General Discussion on CMNT

[Unnamed Trialist]

5 hours ago, DoyleG said:

This rambling goes on and not explaining why there was a 1 month gap between the Group Stage and the Knockout Round.

 Two and half month gap maybe?

Anyways, if you not interested, just ignore me. It's not rambling, it is the format changing as they try to work it out. But if you know so much, why don't you explain it? It is still a more condensed formula than before.

I have actually seen a Davis Cup final, with some epic 5-set matches (Spain-Czech Republic). It is exciting if the rival fans travel and have a contingent. But it has a problem: you can win the Cup on day two winning Friday singles and the doubles, and then day three is cancelled or played as friendlies, the tickets are worthless basically. You kill off a critical day fans and teams and host have booked for and scheduled for.  Now, if one team wins the first two singles, they win, but it is only a couple hours earlier than if they'd played the final doubles. The current formula reduces travelling for Davis Cup, makes some concession to lively home crowds, condenses schedule, ensures competitive matches over Friday, Saturday, Sunday. If you watched the last final (partially, it coincided almost with Canada-Croatia) there was a lively Canadian contingent in Malaga.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist

[BearcatSA]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The current formula reduces travelling for Davis Cup, makes some concession to lively home crowds, condenses schedule, ensures competitive matches over Friday, Saturday, Sunday. If you watched the last final (partially, it coincided almost with Canada-Croatia) there was a lively Canadian contingent in Malaga.

As you alluded in an earlier post, a final weekend tourney format of eight teams means you might get some more star power on display, giving it the flavour of a major. 

[BearcatSA]

...

Edited January 3, 2023 by BearcatSA

[Colonel Green]

Watching the World Juniors really makes me long for a day where Canada's U-20 soccer teams get (and warrant) that kind of popular support.

[narduch]

29 minutes ago, Colonel Green said:

Watching the World Juniors really makes me long for a day where Canada's U-20 soccer teams get (and warrant) that kind of popular support.

Most major soccer powerhouses don't really care for their youth teams that way either. 

The way Canadians have embraced the World Juniors is a total anomaly 

[VinceA]

17 minutes ago, narduch said:

Most major soccer powerhouses don't really care for their youth teams that way either. 

The way Canadians have embraced the World Juniors is a total anomaly 

Yep and like the U20 teams people put way too much faith in some players. Remember Justin Pogge lmao

[gigi riva]

7 hours ago, Colonel Green said:

Watching the World Juniors really makes me long for a day where Canada's U-20 soccer teams get (and warrant) that kind of popular support.

With the exception of some African nations like Ghana, and Nigeria   most Sccer nations dont really make a big fuss of U20s . Hopefully some day we can actually qualify for one and have a succesful tournament just to create a buzz 

[gigi riva]

3 hours ago, gigi riva said:

With the exception of some African nations like Ghana, and Nigeria   most Soccer nations dont really make a big fuss of U20s . Hopefully some day we can actually qualify for one and have a succesful tournament just to create a buzz 

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, gigi riva said:

With the exception of some African nations like Ghana, and Nigeria   most Sccer nations dont really make a big fuss of U20s . Hopefully some day we can actually qualify for one and have a succesful tournament just to create a buzz 

I think we should clarify: most soccer nations do get very excited when their u-20 men or even u17, do well. Olympics as well. I have followed enough to know it is the case for South America, for the European nations too, Africa as you say. But of course it is in proportion and relative to the senior teams. I've watched a lot of u-17 and u-20 tournaments, since the 90s even, because in Spain they show them when Spain plays. 

I also went to the 1992 Olympic tournament, but not to the final Spain won, dumbly. 

With junior hockey, let's face it, the Canadian support is an anomaly, no other country gets that enthusiastic about it. So we get to host as much as we do, for a reason: it becomes the world junior showcase held in Canada, most teams are fine with it as they players get exposure. Canada gets good results because we play in front of partisan crowds. Only 5 other countries have won it total. Only 7 other have hosted. We've won it about 40% of the time, and almost half our wins were playing at home (and a lot of finals lost at home). 

[Stryker911]

Essentially the Juniors is our version of the Gold Cup. We have the most fans, which makes the most money, so we almost always host. I wonder if the Sweden hockey forum complains about that?

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I think we should clarify: most soccer nations do get very excited when their u-20 men or even u17, do well. Olympics as well. I have followed enough to know it is the case for South America, for the European nations too, Africa as you say. But of course it is in proportion and relative to the senior teams. I've watched a lot of u-17 and u-20 tournaments, since the 90s even, because in Spain they show them when Spain plays. 

I also went to the 1992 Olympic tournament, but not to the final Spain won, dumbly. 

With junior hockey, let's face it, the Canadian support is an anomaly, no other country gets that enthusiastic about it. So we get to host as much as we do, for a reason: it becomes the world junior showcase held in Canada, most teams are fine with it as they players get exposure. Canada gets good results because we play in front of partisan crowds. Only 5 other countries have won it total. Only 7 other have hosted. We've won it about 40% of the time, and almost half our wins were playing at home (and a lot of finals lost at home). 

We get good results because we are the best hockey nation in the world with the best talent, the best developmental leagues, the oldest and most developed hockey culture in the world, etc. Brazil doesn't win soccer games at home because Brazilian fans are insane (they are), they win because a ton of the best players in the world are Brazilian.

As for support, yes, we care about the juniors more than any other country, but it isn't like we're the only ones who support. Last night's Canada US game, the marquee game of the tournament drew 10k. Czechia x Sweden drew 9.200. In 2020, at the tournament in Czechia, the semis drew 8,600. in the 2016 tournament in Finland, Russia x USA semis drew 11k. 2014 semis in Sweden drew over 11k each too.

[dyslexic nam]

2 hours ago, Stryker911 said:

Essentially the Juniors is our version of the Gold Cup. We have the most fans, which makes the most money, so we almost always host. I wonder if the Sweden hockey forum complains about that?

Yeah but it is the right thing with the juniors and is borderline criminal with the Gold Cup.  Just because….
 

 

 

[maplebanana]

I've always assumed the world juniors gets so much support because it's our only venue for international hockey, outside of the olympics every 4 years (except it's going on 12 years now). And no, I don't count the IIHF world championship where none of the playoff-bound players go, or the World Cup/Canada Cup that happens randomly once a generation-ish. 

If there was no FIFA world cup (or one that happens sporadically at indeterminate times), I would imagine our U20 soccer team would get similar levels of support from the Canadian soccer community as the U20 hockey team gets from the Canadian hockey community (which is obviously much larger).

[Free kick]

The world junior gets so much support because the broadcaster “Created” the interest in it by hyping it up to the max.   This was started about 20-25 years ago. There is nothing wrong with the event itself but ask yourself this:  if there was so much interest in junior hockey, why aren't all junior hockey games in the CHL all sold out? Or why is there so little interest in the broadcast rights to CHL Junior hockey? 
 

The high Canadian interest in world juniors is proof that people will watch what they are told to watch rather than the BS notion that the broadcasters will only show what people are interested in.  There was no organic interest that came out of the blue for this thing because this event was held going as far back as the 70’s but no one talked about it then.  Then TSN acquired the content.  Content that would air at a time of the year that most people are at home with nothing else to do and marketed it by making it sound like it is a more significant global event that what it really is.  Reality,  the rest of the world doesnt know or care about the event.  

Edited January 5, 2023 by Free kick

[Obinna]

22 minutes ago, Free kick said:

The world junior gets so much support because the broadcaster “Created” the interest in it by hyping it up to the max.   This was started about 20-25 years ago. There is nothing wrong with the event itself but ask yourself this:  if there was so much interest in junior hockey, why aren't all junior hockey games in the CHL all sold out? Or why is there so little interest in the broadcast rights to CHL Junior hockey? 
 

The high Canadian interest in world juniors is proof that often people will watch what they are told to watch rather than the BS notion that the broadcasters will only show what people are interested in.T  There was no organic interest that came out of the blue for this thing because this event was held going as far back as the 70’s but no one talked about it then.  Then TSN acquired the content.  Content that would air at a time of the year that most people are at home with nothing else to do and marketed it by making it sound like it is a more significant global event that what it really is.  Reality,  the rest of the world doesnt know or care about the event.  

This point can obviously be applied to any sport as well, including our own.

Many people (thankfully) jumped on the CMNT bandwagon, but that was because TSN has millions of eyeballs on it and a giant megaphone behind it - in the form of commercials and other such promotions. This is why so many people jumped on the bandwagon. It was not because of the slow and steady organic groundswell of support that we've witnessed.

In essence, people tuned in because they were told it's the thing to watch and not miss out on.

This is why we've always been wanting networks like TSN to latch onto the national team. We always knew they have this sort of power (not just them - but all major networks) 

Edited January 5, 2023 by Obinna

[Free kick]

4 hours ago, Obinna said:

This point can obviously be applied to any sport as well, including our own.

Many people (thankfully) jumped on the CMNT bandwagon, but that was because TSN has millions of eyeballs on it and a giant megaphone behind it - in the form of commercials and other such promotions. This is why we had so many people jumped on the bandwagon, not because of the slow and steady organic groundswell of support that we've witnessed.

In essence, people tuned in because they were told it's the thing to watch and not miss out on.

This is why we've always been wanting networks like TSN to latch onto the national team. We always knew they have this sort of power (not just them - but all major networks) 

100%

with one caveat.  The MNT, for too offen, failed to get out of even the semifinal round of WCQ in Concacaf to countries most Canadians would have never heard of.   Thats hard to sell and its easy to understand why even the general public would be sceptical.   Unlike the Canadian junior hockey teams.   Yes,  the public at large is gullible….. and susceptible to marketing but to a point.  

Edited January 5, 2023 by Free kick

[BearcatSA]

37 minutes ago, Free kick said:

Content that would air at a time of the year that most people are at home with nothing else to do and marketed it by making it sound like it is a more significant global event that what it really is. 

I don't know what the overall numbers were for the summer version of the Covid postponed one but they seemed good for the semis and final.  But, yes, Christmas holiday season is a prime time.  

 

[dyslexic nam]

The world juniors is the perfect storm of Canadiana.  Hockey (our national passion), being played without team biases, by “good Canadian kids”, yet still a high enough level to be very high quality, covered extensively by a broadcaster that everyone has access to, at a time when most people are emotionally ready to chill out on the couch and watch TV while eating Christmas chocolate.   I agree that TSN has done an excellent job to capitalize on these conditions but I don’t think you can discount the almost perfect convergence of contributing conditions.   

[red card]

7 hours ago, Obinna said:

This point can obviously be applied to any sport as well, including our own.

Many people (thankfully) jumped on the CMNT bandwagon, but that was because TSN has millions of eyeballs on it and a giant megaphone behind it - in the form of commercials and other such promotions. This is why so many people jumped on the bandwagon. It was not because of the slow and steady organic groundswell of support that we've witnessed.

In essence, people tuned in because they were told it's the thing to watch and not miss out on.

This is why we've always been wanting networks like TSN to latch onto the national team. We always knew they have this sort of power (not just them - but all major networks) 

The World Cup was the main draw. Back in pre-cambrian age for interest in football in Canada, 1.6 million Canadians watched the 98 Final. 2.8 million watched the 2006 Final. The most watched football match remains the 2010 Final with 5.1 million. Second most watched was 4.9 million for the 2014 Final. 

Momentum for Canada specific interest was built during WCQ with the last 3 home matches averaging over 1 million viewers. 

For the Gen Z & below segment who mostly don't subscribe to paid linear tv, if they're interested in sports, they rely first on Youtube, IG, tiktok & twitter and then sports tv networks for their sports news. Many of this segment who had interest in the World Cup/Canada had no clue which broadcast platform was carrying the matches.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by red card

[SpursFlu]

Props to Halifax. They created a proper atmosphere in there. Do Maritimers ever disappoint?

Edited January 6, 2023 by SpursFlu

[Joe MacCarthy]

Some of the old soccer jealousy of other sports in Canada seems to be rearing its ugly head here.  That's something that hasn't been seen for a little while and at its zenith was quite pathetic.

And to correct some misinfo, the junior tournament was popularly broadcast in the 70s, in fact it was where most of us were introduced to Mr Gretzky and Canada's white and .blue uniforms

 

[EJsens1]

10 hours ago, Free kick said:

The world junior gets so much support because the broadcaster “Created” the interest in it by hyping it up to the max.   This was started about 20-25 years ago. There is nothing wrong with the event itself but ask yourself this:  if there was so much interest in junior hockey, why aren't all junior hockey games in the CHL all sold out? Or why is there so little interest in the broadcast rights to CHL Junior hockey? 
 

The high Canadian interest in world juniors is proof that people will watch what they are told to watch rather than the BS notion that the broadcasters will only show what people are interested in.  There was no organic interest that came out of the blue for this thing because this event was held going as far back as the 70’s but no one talked about it then.  Then TSN acquired the content.  Content that would air at a time of the year that most people are at home with nothing else to do and marketed it by making it sound like it is a more significant global event that what it really is.  Reality,  the rest of the world doesnt know or care about the event.  

You’re spot on. I’ve hated this tournament for years and this is from someone who works in hockey. It’s the biggest fraud of a tournament I’ve ever seen. You have about 4 good teams (Canada, US, Sweden and the Russians when they participate), Finland kind of in the middle, with the Czech’s and Slovaks another tier down, plus the rest. Nobody outside of Canada gives a fuck about this tournament. Hopefully they put the tournament back in Buffalo again for a 3rd time in less than a decade..

I get this is where TSN’s bread and butter is but as a soccer fan too, it’s frustrating to see 

[BearcatSA]

18 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

And to correct some misinfo, the junior tournament was popularly broadcast in the 70s, in fact it was where most of us were introduced to Mr Gretzky and Canada's white and blue uniforms.

I remember that one.  It was on CTV with Ron Reusch on pbp and Tom Watt doing the colour.  That tourney had some great future NHLers and future HoFers besides Wayne "Sink That Three!" Gretzky (shouldn't Janet and Rick Tocchet be doing that MGM Grand betting commercial?  Asking for a friend).  Prior to that, I don't remember the others being on tv much (apart from maybe the highlights). I don't even think the gold medal clinching game of our first victory in 1982 (it was purely a round robin with no playoff rounds) was shown live.  After that win, it gained more traction and then it really took off after the notoriety of the Theo Fleury brawl with the Soviets.

[Free kick]

10 hours ago, EJsens1 said:

You’re spot on. I’ve hated this tournament for years and this is from someone who works in hockey. It’s the biggest fraud of a tournament I’ve ever seen. You have about 4 good teams (Canada, US, Sweden and the Russians when they participate), Finland kind of in the middle, with the Czech’s and Slovaks another tier down, plus the rest. Nobody outside of Canada gives a fuck about this tournament. Hopefully they put the tournament back in Buffalo again for a 3rd time in less than a decade..

I get this is where TSN’s bread and butter is but as a soccer fan too, it’s frustrating to see 

Its strictly a money maker.  Its a good example of the sizzle (ie.: hype, marketing, making money) without the steak (ie.; the on-ice product,  the competition, the prestige of winning).  
 

I would never want to see the any U20 international tournament in soccer ever turn into something like this or be presented to me in the way the World juniors is presented.    Junior or U20 tournaments should be put into proper context.  By that i mean its something for the die hards to enjoy and something to gauge the future strength of a program and by extension the actual national teams.  
 

Nothing wrong with with having a Junior tournament and even televising it.  But its just a junior tournament,  nothing more than that its not worth spending thousands of dollars on to get tickets for.   With that kind of money, people could buy plane tickets and accommodations to actually go watch the real world championships that are held in May every year.  That being the event that actually has international prestige and defines your standing as a nation in the sport. 

[dyslexic nam]

11 minutes ago, Free kick said:

Its strictly a money maker.  Its a good example of the sizzle (ie.: hype, marketing, making money) without the steak (ie.; the on-ice product,  the competition, the prestige of winning).  
 

I would never want to see the any U20 international tournament in soccer ever turn into something like this or be presented to me in the way the World juniors is presented.    Junior or U20 tournaments should be put into proper context.  By that i mean its something for the die hards to enjoy and something to gauge the future strength of a program and by extension the actual national teams.  
 

Nothing wrong with with having a Junior tournament and even televising it.  But its just a junior tournament,  nothing more than that its not worth spending thousands of dollars on to get tickets for.   With that kind of money, people could buy plane tickets and accommodations to actually go watch the real world championships that are held in May every year.  That being the event that actually has international prestige and defines your standing as a nation in the sport. 

I have to admit that I don’t really understand this take at all.  How is it sizzle and no steak? it shows the strength and depth of national hockey programs, global hockey powers take the tournament very seriously, the on-ice product is excellent (this is much closer to NHL level play than the Olympic footy tournament is to the Champions League in my opinion) and the public has been invested in it both in Canada and abroad.  

My brother entered the lottery to get tickets and ended up in the stands last night (and for the semis).   He got to see two great hockey games, saw legitimate future superstars of the game, and watched Canada win a world championship in his favourite sport.  The number of people in the stands both here and in other host countries shows that this is a popular,  exciting tournament that people have really gotten behind.  Not sure why we would ever think it should only be for die-hands and doesn’t deserve the attention it gets.  We are a hockey crazy country and this tournament regularly shows us the best next-gen players in the world.  For me it is perfectly legitimate that it enjoys precisely the level of success and support that it does.