General Discussion on CMNT

[harrycoyster]

4 minutes ago, Scorpion26 said:

These things can actually happen and it does many time. You don't think this player got it and boom he's a top player for Canada. Or some player we thought was going to play for another country joins Canada. 

I think you rate the USA style of play to highly to not believe Canada not to be able to control the game against them and again not all or many, but a few games it can and will happen. We do got some good youngsters coming up as well, but obviously we don't know which will make an impact with CMNT. 

Also it will depend on Herdman, as I am not sure what he will do with this team. To me he's still a mystery as a coach and type of philosophy he goes for in soccer. That will be an interesting thing to find out come March.

You're talking about how we can beat them with style of play while they don't have a coach and we haven't played a game with ours. That's insane.

It's even worse to assume that we can outplay them based on our youth players and dual-national prospects. The US has better youth players and better dual-national prospects. The US has a 20 year old on the field for Chelsea right now!

I don't get the obsession with comparing ourselves to the US at senior level. Our youth systems are so interconnected that it's fine there, but can we focus on outplaying the likes Panama, Jamaica, Honduras etc. before we start worrying about if we can play a possession-based game against the US?

[Gian-Luca]

To be honest with Herdman as our coach I'm a little worried about being able to play a possession game against any half-decent team, never mind the US. I'm not sure if that will be his style. Because he kept declining to answer the questions on what he thought of Canada's talent level, it suggested to me that he either (a) didn't think much of it so will try to play long-ball/bunker-ball or (b) honestly didn't know because he hadn't paid any attention to the men's team, despite being in this country for the past 6 years. Take your pick.

Also I don't recall the women's team playing what I'd call a tic-a-tac style of pass-your-opponents-to-death brand football, which also doesn't lead me to think that we're going to see a possession style.

[Scorpion26]

30 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

You're talking about how we can beat them with style of play while they don't have a coach and we haven't played a game with ours. That's insane.

It's even worse to assume that we can outplay them based on our youth players and dual-national prospects. The US has better youth players and better dual-national prospects. The US has a 20 year old on the field for Chelsea right now!

I don't get the obsession with comparing ourselves to the US at senior level. Our youth systems are so interconnected that it's fine there, but can we focus on outplaying the likes Panama, Jamaica, Honduras etc. before we start worrying about if we can play a possession-based game against the US?

I'm posting about games I have seen the US play past, present, and future. They're not that great that Canada can't do something against them in a game. Canada and US are comparable due to proximity and I feel Canada will make that similar leap the US has done since 1990. Again I'm not posting to mention Canada will dominate every game or most, but a few game will occur where Canada does dominate a US team. @harrycoyster you're a cool person, but I guess we won't agree on this let us move on...

@Gian-Luca I agree with you. I do think it will come down to what Herdman does and I'm not sure of his philosophy in soccer. He is however in an interesting situation. I do think if Canada plays like crap he is going to get a lot of negative comments. I for one wanted OZ to continue this journey with CMNT, but since that has not happened and new CSA president wanted to put his guy instead. It will be a tough year for Herdman, if he comes up short and plays an ugly game. However since he's the coach I will give him at least the calendar year, before ripping him if things go bad, but if horrible i'll wait 5 games.  

[harrycoyster]

3 minutes ago, Scorpion26 said:

I'm posting about games I have seen the US play past, present, and future.

Well, it's hard to argue with somebody who has already watched future USMNT games...

[jpg75]

24 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

Well, it's hard to argue with somebody who has already watched future USMNT games...

...add Canada beats USA in soccer

[Scorpion26]

18 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

Well, it's hard to argue with somebody who has already watched future USMNT games...

Clever one... but you know what I meant as they going to play a similar style in the future as well....

Making an assumption that you believe that I'm thinking that, if Canada controls the game against the US that they would win the game. Or am I wrong?

 

Edited February 17, 2018 by Scorpion26

[harrycoyster]

6 hours ago, Scorpion26 said:

Clever one... but you know what I meant as they going to play a similar style in the future as well....

Making an assumption that you believe that I'm thinking that, if Canada controls the game against the US that they would win the game. Or am I wrong?

 

I have no idea what you're arguing at this point man. The US has drastically changed "style" under each coach they've had in the last ten years, so I don't get what you mean when you say they'll keep playing the same style going forward. 

You originally said that you see us "controlling" a game against the US "soon", and when pressed you pointed to our young players coming up the ranks, dual-nationals, and tactics as your reasoning. I think those reasons are misguided because:

1) Neither of the teams have played a game with their long-term head coach.

2) US has many, many times more dual nationals than us. At one point last year the German u17 team started 5 players that were US eligible. 

3) US record in official CONCACAF youth competition in 2017: 13-3-1. Canada record in official CONCACAF youth competition in 2017: 4-0-6. So, unless you're hiding a few world class u17 players in your basement, I don't see our current youth outperforming theirs.

[Scorpion26]

13 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

I have no idea what you're arguing at this point man. The US has drastically changed "style" under each coach they've had in the last ten years, so I don't get what you mean when you say they'll keep playing the same style going forward. 

You originally said that you see us "controlling" a game against the US "soon", and when pressed you pointed to our young players coming up the ranks, dual-nationals, and tactics as your reasoning. I think those reasons are misguided because:

1) Neither of the teams have played a game with their long-term head coach.

2) US has many, many times more dual nationals than us. At one point last year the German u17 team started 5 players that were US eligible. 

3) US record in official CONCACAF youth competition in 2017: 13-3-1. Canada record in official CONCACAF youth competition in 2017: 4-0-6. So, unless you're hiding a few world class u17 players in your basement, I don't see our current youth outperforming theirs.

You make seem like US have play makers in the team that will control the game every time against Canada. Why is it hard for you to believe that there will be games that Canada holds control of the game and take it to the US. It can result in a win or a loss or a draw. Canada does have the players now and coming up able to pass around the US team. Just because the youth for US has done well doesn't mean they'll make it to play for USMNT and same for Canada. However we can still have players come up from youth teams and be able to pass around the US which has happened in the youth, but resulted in a loss don't remember the year though. Canada overall has been on the losing side quite often  the past few years, but I have watched games between Canada and USA which Canada did control the game at the senior level. It has happened and will in the future, but will it be a lot of games I don't think so. Just because USA have more dual nationals don't really means to much as they may not even play for USA at all and if they do join whose to say how they will do with team and if they're going to be receiving consistent call up look at Julian Green. 

Don't know when it will happen, but it will be interesting to see Canada under Herdman play against USA under future coach. Which both of us can agree upon...

[toontownman]

On 16/02/2018 at 12:05 PM, Bison44 said:

Speaking of duals, what ever happened to the Wotherspoon rumors??  

I am assuming this was either an eligibility no goer or the paperwork simply isn't done/is taking far longer than normal. 

Shame, we will take what we can get and he seemed like a decent depth option. 

[Ansem]

USMNT are very beatable. They peaked and I think we're witnessing a decline.

[matty]

59 minutes ago, Ansem said:

USMNT are very beatable. They peaked and I think we're witnessing a decline.

I think they're beatable, maybe not very but beatable, but question if it's a decline. They're youth teams are doing very well in CONCACAF and FIFA competitions.

[Kurt-MTL]

I don't really get some of the arguments on here regarding the US. Nobody is contending that they aren't beatable; of course they are, everyone is, at least in a one-off game. The point is can we do it consistently game after game, qualifying campaign after qualifying campaign, tournament after tournament? I think the answer is no; just look at our recent record for proof. I've also yet to see anything from the NT to suggest we're anywhere closer to that, with the one exception being last year's Gold Cup where I thought we played well and had something to build on. 

Just to make it clear: I'm not saying we haven't made strides. We are slowly seeing good young players rising through the ranks and the commitment to the cause of some of the dual-eligibility guys has certainly helped. I'm also hopeful that CPL will become an established, sustainable conveyor-belt of talent for years to come. That said, I think we are still a long-ways away from CONSISTENTLY challenging and beating the top-tier nations in CONCACAF (including the US).

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

USMNT are very beatable. They peaked and I think we're witnessing a decline.

I think otherwise. Them not making the World Cup was a wake up call

[Northvansteve]

Mexico and the US should and will dominate CONCACAF. Their player pools are too deep and strong not to. We need to compare ourselves to and compete with Costa Rica, Honduras, Jamaica, Panama, Trinidad. These are the teams we need to beat consistently. We should be able to do this. 

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, canta15 said:

I think otherwise. Them not making the World Cup was a wake up call

The way they played was telling on how much the rest of the region have figured them out. They were also a very old team during the HEX. Going with the same lineup or going younger doesn't change that they won't be as good as before. Who they pick to replace Arena and how much changes they'll implement will determine what happens next.

[Ansem]

53 minutes ago, Northvansteve said:

Mexico and the US should and will dominate CONCACAF. Their player pools are too deep and strong not to. We need to compare ourselves to and compete with Costa Rica, Honduras, Jamaica, Panama, Trinidad. These are the teams we need to beat consistently. We should be able to do this. 

If you look at what happened in their WCQ, they aren't dominating anymore. Costa Rica took over as #2. Panama made great progress as well.

USMNT are as tough as ever, but that aura of "dominance" has faded.

They need more of their youth players to play at senior level and let go of the older guys to prepare the transition, something that we've already been doing. The US was the oldest team in the qualifiers...

[harrycoyster]

2 minutes ago, Ansem said:

If you look at what happened in their WCQ, they aren't dominating anymore. Costa Rica took over as #2. Panama made great progress as well.

USMNT are as tough as ever, but that aura of "dominance" has faded.

They need more of their youth players to play at senior level and let go of the older guys to prepare the transition, something that we've already been doing. The US was the oldest team in the qualifiers...

You could have made the same argument for Mexico back in 2013....look at them now. 

[Ansem]

9 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

You could have made the same argument for Mexico back in 2013....look at them now. 

Mexico vs US comparison is a none starter, really.

I don't see the US reclaiming #2 in the region in this cycle. Costa Rica are clearly ahead. 

Edited February 18, 2018 by Ansem

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Mexico vs US comparison is a none starter, really.

I don't see the US reclaiming #2 in the region in this cycle. Costa Rica are clearly ahead. 

why exactly is it a “none starter”

[harrycoyster]

8 minutes ago, canta15 said:

why exactly is it a “none starter”

BECAUSE HE SAID SO. The US isn't even Costa Rica. Never mind the USA's clearly superior youth teams and the 2-0-2 record they have against each other in the last two years. The US is clearly miles behind. Look at the FIFA Rankings. The US at 24 aren't near Costa Rica, who are at 25.

 

Edited February 18, 2018 by harrycoyster

[Scorpion26]

It's all good we all got our opinions or views on how teams play the game, but in the end it will come down to coaching and players out on the pitch/field to determine the game. What I hope for is that Herdman looks at Canada's past few games under OZ and tries to build on that instead of starting from scratch. What he needs to work on his finding the next two or more CB for CMNT. Not many will agree, but we do have a squad capable to make it to the Hex for 2022 WC and just maybe beyond. I know many believe the 2026 is our goal, but damn that I think we got the talent to make some noise in the next WCQ.

[Ansem]

13 minutes ago, canta15 said:

why exactly is it a “none starter”

Not remotely close talent wise

[Ansem]

5 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

BECAUSE HE SAID SO. The US isn't even Costa Rica. Never mind the USA's clearly superior youth teams and the 2-0-2 record they have against each other in the last two years. The US is clearly miles behind. Look at the FIFA Rankings. The US at 24 aren't near Costa Rica, who are at 25.

 

Don't know why people have problems with "results". I watch those HEX games... miles ahead??? Lol no

[Obinna]

It's weird reading a discussion about Mexico, the USA and Costa Rica in a CMNT general discussion thread, but here is what I see:

I see that Mexico is by far the deepest team in our region, followed by the US and then Costa Rica. 

Mexico's depth is so much deeper than the US. Just consider that Liga MX clubs are stronger than MLS clubs and also bare in mind the percentage of domestic players is higher in Mexico than in MLS.

This is how I choose to judge the depth. You can compare youth team results, but I think looking at the potential national team players Mexico has is more insightful and relevant.  

I know in a way any professional is a potential national team player, but in Mexico there are more and better professionals, so the quantity and quality is better than the USA.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, harrycoyster said:

You could have made the same argument for Mexico back in 2013....look at them now. 

I think Mexico in 2013 is different from USA today.

Not really the same situation.

The USA now has turnover and Mexico wasn't really witnessing turnover. Their results were just poor.