General Discussion on CMNT

[El Hombre]

Idea: Herdman approaches CSB to help bankroll an annual January camp with a two game series against a small caribbean nation.  CSB agrees to do this due to following gentleman's agreement in place - 5 to 8 CPL players are invited and CPL players get at least 150 minutes of game time. 

Benefits for CSB:

1 - "Canadian Internationals" from CPL helps legitimize the league and give it a bit of cachet.
2 - Potential increase in sale of CPL players with Canadian caps (regardless of the fact that they were B or C team caps).
3 - Might attract more players away from MLS Next Pro and towards the CPL if these types of opportunities arise.

It's a win - win - win situation:

Win #1 - CSB gets the above.
Win #2 - Canadian camp gets subsidized.
Win #3 - I finally get rightly recognized as the smartest man around.

[dyslexic nam]

Even a blind squirrel finds the occasional nut.  

[dyslexic nam]

13 hours ago, El Hombre said:

Idea: Herdman approaches CSB to help bankroll an annual January camp with a two game series against a small caribbean nation.  CSB agrees to do this due to following gentleman's agreement in place - 5 to 8 CPL players are invited and CPL players get at least 150 minutes of game time. 

Benefits for CSB:

1 - "Canadian Internationals" from CPL helps legitimize the league and give it a bit of cachet.
2 - Potential increase in sale of CPL players with Canadian caps (regardless of the fact that they were B or C team caps).
3 - Might attract more players away from MLS Next Pro and towards the CPL if these types of opportunities arise.

It's a win - win - win situation:

Win #1 - CSB gets the above.
Win #2 - Canadian camp gets subsidized.
Win #3 - I finally get rightly recognized as the smartest man around.

(But it is actually a pretty damn solid idea).  

[QBCS]

36 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

(But it is actually a pretty damn solid idea).  

Maybe throw in a CPL stadium as well. Wanderers grounds or starlight would be perfect venues for something like this

[El Hombre]

42 minutes ago, QBCS said:

Maybe throw in a CPL stadium as well. Wanderers grounds or starlight would be perfect venues for something like this

I thought so too, but then it might be hard to get a Caribbean country to come up in January for a kickabout.

I think this might have to be a Bradenton thing.  

[Bigandy]

17 hours ago, El Hombre said:

Brotherhood shmotherhood.  That was good for the lead-up to Qatar but now we've shown we belong on the big stage and deserve to be there we need to come up with something different in the lead-up to 2026.

Maybe something along the lines of "Stop fucking around and put the ball in the damn net."

The hate against the brotherhood alwasy confused me. 

Was there a single player on the WC roster where there was clearly a better alternative left at home? I dont think so.

So you take your best players, turn them into friends instead of cliques, you welcome new players into a positive environment, you get buy in from the players into team systems and a willingness for stars to play matches in terrible conditions in central america. There is literally not one reason why the brotherhood was bad. 

It feels like your implying our game plan was "brotherhood" and thats all we have in our arsenal. Clearly our game plans at the WC were very tactically inspired (maybe wrong tactics but we played incredibly aggressive). We didnt tell our players to go out on the field and hug each other. 

I agree we need to improve but you wouldnt take off the wheels off a car because you need a bigger engine. 

 

[El Hombre]

12 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

The hate against the brotherhood alwasy confused me. 

Was there a single player on the WC roster where there was clearly a better alternative left at home? I dont think so.

So you take your best players, turn them into friends instead of cliques, you welcome new players into a positive environment, you get buy in from the players into team systems and a willingness for stars to play matches in terrible conditions in central america. There is literally not one reason why the brotherhood was bad. 

It feels like your implying our game plan was "brotherhood" and thats all we have in our arsenal. Clearly our game plans at the WC were very tactically inspired (maybe wrong tactics but we played incredibly aggressive). We didnt tell our players to go out on the field and hug each other. 

I agree we need to improve but you wouldnt take off the wheels off a car because you need a bigger engine. 

 

No, you got me wrong.  The "brotherhood" was perfect and exactly what we needed.  We had been underperforming for decades not necessarily because we didn't have the talent, but because we didn't have the motivation and the cohesion.  One of the reasons I am Herdman's biggest fan is because he had the intangibles to unlock this belief which had been missing for so long.  This was vitally important.

What I am saying is that we now need to take that next step.  We reached the top of the mountain, now we need to act like we belong there.  The "brotherhood" had a bit of a David vs. Goliath bent to it in that we needed each one of our players to believe that we can compete with the best.  Now we know that we can, so we need to continue to grow mentally.  We're no longer the underdog, but in fact should see ourselves as the top dog.  If you want to join this team, you need to have that belief.

So, I'm not necessarily advocating for the notion of a "brotherhood" to be abandoned completely (despite my flippant comment above) but to evolve.  Just because you were part of the brotherhood in the past doesn't mean you can rest on your laurels and coast.  You have to keep getting better because now Canada is a soccer nation and we got kids coming up ready to take your place.

[InglewoodJack]

I think the notion of the "brotherhood" was taken too literally. Herdman wanted to create a culture of guys who were excited to put on the Canada shirt, guys who know each time they travel half way across the world to play a game that the rest of their guys are also making that sacrifice, to really create something sustainable that players can frankly give a shit about. It devolved into this idea that it meant that the CANMNT from September 2021 was frozen in time and that every player on that team has a permanent roster spot- the "Liam Fraser clause" as you will. I don't think that was ever the intention. It's more that if Davies commits to flying from Munich to San Pedro Sula to play a match in 47 degree weather, that Jonathan David and Stephen Eustaquio and Tajon Buchanan are going to be there and they're also all fighting for trophies.  You have to keep in mind that our players come from such diverse backgrounds- Davies and to a lesser extent David are international super stars who don't need the international game to advance their careers, guys like Osorio who has reached the pinnacle of his career, guys like Alistair Johnston who would run through a cement wall for the team, guys like Buchanan, Laryea, Cyle Larin who have used the national team to improve their club situation- it's really easy for different groups of players to have different goals in playing for Canada, and as a team builder, it's important to bridge the gap between all of those players, hence a "brotherhood".

I know some people disagree with a few call ups- Liam Fraser and CAB over like, I dunno Victor Loturi and Theo Corbeanu, and I get it, but when you build a roster and you're rounding out the edges, you might prioritize guys who bring good vibes are are buddies with the team vs. players who are a bit better but maybe don't gel as much in the dressing room (yet). Not saying those two players are bad vibes, just that if anyone's ever played team sports, you know that sometimes it's more important for your end of the bench guys to bring vibes than significant contributions.

This is very similar to what our national basketball team is trying to do but on a smaller scale. No one cares about CANMNT basketball historically, but Nick Nurse & co got a core 12 players to commit to showing up and actually caring about international basketball, and since then, we've seen more NBA players than ever actually show up to tournaments (crazy that SGA showed up to play complete minnows then turned around and put up a near-MVP season in OKC).

[jordan]

Preliminary roster

[VinceA]

Aidan Morris on the list is odd. He's already a senior side player for the US with a lot of hype right now. Why would he agree to be put on this list? More likely he gets cap tied this summer with the US.

Edited May 19, 2023 by VinceA

[jordan]

I thought with these lists you have to agree to your inclusion which should mean a conversation took place

[narduch]

Koleosho on the list is interesting 

[sebdeserio]

Kerr is a bit of a weird one but no chance he makes the squad.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 minute ago, narduch said:

Koleosho on the list is interesting 

I'd venture to guess that the only NT coach he speaks with is Herdman, and the only full NT players he knows and is in regular contact with are Canadian. He was apparently in the loop for tactical sessions in the months preceeding the WC, for that friendly call up as well. We are maybe underestimating what this human engagement might mean for him.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Overall, an exciting list of players, so many new and emerging names and really not that many veterans nearing retirement, maybe only 3.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist

[dyslexic nam]

So, notable inclusions for me are Bombito, Kerr, Morris, McGill, Ahmed and Rea.  Not sure who has made the 60-man cut before.  

Loturi, Nelson, JMR and Choiniere are also returning for the roster list.  

Pretty encouraging pool when you think about the quality of guys that won’t make it onto the roster.   
 

[Jack1997]

Sucks for Cambridge, probably would’ve made it if it was due a week later, hopefully Herdmann reaches out to him and says he wish he could be there and it was jut unfortunate circumstances.

[Jack1997]

Also no Sigur is surprising.

[canuckgbp]

2 minutes ago, Jack1997 said:

Sucks for Cambridge, probably would’ve made it if it was due a week later, hopefully Herdmann reaches out to him and says he wish he could be there and it was jut unfortunate circumstances.

I know loyalty and blah blah blah… I’d have switched him for Ayo. Not sure why he is being included, he isn’t even in “decent” form. 

[InglewoodJack]

Here’s the US one. Interesting that Morris is on that one and Koleosho is not:

 

[narduch]

48 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I'd venture to guess that the only NT coach he speaks with is Herdman, and the only full NT players he knows and is in regular contact with are Canadian. He was apparently in the loop for tactical sessions in the months preceeding the WC, for that friendly call up as well. We are maybe underestimating what this human engagement might mean for him.

He's not on the US list.

[Soccerpro2]

No Farsi?

[InglewoodJack]

7 minutes ago, canuckgbp said:

I know loyalty and blah blah blah… I’d have switched him for Ayo. Not sure why he is being included, he isn’t even in “decent” form. 

I honestly don’t understand including Akinola at all. If you want an MLS guy, JRR can give you the same production, if you want a higher potential guy put Jebbison on there and see what happens, I mean hell, put Woobens Pacius as a nice shout out to the CPL, doubt the results change much. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by InglewoodJack

[Jack1997]

3 minutes ago, Soccerpro2 said:

No Farsi?

Good point didn’t even notice that, there’s no reason ZBG and Petrasso should be there over Sigur and Farsi.

[InglewoodJack]

Also nice to see Cavalini back in the mix. He’s yet another reason why Akinola has to place here. If your depth chart is David - Larin - Cava - Ugbo and then some new young names behind them, I really don’t get it.