General Discussion on CMNT

[Obinna]

53 minutes ago, An Observer said:

He did play for U20s I think or was the Olympic roster.  Not saying he was trying to grab the attention of Algeria but had been on a youth roster and played some limited minutes. 
 

Yeah he did play but wasn't he a late addition? I know Abzi was. My point was that these guys (or at least Abzi) should have been on the proper roster, not being named as alternatives and then getting to play due to circumstance. Perhaps then he would have felt more affinity toward us. And I don't think it's that we need to treat dual nationals special, I think Abzi and Farsi simply should have been called sooner based on form. The very moment Abzi moved to France and started getting minutes he should have been called up. Maybe he was and declined? For Farsi I think it's understandable he wasn't called 2 years ago with Cavalry, but maybe we could havr brought him into camp late last season, when he was just breaking into Columbus 1st team. On the other hand, prepping for WC was priority, not growing the pool, so I get why they weren't called. Just unfortunate I guess.

[A_Gagne]

On 5/19/2023 at 3:40 PM, Bigandy said:

Our national team should not be used to prop up the domestic league. The domestic league should be used to prop up the national team. Why would we incentivize that playing in the CPL gets you a free call up to the CMNT. It would encourage our guys to not push themselves to higher levels. 

Leaving spots open on the 60 man list is strange but it makes no sense to include some CPL player over guys like priso, farsi, or colyn. 

I think doing the former could help lead to the latter.

And I would definitely include a player bossing it in the CPL over a guy getting garbage minutes in MLS.

Edited May 21, 2023 by A_Gagne

[Ottawafan]

21 hours ago, El Hombre said:

Kris Twardek definitely picked the Czech Republic over Canada.  As did Jacob Lensky.

I think the narrative of "being overlooked" is a convenient excuse they tell themselves to justify chasing their true dreams especially when we're talking about U-17 teams and maybe being born in a place like Calgary or something (regardless of how much of an "English household" you grew up in).

Twardek wanted to play for Canada. His club begged the CSA to come watch them play. Both in Ottawa and in Toronto when the 97’s played OYSL. They chose to ignore him only to cry foul and act like they were spurned when his pops reached out to Czech and see if he could get in a camp to be viewed. 

[Ottawafan]

On 5/19/2023 at 5:14 PM, Shway said:

This isn’t true. Usually happens when they are snubbed by France…  

But France wanted Zidane, Benzema, and Fekir and has deemed Auroar as surplus so now he represents Algeria. 

No one, and I mean no one picks their ancestry country before their birth country…they only do when they are overlooked. Obviously the anomaly is when the ancestry is beneficial for their career, but in Abzi or Farsi case…that isn’t a sure thing.

David was born in USA and was in their radar by 14. They invited him to camps but he declined and chose to play for Canada. 

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, Ottawafan said:

David was born in USA and was in their radar by 14. They invited him to camps but he declined and chose to play for Canada. 

JD lived in the US for a total of 3 months.  Not sure that is a strong argument.  

[narduch]

21 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

JD lived in the US for a total of 3 months.  Not sure that is a strong argument.  

Seriously one of the most disingenuous arguments 

[Ottawafan]

39 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

JD lived in the US for a total of 3 months.  Not sure that is a strong argument.  

Apparently no one will pick a NT other than their birth country until they are spurned by said country. At 14 nobody knew what his future pro career would look like; the smart play would have been jumping at a higher profile program. 

[dyslexic nam]

32 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Apparently no one will pick a NT other than their birth country until they are spurned by said country. At 14 nobody knew what his future pro career would look like; the smart play would have been jumping at a higher profile program. 

In the context of Abzi, I think a more realistic interpretation of @Shway’s point is about the country they were born and grew up in.   Using JD as the most extreme outlier example may refute his point taken very literally (point for you) but I don’t think thats what was intended.  

[Shway]

27 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Apparently no one will pick a NT other than their birth country until they are spurned by said country. At 14 nobody knew what his future pro career would look like; the smart play would have been jumping at a higher profile program. 

Okay you clearly didn’t comprehend what was being said, and starting reaching for guys that still didn’t make sense. Maybe you didn’t know but JD was raised in Canada. Reach for another player, I’m really interested in who you come up with. 
 

 I know Diego Costa falls under this, but again he was overlooked by Brazil until they realized they were going to lose him.

[Ottawafan]

8 minutes ago, Shway said:

Okay you clearly didn’t comprehend what was being said, and starting reaching for guys that still didn’t make sense. Maybe you didn’t know but JD was raised in Canada. Reach for another player, I’m really interested in who you come up with. 
 

 I know Diego Costa falls under this, but again he was overlooked by Brazil until they realized they were going to lose him.

Been watching David play since he was 9. 

[Shway]

4 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Been watching David play since he was 9. 

okay…that’s super cool to watch his trajectory.
But what’s your point exactly?

[Ottawafan]

1 minute ago, Shway said:

okay…that’s super cool to watch his trajectory.
But what’s your point exactly?

Just that your statement doesn’t make sense. Iff the top of my head, Sale, Flores, Jebbison, Owen you know who, Tomori, Bunbury. I’m sure there’s countless others. All players born in Canada and had they chosen to play for us would have been called. 
 

[Obinna]

I believe @Ottawafanis right about David with respect to the USA calling him up at a young age. I have seen several USA fans site this when complaining why David was born there but doesn't play for them (yes that is/was a common question amongst them believe or not). Now that Balogun is on board and they have a "proper 9" those discussions should dry up, but they are a thing and the USA did try and bring him in before he was a Canadian international. I didn't know the exact age (I figured 16ish) but if he's based in Ottawa andbeen watching David since he was 9 I will beleive him if he says 14 was the age the USA called him up.

By the way, this is nothing for or against the point being made about playing for the Country of your birth. Just wanted to point out the validitity of the USA calling David, because I understand they definitely tried and he turned them down. David also turned down MLS clubs too, I believe, so he's a kid who knows what he wants, probably unlike kids like Mitrovic. Unfortunately I am convinced Farsi knows what he wants too, which is not Canada. Jury is still out on Abzi but likely the same.

[Ottawafan]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

I believe @Ottawafanis right about David with respect to the USA calling him up at a young age. I have seen several USA fans site this when complaining why David was born there but doesn't play for them (yes that is/was a common question amongst them believe or not). Now that Balogun is on board and they have a "proper 9" those discussions should dry up, but they are a thing and the USA did try and bring him in before he was a Canadian international. I didn't know the exact age (I figured 16ish) but if he's based in Ottawa andbeen watching David since he was 9 I will beleive him if he says 14 was the age the USA called him up.

By the way, this is nothing for or against the point being made about playing for the Country of your birth. Just wanted to point out the validitity of the USA calling David, because I understand they definitely tried and he turned them down. David also turned down MLS clubs too, I believe, so he's a kid who knows what he wants, probably unlike kids like Mitrovic. Unfortunately I am convinced Farsi knows what he wants too, which is not Canada. Jury is still out on Abzi but likely the same.

Not 100% when he was called for USA but the whispers were when he was young. About that age, 14. Know he was on the OSA/CSA radar at that point. And ya he turned down all the MLS clubs as well as the Fury. 

[InglewoodJack]

5 hours ago, narduch said:

Seriously one of the most disingenuous arguments 

As short as his time was in the US, I’ve seen JD post multiple American flags along with Canadian flags (and Haitian) over the years, he still feels American to some extent.

 

anyways, in terms of a name that fits this description- what about Italy’s Mateo Retegui? Born, raised, and has exclusively played in Argentina but now reps Italy. I guess he might’ve gotten “passed over” by Argentina or realized he might not make it onto the World Cup champ’s roster, but feel like the gap between being good enough for Italy and argentina is thin enough that he probably could’ve made an argentina team in some capacity.

Edited May 21, 2023 by InglewoodJack

[Stoppage Time]

Is is going to be tough to carve out 23 from that preliminary list even if there theres some obvious name which will not be included. Some good players are going to be left off. I can see this squad being the strongest possible since hardware is on the line, and the Gold Cup squad may have a couple of stronger guys rest and new faces take their place. Also, as always, injuries and match fitness will play a big role.

[El Hombre]

15 hours ago, Ottawafan said:

Twardek wanted to play for Canada. His club begged the CSA to come watch them play. Both in Ottawa and in Toronto when the 97’s played OYSL. They chose to ignore him only to cry foul and act like they were spurned when his pops reached out to Czech and see if he could get in a camp to be viewed. 

There it is.  Sure, that's a nice little story that he can tell everyone to justify why he reached out to play for the Czechs.  I'm sure he did everything he could and was left with no other option.  

I did a deep dive on Twardek several years ago somewhere else on this site, so I don't want to repeat all that again.  But, in short, he would've been the youngest player on our 2013 U-17 squad when it went to qualification and by the time the U17 World Cup came around (which we qualified for BTW and the Czechs didn't), he was already playing with them.  But sure, hold on to the narrative that the CSA is incompetent in every way that helps justify any uncomfortable decisions that might be taken.  They fuck up (a lot) but not being good enough for one of our better, historically speaking, U-17 teams does not mean he was ignored. 

[Ottawafan]

He wasn’t asking to be placed in a team, he was asking to be scouted. OSU wanted him to be viewed, to be considered for a tryout. Clubs do this all the time to push their players. CSA couldn’t be bothered. They chose to ignore him and didn’t come out to watch him. To suggest otherwise is a false narrative. 

[Ottawafan]

21 hours ago, Shway said:

Reach for another player, I’m really interested in who you come up with. 
 

 

Did I and other posters come up with enough examples for you?  Or do those reaches not count?

[narduch]

This probably speaks more to the CSA bias for the 3 MLS teams when choosing youth teams more than anything else.

It's nothing nefarious 

[Ottawafan]

It honestly was pure laziness combined with you aren’t in our preferred pathway ( MLS youth teams ) arrogance. For those of us who have watched the OSA and CSA operate it was a pretty common occurrence. 
David was such an immense talent that even the CSA couldn’t overlook him. 

[Shway]

1 hour ago, Ottawafan said:

Did I and other posters come up with enough examples for you?  Or do those reaches not count?

I had to go back and reread how this conversation came about, and of course there was a derailment from where it started. 

- Kadegne made mention about “North Africans” choosing their ancestry before their birth country…

- To which I pointed out that, it doesn’t happened unless those players are snubbed and overlooked.

- Then El Hombre mentioned Twardek and Lensky who picked Czech over Canada…

- To which I mentioned that Canadians have always been an exception to this rule, especially when their ancestry (specifically European) allows them greater access to the European football world especially during times when Canada wasn’t worth shit. It happens often with Canadians but rarely elsewhere (Diego Costa being an anomaly)

- then you made mention of Jonathan David being American and that you’ve watched him since he was kid. You could be right about him getting called up at 14 by the US, but you never made mention of why he snubbed them.

- then you proceeded to strengthen my point by listing even more Canadians who chose ancestry in the hope of a better footballing opportunity. 

There’s clearly been a misunderstanding, as it seems you may have not followed this rabbit trail, respectfully.

[Ottawafan]

8 minutes ago, Shway said:

I had to go back and reread how this conversation came about, and of course there was a derailment from where it started. 

- Kadegne made mention about “North Africans” choosing their ancestry before their birth country…

- To which I pointed out that, it doesn’t happened unless those players are snubbed and overlooked.

- Then El Hombre mentioned Twardek and Lensky who picked Czech over Canada…

- To which I mentioned that Canadians have always been an exception to this rule, especially when their ancestry (specifically European) allows them greater access to the European football world especially during times when Canada wasn’t worth shit. It happens often with Canadians but rarely elsewhere (Diego Costa being an anomaly)

- then you made mention of Jonathan David being American and that you’ve watched him since he was kid. You could be right about him getting called up at 14 by the US, but you never made mention of why he snubbed them.

- then you proceeded to strengthen my point by listing even more Canadians who chose ancestry in the hope of a better footballing opportunity. 

There’s clearly been a misunderstanding, as it seems you may have not followed this rabbit trail, respectfully.

Odd explanation not based on your original statement or follow up attempt at being flippant. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Ottawafan said:

He wasn’t asking to be placed in a team, he was asking to be scouted. OSU wanted him to be viewed, to be considered for a tryout. Clubs do this all the time to push their players. CSA couldn’t be bothered. They chose to ignore him and didn’t come out to watch him. To suggest otherwise is a false narrative. 

The CSA is a big bad wolf, if I understand you correctly. 

Also: the CSA is one single thing, like a single individual. A faceless, nameless being with total and absolute responsibility. Who "couldn't be bothered". The CSA is Leviathan.

Old boy insider sour grapes is not a particularly original narrative.

[InglewoodJack]

21 minutes ago, Shway said:

- then you made mention of Jonathan David being American and that you’ve watched him since he was kid. You could be right about him getting called up at 14 by the US, but you never made mention of why he snubbed them

“Before David completed his move to Gent, he was called into a U.S. U-20 camp by Tab Ramos. David thought about it but ultimately declined the invitation, choosing to focus on making a positive first impression in Belgium, although he knew all along where his international allegiance lay.

 

“Canada is the country where I really grew up,” he said. “It’s the country that welcomed me. I owe it to the country to play for them and fight for them.”

https://theathletic.com/1052823/2019/06/28/what-has-happened-to-me-is-really-unbelievable-jonathan-davids-rise-from-amateur-soccer-to-canadas-national-team/?source=user_shared_article

Edited May 22, 2023 by InglewoodJack