Herdman new head coach

[RJB]

https://www.tsn.ca/canada-soccer-world-cup-qualifying-qatar-2022-1.1754539

"Herdman says he inherited a dysfunctional team split into cliques — with two fights in training at his first camp in March 2018 in Murcia, Spain."

Have I missed something here?  Who was in these two fights!?

[GasPed]

23 minutes ago, RJB said:

https://www.tsn.ca/canada-soccer-world-cup-qualifying-qatar-2022-1.1754539

"Herdman says he inherited a dysfunctional team split into cliques — with two fights in training at his first camp in March 2018 in Murcia, Spain."

Have I missed something here?  Who was in these two fights!?

I don't think that who was in those fights has ever been reported.  Herdman did say that afterwards Arfield talked to him about it and tried to explain "that's just men's soccer", but Herdman insisted "No, that's not men's soccer - at least not our men's soccer - we fight the other team, we don't fight each other."   (Or something to that effect - sorry don't have the exact quote.) 

I've always had a sneaking suspicion that Oso might have been part of it, just because nowadays Herdman compliments him on how much he's grown as a leader, from someone who was more in it for himself, to someone who cheers and leads and puts the team first.  Probably just reading into it though.  😉

[Bison44]

19 minutes ago, RJB said:

https://www.tsn.ca/canada-soccer-world-cup-qualifying-qatar-2022-1.1754539

"Herdman says he inherited a dysfunctional team split into cliques — with two fights in training at his first camp in March 2018 in Murcia, Spain."

Have I missed something here?  Who was in these two fights!?

HAHA, scroll up, you'll find the discussion on this.  And plenty of the talk is about guys that werent even in that camp.  As much as I like the success of the team its this kind of crap that still irks me.  These little stories that get blown up but the details dont quite match up, but they serve as to put the luster on Herdman.  He sells it awful hard when he should just let the results speak for themselves.  Its a good enough story on its own, it doesnt need the garnish.  

[narduch]

39 minutes ago, RJB said:

https://www.tsn.ca/canada-soccer-world-cup-qualifying-qatar-2022-1.1754539

"Herdman says he inherited a dysfunctional team split into cliques — with two fights in training at his first camp in March 2018 in Murcia, Spain."

Have I missed something here?  Who was in these two fights!?

As I've stated previously I think there is some myth making out of this story 

[The Beaver 2.0]

28 minutes ago, narduch said:

As I've stated previously I think there is some myth making out of this story 

I'll fess up and take the blame for one of the reported scuffles. The Beaver and Atiba got into a nasty knife-fight to determine which of us would be king of Canada. There wasn't room for two tall, knobby-kneed, quietly charismatic Alphas on this squad. One of us had to go.  

Clearly, you know the rest of the story. (I've got the scars to prove it.)

[CanadaFan123]

Canada have scored 21% of their goals in history under Herdman according to my calculations. 113 goals out of 537 all-time. He has only managed 38 games, roughly 9% of Canada’s all-time matches (425) and 3 goals per game average. 

Edited February 4, 2022 by CanadaFan123

[Califax]

It’s really the only thing that bothers me about Herdman.

 

On the surface he’s incredibly likeable which means people tend to believe him even if people on this board have figured out that a lot of the stuff isn’t even possible.He has the team playing like superstars and that’s good enough for me. We’re in a transactional relationship right now and as supporters we are all benefiting. 

 

But if he gave me change for a dollar, I’d count it at least three times. 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Califax

[Sal333]

1 hour ago, Califax said:

It’s really the only thing that bothers me about Herdman.

 

On the surface he’s incredibly likeable which means people tend to believe him even if people on this board have figured out that a lot of the stuff isn’t even possible.He has the team playing like superstars and that’s good enough for me. We’re in a transactional relationship right now and as supporters we are all benefiting. 

 

But if he gave me change for a dollar, I’d count it at least three times. 

That says more about you than about Herdman.

[Califax]

3 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

That says more about you than about Herdman.

[youllneverwalkalone]

1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Canada have scored 21% of their goals in history under Herdman according to my calculations. 113 goals out of 537 all-time. He has only managed 38 games, roughly 9% of Canada’s all-time matches (425) and 3 goals per game average. 

With 9% of all matches he must be approaching some records. I think he has 28 wins. Who else has more?

[youllneverwalkalone]

Third most matches of all time:

https://www.transfermarkt.com/kanada/mitarbeiterhistorie/verein/3510

He must have the most wins by a landslide if those PPG are accurate.

 

 

[Norrin Radd]

6 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

He must have the most wins by a landslide if those PPG are accurate.

You can't compare PPG across different eras. It used to be only two points for a win at one time.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Ok. I will go back and dig for wins.

[Norrin Radd]

Just now, youllneverwalkalone said:

Ok. I will go back and dig for wins.

Just click on the Detailed View link in the same page. He does indeed have the most wins at 28.

[CanadaFan123]

1 minute ago, Norrin Radd said:

You can't compare PPG across different eras. It used to be only two points for a win at one time.

Confirmed Lenarduzzi had 18 wins and Osieck had 20. Herdman is probably the Canadian manager with the most wins. However, it doesn’t look as if Transfrmrkt has accurate data for Waiters 
 

Also, shocked that Floro managed 31 matches for us. Those had to be the 31 most forgettable matches of football. Like literally the highlight was a win vs Honduras off Larin’s ass.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Holger 20

Lenarduzzi 18

 

[Bison44]

4 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Confirmed Lenarduzzi had 18 wins and Osieck had 20. Herdman is probably the Canadian manager with the most wins. However, it doesn’t look as if Transfrmrkt has accurate data for Waiters 
 

Also, shocked that Floro managed 31 matches for us. Those had to be the 31 most forgettable matches of football. Like literally the highlight was a win vs Honduras off Larin’s ass.

I am not surprised at all that you dont remember them, they were very forgettable.  😀 😀

I am surprised that Herdman is the manager with the most wins and we never heard about it.  Seems like he would have said something.  

[Free kick]

Since we play in CONCACAF, a lot of individual stats (coaching wins, goal scoring...etc etc) have little significance in my mind.  We are in a confederation of 35 countries whereby 70-75% are tiny Island nations.   So it easy to pad your stats.  That applies to goal scoring and coaching wins.   For a coach,  what matters is 1) who you are winning against and 2) qualifying for the World cup.  Clearly, nobody has had the success of Herdman.  That should not even be in dispute.  

Edited February 4, 2022 by Free kick

[youllneverwalkalone]

16 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Confirmed Lenarduzzi had 18 wins and Osieck had 20. Herdman is probably the Canadian manager with the most wins. However, it doesn’t look as if Transfrmrkt has accurate data for Waiters 
 

Also, shocked that Floro managed 31 matches for us. Those had to be the 31 most forgettable matches of football. Like literally the highlight was a win vs Honduras off Larin’s ass.

Canada won 31 times from Jan 1 84 to Dec 31, 1991. Which would be the most generous span of Waiters history. Many of those matches are listed as Olympic or B in the CSA records.

[youllneverwalkalone]

11 minutes ago, Free kick said:

Since we play in CONCACAF, a lot of individual stats (coaching wins, goal scoring...etc etc) have little significance in my mind.  We are in a confederation of 35 countries whereby 70-75% are tiny Island nations.   So it easy to pad your stats.  That applies to goal scoring and coaching wins.   For a coach,  what matters is 1) who you are winning against and 2) qualifying for the World cup.  Clearly, nobody has had the success of Herdman.  That should not even be in dispute.  

Except maybe Waiters. I went through 84-91 in the CSA archive. Very few minnows there -although lots of losses as well.

[Unnamed Trialist]

8 hours ago, Free kick said:

Since we play in CONCACAF, a lot of individual stats (coaching wins, goal scoring...etc etc) have little significance in my mind.  We are in a confederation of 35 countries whereby 70-75% are tiny Island nations.   So it easy to pad your stats.  That applies to goal scoring and coaching wins.   For a coach,  what matters is 1) who you are winning against and 2) qualifying for the World cup.  Clearly, nobody has had the success of Herdman.  That should not even be in dispute.  

To be fair, in UEFA qualifying groups for the WC and Euros, there are usually 1-2 minnows in each group as well. Until recently it was not that unusual to see blowouts, less frequent now just because of fitness and training, but still. England just had a group with Andorra and San Marino, 4 matchs of 10 played. Netherlands and Turkey saw Latvia and Gibraltar. This is every two years, WC, Euros, up to 40% of qualifying matches every cycle vs. minnows. 

England has played Andorra in qualifying cycles in 3 rounds, 6 official matches in fifteen years, 25 goals for, 0 against (I saw Andorra's best result 0-2). That is padding too. 

In Concacaf once you are into the top rung, you don't play such matches any longer.

[TGAA_Star]

Herdman as soon as he gets us to Qatar, whether we go out in group stages or we go out in the Round of 16, he needs to stay on as Canada manager period.

[baulderdash77]

As @Unnamed Trialist said- now that we’re in the top rung of Nations League and the top end of the rankings we won’t be playing the likes of Cayman Islands or Monserrat anymore.  
 

It’s going to be rare for us to play teams outside the top 12 in CONCACAF anymore.  I’m fine with that.  Although it’s kinda fun to win a game 6-0 it’s not really competitive or exciting.

I’d rather have the higher drama games against the best teams in CONCACAF and eventually I’m sure that most will feel that way.  
 

In fact there really is solid merit to merging COMENBOL and CONCACAF if executed properly. 

[TGAA_Star]

17 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

As @Unnamed Trialist said- now that we’re in the top rung of Nations League and the top end of the rankings we won’t be playing the likes of Cayman Islands or Monserrat anymore.  
 

It’s going to be rare for us to play teams outside the top 12 in CONCACAF anymore.  I’m fine with that.  Although it’s kinda fun to win a game 6-0 it’s not really competitive or exciting.

I’d rather have the higher drama games against the best teams in CONCACAF and eventually I’m sure that most will feel that way.  
 

In fact there really is solid merit to merging COMENBOL and CONCACAF if executed properly. 

A CONCACAF/CONMEBOL merging I'm fine with if only for Nations League or Copa America 

[baulderdash77]

Nations League and Copa America would be the point.

In effect there would be Copa America qualification, Copa America, World Cup qualification, World Cup and Nations League would fill the gaps.

With 45 teams in the confederation, it would be similar to UEFA in terms of qualification format for both Copa America and World Cup.

The other way to go about it would be to cast off the Carribean conference to something like OFC and merge North, Central and South America into a strong concentrated federation without the “Caribbean Mafia” controlling the votes.

Edited February 4, 2022 by baulderdash77