12 minutes ago, toontownman said:

Don't envy Herdman, CSA or anyone in the decision making processes for all this. It a giant mess.

He isn't involved in this MNT hire, is he?

[Unnamed Trialist]

53 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

What points were we given because of Vic?

Just a start: in all scenarios in our NT past Buchanan commits a penalty away to El Salvador, m.62, with the match tied. 2-3 points just there.

In no scenario in our past did we not get more and darker cards for the Doneil corner kick "brawl" m 45 vs Panama at home. Or the mess after the game with Richie complaining about spitting. Same game, 90% of linesmen call the ball out on the Davies goal. 

We got away with countless timewasting maneuvers with both Borjan and Crepeau.

We got breaks and arguably, not one single iffy call against over the entire 14 games. Oddly, until we were already qualified (Kaye, who every Costa Rica commentator said deserved a straight red earlier at m. 17 anyways).

Edited August 25, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist