General Discussion on CMNT

[Kadenge]

22 minutes ago, narduch said:

Apparently the US are taking fully separate squads to this summers tournaments. 

I assume their "A" squad is at NL, which is what I expect for us as well. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, VinceA said:

Don't know how you guys feel but honestly based on the situations with Mexico and the USA if we don't win anything this summer that's a failure on Herdman's part. We have the talent.

If we don't make the NL final it's a failure.

Then I think finals are a tough call but you have to play them. These guys have never done so with Canada. You can lose a final, it happens.

Obviously if we win NL we just expect a dignified run in the GC, at least quarters.

A "good" summer is the NL final win or lose. And then making GC semis.

[Vasi]

Does anyone know by when they need to announce the roster? A week before? 

[InglewoodJack]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

If we don't make the NL final it's a failure.

Then I think finals are a tough call but you have to play them. These guys have never done so with Canada. You can lose a final, it happens.

Obviously if we win NL we just expect a dignified run in the GC, at least quarters.

A "good" summer is the NL final win or lose. And then making GC semis.

I think a successful summer means one trophy at least. We flamed out of the World Cup, if we leave empty handed this summer, that’s one heck of a “golden generation” that we have. If not now, then when?

[Bison44]

Yes, if not this summer then its over, no more chances.  What young teenagers do we have to replace Davies, David, Kone, Johnston, Buchanon etc for next WCQ??  

[PastPros]

By comparison, however, a nation like Scotland having a  "Golden Generation", wouldn't imply trophies... it would just mean they would be competitive in their region.

(Or whatever nation you think is comparable)

We have zero depth.

[PastPros]

51 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Yes, if not this summer then its over, no more chances.  What young teenagers do we have to replace Davies, David, Kone, Johnston, Buchanon etc for next WCQ??  

Why would we need to replace them? They are youngsters. They will be around for a decade.

[sebdeserio]

58 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I think a successful summer means one trophy at least. We flamed out of the World Cup, if we leave empty handed this summer, that’s one heck of a “golden generation” that we have. If not now, then when?

Only golden part of this generation is Davies and maybe David. This is the new normal of a program that's consistently underperformed not an anomaly. But I do agree that not winning a trophy would be a bit disappointing, and making a final is a must. 

[nolando]

6 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

If we don't make the NL final it's a failure.

Then I think finals are a tough call but you have to play them. These guys have never done so with Canada. You can lose a final, it happens.

Obviously if we win NL we just expect a dignified run in the GC, at least quarters.

A "good" summer is the NL final win or lose. And then making GC semis.

Veteran voice of reason.

[TGAA_Star]

Yeah which is why I'm hoping our men beat Panama in the semi final of the Nations League and then we face either USA or Mexico in the Final...preferably if Canada get to the Final, we face Mexico rather than the USA

[Unnamed Trialist]

Speaking of the Mitrovic saga: right now I am working at home with the Spain-Serbia u-17 match on, European u-17 championship, and they have a 17 year old Stefan Mitrovic who is an attacking midfielder. Just got a yellow.

So thinking, if Ivan keeps up with his shameless promotional campaign maybe he'll get this kid signed and not his.

Edit: Oops, just checking the guy and see this was played yesterday, it's a repeat. Both teams went through from their group of 4 into quarter finals.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist

[eramosat]

It will definitely be interesting to see how 4 years of preparing for a World Cup that we are already qualified for goes.  This is brand new territory, with a (I think? I hope?) hungry team, and a lurching, staggering federation, and an attentive fanbase.  I am prepared for both great highs and great lows, I expect both but am ultimately very happy that the 2026 spot is already in hand.

[TGAA_Star]

15 hours ago, eramosat said:

It will definitely be interesting to see how 4 years of preparing for a World Cup that we are already qualified for goes.  This is brand new territory, with a (I think? I hope?) hungry team, and a lurching, staggering federation, and an attentive fanbase.  I am prepared for both great highs and great lows, I expect both but am ultimately very happy that the 2026 spot is already in hand.

Me too because with us being auto qualified we don't have to take part in qualifying for our own tournament and we can provide our attention and our energy into preparing for 2026 in other ways like Gold Cups, Copa America, Nations Leagues what have you. My point being we will be just as battle tested as our fellow hosts USA and Mexico.

[Kent]

On 5/22/2023 at 10:35 AM, TGAA_Star said:

I still can't believe we are less than a month away from the 2023 CONCACAF Gold Cup and it wasn't that long ago that our men were in Qatar for the 2022 FIFA World Cup. Then to think next year too we are also invited as a guest to the 2024 CONMEBOL Copa America and then after that we have the 2025 CONCACAF Gold Cup.

The bold above is not true. We are not invited to the tournament, we have to qualify for it. We need to either make the semi-finals in the NEXT Nations League (not the current one, where we are already in the semi finals) or win a play-in game against another quarter final loser (we have automatically qualified for the quarter finals of the next Nations League).

[Kent]

On 5/22/2023 at 10:42 AM, Ottawafan said:

Canada choose to ignore a player. He chose another option presented to him. 

Is it up to the CSA to send a scout to watch a game for every team that has a coach saying the CSA should scout them? If the player has an uncharacteristic poor game when he is scouted and the coach tells the CSA that they need to watch him again, is the CSA obligated to watch him again? It's impossible to scout every player in a country. UT is right that you need a system that funnels the best talent into the best leagues and then you can see best on best and it's much more feasible to watch the best players, and see them in context against the other players competing for those youth national team spots.

[Stoppage Time]

2 hours ago, Kent said:

Is it up to the CSA to send a scout to watch a game for every team that has a coach saying the CSA should scout them? If the player has an uncharacteristic poor game when he is scouted and the coach tells the CSA that they need to watch him again, is the CSA obligated to watch him again? It's impossible to scout every player in a country. UT is right that you need a system that funnels the best talent into the best leagues and then you can see best on best and it's much more feasible to watch the best players, and see them in context against the other players competing for those youth national team spots.

Agreed on the UT point.  Youth coaches and their clubs must make it policy to encourage the top players to move up a division or a year in order to provide the best opposition and, in theory, the best coaching. It does a supremely talented kid no good at all to dominate at a lesser level! They need to play where they are challenged and able to learn and improve.

[SthMelbRed]

1 hour ago, Stoppage Time said:

Agreed on the UT point.  Youth coaches and their clubs must make it policy to encourage the top players to move up a division or a year in order to provide the best opposition and, in theory, the best coaching. It does a supremely talented kid no good at all to dominate at a lesser level! They need to play where they are challenged and able to learn and improve.

How's the U12s coach going to brag to his mates about how great his team is and how they won X number of trophies last year if his best players are doing the business for the U14s coach?

[Ottawafan]

7 hours ago, Kent said:

Is it up to the CSA to send a scout to watch a game for every team that has a coach saying the CSA should scout them? If the player has an uncharacteristic poor game when he is scouted and the coach tells the CSA that they need to watch him again, is the CSA obligated to watch him again? It's impossible to scout every player in a country. UT is right that you need a system that funnels the best talent into the best leagues and then you can see best on best and it's much more feasible to watch the best players, and see them in context against the other players competing for those youth national team spots.

I get it. Internet fans who don’t understand how it works. 
OSU is a top club in Ontario playing in a provincial wide league, OYSL. This was a known entity having the top 10 teams at an age level. All of the top players in the province played in it outside of the TFC kids. Many national youth team players scattered around the league.  All the top players concentrated in one location, and they couldn’t get out to watch. 
it is the job of the CSA to turn over every rock and find talent. That’s what successful clubs do, successful associations/federations do. KT went on to play at a higher level than 99% of the kids in the province at the 1997.  CSA fan boys defending them aside, the CSA fucked up. 

[Ottawafan]

5 hours ago, Stoppage Time said:

Agreed on the UT point.  Youth coaches and their clubs must make it policy to encourage the top players to move up a division or a year in order to provide the best opposition and, in theory, the best coaching. It does a supremely talented kid no good at all to dominate at a lesser level! They need to play where they are challenged and able to learn and improve.

No. Just no. This is completely wrong. 

[Joe1973]

I don't recall seeing anything about this even though it's a long time away.

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, Ottawafan said:

I get it. Internet fans who don’t understand how it works. 
OSU is a top club in Ontario playing in a provincial wide league, OYSL. This was a known entity having the top 10 teams at an age level. All of the top players in the province played in it outside of the TFC kids. Many national youth team players scattered around the league.  All the top players concentrated in one location, and they couldn’t get out to watch. 
it is the job of the CSA to turn over every rock and find talent. That’s what successful clubs do, successful associations/federations do. KT went on to play at a higher level than 99% of the kids in the province at the 1997.  CSA fan boys defending them aside, the CSA fucked up. 

At age 16 he chose the Czech Republic. You can't be sure he would not have found his way into a Canada camp eventually.

He made a quick decision, chose not to wait, but it is not as if he then became a leading Czech international or even had a pro career of any merit. He never panned out in even a modest Czech club, or equivalent. Salaries in Ireland are not much better than CPL. He is not a player that got away, and if you look at his corresponding age group, 26 year olds, there are others even from Ontario you are effectively arguing he was better than who have done much more.

[Ottawafan]

7 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

At age 16 he chose the Czech Republic. You can't be sure he would not have found his way into a Canada camp eventually.

He made a quick decision, chose not to wait, but it is not as if he then became a leading Czech international or even had a pro career of any merit. He never panned out in even a modest Czech club, or equivalent. Salaries in Ireland are not much better than CPL. He is not a player that got away, and if you look at his corresponding age group, 26 year olds, there are others even from Ontario you are effectively arguing he was better than who have done much more.

His career path as a pro is immaterial to the point the CSA fucked up by not taking time to watch him as a 15/16 year old play or invite him to a camp.  He had an opportunity to further his youth football development; he took it.  

CSA needed to be better.  There is no excuse to miss out on talented kids and you can spin it all you like, he is a talented player.

[Unnamed Trialist]

51 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

His career path as a pro is immaterial to the point the CSA fucked up by not taking time to watch him as a 15/16 year old play or invite him to a camp.  He had an opportunity to further his youth football development; he took it.  

CSA needed to be better.  There is no excuse to miss out on talented kids and you can spin it all you like, he is a talented player.

Just because I don't know: if you are 15-16 years old in Ottawa, playing for a top club, what does your league look like? How many matches do you play and what teams are in your league?

I am sincerely trying to gauge the competitive level. At what point do the best clubs in Ontario at that age play each other?

[Stoppage Time]

7 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

How's the U12s coach going to brag to his mates about how great his team is and how they won X number of trophies last year if his best players are doing the business for the U14s coach?

Which is exactly the problem, one I fell into for a bit while coaching youth basketball many years ago until no less than the Canadian national women's basketball coach straightened me out after an event. Good lesson - player development and fun come first every time, not coach ego.

[Ottawafan]

16 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Just because I don't know: if you are 15-16 years old in Ottawa, playing for a top club, what does your league look like? How many matches do you play and what teams are in your league?

I am sincerely trying to gauge the competitive level. At what point do the best clubs in Ontario at that age play each other?

It was a provincial league, OYSL.  Part of a promotion/relegation system which had the 10 top teams from across the various regions in Ontario.   Last year of the league was with the 2000's, where Ottawa had the top 2 teams in the league.  OSU and Gloucester ( David's team ).  

But as with everything in this game in Canada, it is about controlling the money.  OSA wouldn't sanction the OYSL ( it was run as a private league ) anymore and came out with their own version to be have more control.  Clubs/teams spend crazy amounts of money to be part of the pyramid of play OPDL system.  It is also partly designed to allow the provincial/national coaches to view the players in a concentrated enviro as too many kids were going unnoticed.  Kids like Twardyk.