General Discussion on CMNT

[Kadenge]

Haha thay had to nominate 2 Americans to keep pace with Canada. This should be a slam dunk for Davies or David.

[narduch]

2 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Haha thay had to nominate 2 Americans to keep pace with Canada. This should be a slam dunk for Davies or David.

Shocked there is only 1 Mexican

[Ivan]

13 minutes ago, narduch said:

Shocked there is only 1 Mexican

Shocked Estaqiuo wasn't nominated.  He's had a better year than all those guys excluding Davies and David! 😄

[SoccMan]

15 minutes ago, narduch said:

Shocked there is only 1 Mexican

I think Chucky Lozano at my Napoli team who are having a great season , could have been nominated he has been getting some decent minutes with Napoli and has been contributing.

[Jack1997]

What is Ochoa and Pulisic doing there?

[sose]

did Pulisic even play this year? lol

[InglewoodJack]

2 minutes ago, sose said:

did Pulisic even play this year? lol

Hey now, let’s not forget that one goal he scored 5 months ago

[RS]

It's for 2022.

[Obinna]

This is a 2-horse race between Pulisic and Davies. Possibly a 3-horse race with David, but that's probably me being Canadian. 

My gut tells me Pulisic may win due to the importance of that WC goal, which got the USA out of the group, something Mexico and Canada couldn't do.

However, put that up against Davies scoring Canada's first goal and generally being a more important player for his club and Davies should hopefully win this again. 

Perhaps it is edge Pulisic where it counts most, but here's a look at some other considerations. 

Pulisic:

FA Cup runner-up

EFL Cup runner-up

Davies:

IFFHS Men's World Team

Canadian Men's Player of the Year

Bundesliga Team of the Season

DFL Supercup Winner

Bundesliga Winner

I think that's clear advantage Davies, but who knows how much they factor that in. May be a desire to give it to just give it to someone else if they deem it to be close. Depends on how they decide, I guess. 

[VinceA]

The US is telling people to go vote? Is this a popularity award?

[dyslexic nam]

7 minutes ago, VinceA said:

The US is telling people to go vote? Is this a popularity award?

“Fan votes on Concacaf.com account for a portion of the overall votes.”

You can vote here: 

https://www.concacaf.com/concacaf-awards

[Metro]

4 hours ago, SoccMan said:

I think Chucky Lozano at my Napoli team who are having a great season , could have been nominated he has been getting some decent minutes with Napoli and has been contributing.

I’m surprised he wasn’t nominated.

[Free kick]

3 hours ago, VinceA said:

 Is this a popularity award?

  It definitely is a popularity award.  All of these awards are popularity award.  Most of the voters will likely be american so we should expect an american to win 

[The Pessimist]

 

For those hoping Ancelotti becomes the new Canada coach. It looks like there's competition for his services from Brazil.

 

[InglewoodJack]

On 3/17/2023 at 3:25 PM, Obinna said:

This is a 2-horse race between Pulisic and Davies. Possibly a 3-horse race with David, but that's probably me being Canadian. 

My gut tells me Pulisic may win due to the importance of that WC goal, which got the USA out of the group, something Mexico and Canada couldn't do.

However, put that up against Davies scoring Canada's first goal and generally being a more important player for his club and Davies should hopefully win this again. 

Perhaps it is edge Pulisic where it counts most, but here's a look at some other considerations. 

Pulisic:

FA Cup runner-up

EFL Cup runner-up

Davies:

IFFHS Men's World Team

Canadian Men's Player of the Year

Bundesliga Team of the Season

DFL Supercup Winner

Bundesliga Winner

I think that's clear advantage Davies, but who knows how much they factor that in. May be a desire to give it to just give it to someone else if they deem it to be close. Depends on how they decide, I guess. 

I don't think any of this puts Pulisic ahead of AD- isn't he not even an every day starter at Chelsea anymore I think? Like you mentioned, the only way that Pulisic wins is if they decide to give it to someone new, but even then, I think Jonathan David has a better case than Pulisic IMO. He's also only started a single Champions League game this season. I don't know that Americans are invested enough in Pulisic to overpower the coach/player vote or whatever the rest of the tally comes from.

Homer, maybe, but Davies is currently, and maybe the only ever elite world class player from Concacaf. Unless he misses a significant part of the season, someone randomly puts in 20+ goals in the EPL or a keeper stands on his head and helps his team make a daringly deep champions league run, there's no reason why Davies shouldn't win the next 5-6 in a row.

[Obinna]

54 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I don't think any of this puts Pulisic ahead of AD- isn't he not even an every day starter at Chelsea anymore I think? Like you mentioned, the only way that Pulisic wins is if they decide to give it to someone new, but even then, I think Jonathan David has a better case than Pulisic IMO. He's also only started a single Champions League game this season. I don't know that Americans are invested enough in Pulisic to overpower the coach/player vote or whatever the rest of the tally comes from.

Homer, maybe, but Davies is currently, and maybe the only ever elite world class player from Concacaf. Unless he misses a significant part of the season, someone randomly puts in 20+ goals in the EPL or a keeper stands on his head and helps his team make a daringly deep champions league run, there's no reason why Davies shouldn't win the next 5-6 in a row.

I hope you are right.

I always try and check my biases when it comes to this stuff. So, while I want to think that David has as much chance as Pulisic, I find it hard to tell if that's the bias talking. For as much as Pulisic has "struggled" with Chelsea, he's still playing for Chelsea and David is playing for Lille. Pulisic never won anything with Chelsea last year, but neither did David at Lillie. David scored more goals, but Ligue 1 is inferior, and David is a striker, whereas Pulisic is a winger (and at times was a wingback), and from those positions he still managed 8 or 9 goals, if I recall correctly. Pulisic is also the face of his national team, whilst David plays second fiddle to Davies (or at least it's a 1A and 1B). That perception probably matters, like it or not.

Again, I love David and think he's elite trending toward world class, whereas Pulisic is elite and not trending toward world class. Feels like Pulisic is at his ceiling and feels like David is nowhere close to his. I agree that Davies is the only world class player from our confederation and if it were up to me, he'll win this award once again, but you know how these things go when you have a dominant player with everyone else behind him. If the dominant guy (Davies) has a down year dropping him within reaching distance to the next best player (Pulisic), that temptation is there to just go with someone different. That's what I feel may happen here. That factor aside though, Davies should win yet again. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Obinna

[Stryker911]

2 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

I don't think any of this puts Pulisic ahead of AD- isn't he not even an every day starter at Chelsea anymore I think? Like you mentioned, the only way that Pulisic wins is if they decide to give it to someone new, but even then, I think Jonathan David has a better case than Pulisic IMO. He's also only started a single Champions League game this season. I don't know that Americans are invested enough in Pulisic to overpower the coach/player vote or whatever the rest of the tally comes from.

Homer, maybe, but Davies is currently, and maybe the only ever elite world class player from Concacaf. Unless he misses a significant part of the season, someone randomly puts in 20+ goals in the EPL or a keeper stands on his head and helps his team make a daringly deep champions league run, there's no reason why Davies shouldn't win the next 5-6 in a row.

I thought the same thing for thr player of the year that we vote on. And that has gone to different players every year since Davies won his first.

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

I don't think any of this puts Pulisic ahead of AD- isn't he not even an every day starter at Chelsea anymore I think? Like you mentioned, the only way that Pulisic wins is if they decide to give it to someone new, but even then, I think Jonathan David has a better case than Pulisic IMO. He's also only started a single Champions League game this season. I don't know that Americans are invested enough in Pulisic to overpower the coach/player vote or whatever the rest of the tally comes from.

Homer, maybe, but Davies is currently, and maybe the only ever elite world class player from Concacaf. Unless he misses a significant part of the season, someone randomly puts in 20+ goals in the EPL or a keeper stands on his head and helps his team make a daringly deep champions league run, there's no reason why Davies shouldn't win the next 5-6 in a row.

You ruin your arguments with historically ignorant statements like that. 

[Bigandy]

22 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You ruin your arguments with historically ignorant statements like that. 

Would love to see a list of the elite players from concacaf. Mexico has had some top players. Do dempsey, howard, or donavon make it on the list? Wes morgan?  That would be a great list

1. Marquez 
2. Sanchez 
3. Navas
4. Dwight York
5. Donavon
6. Dempsey
7. Howard
8. Friedel
9. Davies
10. Pulisic
11. Javier Hernandez
12. Guardado
13. Carlos Vela
14. Lozano 
15. Wes Morgan
16. Bryan Ruiz
 
Some great players but how many are world class.... whos missing?

[InglewoodJack]

2 hours ago, Obinna said:

I hope you are right.

I always try and check my biases when it comes to this stuff. So, while I want to think that David has as much chance as Pulisic, I find it hard to tell if that's the bias talking. For as much as Pulisic has "struggled" with Chelsea, he's still playing for Chelsea and David is playing for Lille. Pulisic never won anything with Chelsea last year, but neither did David at Lillie. David scored more goals, but Ligue 1 is inferior, and David is a striker, whereas Pulisic is a winger (and at times was a wingback), and from those positions he still managed 8 or 9 goals, if I recall correctly. Pulisic is also the face of his national team, whilst David plays second fiddle to Davies (or at least it's a 1A and 1B). That perception probably matters, like it or not.

Again, I love David and think he's elite trending toward world class, whereas Pulisic is elite and not trending toward world class. Feels like Pulisic is at his ceiling and feels like David is nowhere close to his. I agree that Davies is the only world class player from our confederation and if it were up to me, he'll win this award once again, but you know how these things go when you have a dominant player with everyone else behind him. If the dominant guy (Davies) has a down year dropping him within reaching distance to the next best player (Pulisic), that temptation is there to just go with someone different. That's what I feel may happen here. That factor aside though, Davies should win yet again. 

If David ends up in the premier league in a similar playing situation to Pulisic, I wouldn't consider him for this award, and by the same token, Davies is a world beater "because" he plays in the lesser Bundesliga (I know that isn't your argument, but soccer snobs would consider the Bundesliga closer to France than England, probably). Not to mention, Mbappe is scoring all these goals in France, and yet, he's considered one of the world's best. As far as face of national team, that's probably true, but aren't they making an explicit shift towards making Tyler Adams the new face?

I agree that a down Davies year and a top Pulisic year would and should give CP the award, same if Navas had an elite year- I just don't think Pulisic is having that year, and if anyone has an argument for having that sort of year, it's JD IMO- but I still think Davies should run away with this. Even Davies at his worst is still the best in the conference.

33 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You ruin your arguments with historically ignorant statements like that. 

To be honest I wrote most of my post thinking of Canada and the US where I think that's true. A few older players from elsewhere I missed.

[BearcatSA]

8 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Would love to see a list of the elite players from concacaf. Mexico has had some top players. Do dempsey, howard, or donavon make it on the list? Wes morgan?  That would be a great list

1. Marquez 
2. Sanchez 
3. Navas
4. Dwight York
5. Donavon
6. Dempsey
7. Howard
8. Friedel
9. Davies
10. Pulisic
11. Javier Hernandez
12. Guardado
13. Carlos Vela
14. Lozano 
15. Wes Morgan
16. Bryan Ruiz
 
Some great players but how many are world class.... whos missing?

Keller?

[CanadaFan123]

14 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Would love to see a list of the elite players from concacaf. Mexico has had some top players. Do dempsey, howard, or donavon make it on the list? Wes morgan?  That would be a great list

1. Marquez 
2. Sanchez 
3. Navas
4. Dwight York
5. Donavon
6. Dempsey
7. Howard
8. Friedel
9. Davies
10. Pulisic
11. Javier Hernandez
12. Guardado
13. Carlos Vela
14. Lozano 
15. Wes Morgan
16. Bryan Ruiz
 
Some great players but how many are world class.... whos missing?

I mean, if you have Wes Morgan and Bryan Ruiz that opens the door quite a bit. Good players, but Atiba Hutchinson has had a better career than both. 

[Obinna]

56 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You ruin your arguments with historically ignorant statements like that. 

I missed that in his post - the part about "ever". Clearly that is inaccurate. Navas was world class for years and before him there were some others. Hugo Sanchez stands out as one, though I am too young to have watched him play for his RM in his prime. 

[Obinna]

20 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I agree that a down Davies year and a top Pulisic year would and should give CP the award, same if Navas had an elite year- I just don't think Pulisic is having that year, and if anyone has an argument for having that sort of year, it's JD IMO- but I still think Davies should run away with this. Even Davies at his worst is still the best in the conference.

I would say Pulisic 2022 was above his baseline. Davies 2022 was below his baseline. Davies' baseline is higher than Pulisic's, because he's a world class player that's more accomplished, but with him having a "down year" and Pulisic having an "up year" it probably puts Davies just slightly ahead of Pulisic, but perhaps that's close enough for the decision makers (whoever they are) to lean CP, if that makes sense...

[Bigandy]

24 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

I mean, if you have Wes Morgan and Bryan Ruiz that opens the door quite a bit. Good players, but Atiba Hutchinson has had a better career than both. 

but morgan's one season was just so magical. 

As for hutch - he's a legend but not world class IMO. So you are making a very good point. 

I mean, is chicharito even considered world class?