General Discussion on CMNT

[Kadenge]

4 hours ago, Ally McCoist said:

Akinola has been abysmal for TFC. He has not looked the same since that injury. Poor guy, not blaming him i do feel for him. But, I do not want him anywhere near a CanMNT jersey at this time.

vs Bahrain as a sub at striker for the MLS squad?

[PegCityCam]

Debate settled. TSN said so.

 

[InglewoodJack]

On 10/24/2022 at 8:00 AM, Kadenge said:

vs Bahrain as a sub at striker for the MLS squad?

Not that it's an either or question, but if we're going this deep in our bag for the Bahrain game, I would rather see what a guy like Sean Rea can do against Bahrain. Better opposition than the CPL, lower than what he'll likely face at CF Montreal next year.

[Wasp]

11 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Not that it's an either or question, but if we're going this deep in our bag for the Bahrain game, I would rather see what a guy like Sean Rea can do against Bahrain. Better opposition than the CPL, lower than what he'll likely face at CF Montreal next year.

Don't want to be a buzzkill, but I doubt we're going deep in our bag for Bahrain as it's a vital tune-up game for our MLS regulars who didn't make the playoffs (for example, Whitecaps and TFC players will have not played a meaningful game since October 9th), and for guys working their way back from injuries like Wotherspoon and Hutch. We may see an "all out-of-form" side vs. Bahrain with the likes of Cav, Kaye, Osorio, Wotherspoon, Hutch etc. but I highly doubt we'll see any speculative minutes from young players in the Bahrain or Japan games. Those matches are all about getting the squad who got us here as ready and in-form as possible for the big show.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Wasp

[InglewoodJack]

19 hours ago, Wasp said:

Don't want to be a buzzkill, but I doubt we're going deep in our bag for Bahrain as it's a vital tune-up game for our MLS regulars who didn't make the playoffs (for example, Whitecaps and TFC players will have not played a meaningful game since October 9th), and for guys working their way back from injuries like Wotherspoon and Hutch. We may see an "all out-of-form" side vs. Bahrain with the likes of Cav, Kaye, Osorio, Wotherspoon, Hutch etc. but I highly doubt we'll see any speculative minutes from young players in the Bahrain or Japan games. Those matches are all about getting the squad who got us here as ready and in-form as possible for the big show.

Right, but we don't have enough MLS players going to Qatar to even field a full roster. Off the top of my head, I would expect to see these guys play against Bahrain:

Crepeau

St. Clair

Ali Johnston

Kamal Miller

Richie Laryea

Joel Waterman

Piette

Kone

Kaye

Cavallini

Osorio

Wotherspoon

Hutchinson

That lineup is 11 starters, 1 sub, and one backup keeper. To make a starting lineup out of these players I think you need to go like 4-5-1 or something weird- plus you need subs- and because this is practice for the coaches too, Herdman will probably want to mirror the tactics he's gonna use in Qatar, and my guess is we're gonna see 4-5 non-world cup players who are going to act as stand ins for some of our other players that play in Europe. Maybe that's a Sean Rea playing as Jonathan David, maybe it's Jacen Russell Rowe playing as Cyle Larin, Raheem Edwards as a Junior Hoilett stand in, etc.

Someone mentioned in another thread that Adam Pearlman from TFC II will be at the camp. I would expect names like that to show up to Bahrain.

Edited October 27, 2022 by InglewoodJack

[Stryker911]

And just like that we have 4 Canadians playing in the knockout rounds of the Champions league. Assume that is a record.

I was fully expecting Athletico to score on their last minute corner.

[Kent]

My inlaws just gave me a Four Four Two magazine today that has a big World Cup bracket poster in it. I opened it up and it is actually the poster, plus the magazine, plus a World Cup guide. Every team at the World Cup gets a 1 or 2 page write up, and they also had other things like the favourites for the golden boot, rivalry matchups in the group stage, and players to watch, all being on the young side. Jonathan David was listed 3rd!

Then I open the magazine and see there is a 6 page (well, 4 page with a 2 page title image) feature on Canada! It was a pleasant surprise! Nothing earth shattering of course, all stuff that people on this forum know, and they spoke to Herdman and Marc Bircham for the feature. Worth picking up if you have the opportunity to do so.

[InglewoodJack]

19 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

Right, but we don't have enough MLS players going to Qatar to even field a full roster. Off the top of my head, I would expect to see these guys play against Bahrain:

Crepeau

St. Clair

Ali Johnston

Kamal Miller

Richie Laryea

Joel Waterman

Piette

Kone

Kaye

Cavallini

Osorio

Wotherspoon

Hutchinson

That lineup is 11 starters, 1 sub, and one backup keeper. To make a starting lineup out of these players I think you need to go like 4-5-1 or something weird- plus you need subs- and because this is practice for the coaches too, Herdman will probably want to mirror the tactics he's gonna use in Qatar, and my guess is we're gonna see 4-5 non-world cup players who are going to act as stand ins for some of our other players that play in Europe. Maybe that's a Sean Rea playing as Jonathan David, maybe it's Jacen Russell Rowe playing as Cyle Larin, Raheem Edwards as a Junior Hoilett stand in, etc.

Someone mentioned in another thread that Adam Pearlman from TFC II will be at the camp. I would expect names like that to show up to Bahrain.

Damn the northern futbol guys mentioned all the potential non Qatar guys I mentioned except for Rea as potential guys for the Bahrain match. Great minds eh….

[VinceA]

Honestly if Ugbo is sacrificed for Corbeanu or Millar I wouldn't mind. He's not been a factor at all lately for Troyes.

[SpursFlu]

Is it a fact that European guys won't or can't be there?

Edited October 27, 2022 by SpursFlu

[Bigandy]

@VinceA I think we should be careful writing off 1 of 3 players playing in a top 5 league. Ugbo's preseason was disrupted with the transfer and hes been played out of position. If you're going to use the logic that he hasnt been involved enough to warrant a call up then shouldn't larin be the first to get cut as hes also out of the picture for club brugge which is a lower level than troyes. I rate both millar and corbeanu but reducing our striker depth to david and larin only and increasing our deepest position, winger, seems short sighted.  We also have seen that larin is a great player for Canada but is probably not up to speed at the next level to reach a top 5 league. Ugbo has proven himself at a top 5 league, even if he is going through a rough patch right now. 

[InglewoodJack]

22 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

@VinceA I think we should be careful writing off 1 of 3 players playing in a top 5 league. Ugbo's preseason was disrupted with the transfer and hes been played out of position. If you're going to use the logic that he hasnt been involved enough to warrant a call up then shouldn't larin be the first to get cut as hes also out of the picture for club brugge which is a lower level than troyes. I rate both millar and corbeanu but reducing our striker depth to david and larin only and increasing our deepest position, winger, seems short sighted.  We also have seen that larin is a great player for Canada but is probably not up to speed at the next level to reach a top 5 league. Ugbo has proven himself at a top 5 league, even if he is going through a rough patch right now. 

I disagree that Ugbo should be cut for Corbeanu (I think both should be there), but I think it's important to keep in mind that Ugbo hasn't shown much of anything for Canada so far- limited playing time, sure, but the league you play in only goes so far. Troyes is also a relegation threat side in the 5th best league in the world, and Club Brugge is a Champions League team who just won the 6th or 7th best league in the world, and beats/stays competitive with the Portos, Leverkeusens, Atletis of the world. In fact, I think Larin getting to train with great players- including some who will play for Belgium in Qatar is nearly as good experience as Ugbo has playing 7 minutes a night when the game is already out of hand.

I don't think Larin is going to make a step to a better league, but you don't think Larin could score 10 goals a year if you gave him 90 minutes/game on a bad Ligue 1 side?

[PegCityCam]

 

[Obinna]

Pretty excited to see who gets called for the Bahrain match. Last chance saloon for a few guys, I imagine. I also wonder how many guys without a real shot at going to Qatar will get the call for the match. Surely there's going to be a few. For example, can Nelson sneak on to the WC team with a good camp, or is he making up the numbers with no real chance to push his way in? Same may apply to someone like Shaff or Brault-Guillard. 

Either way, really curious to see what that roster looks like.

[Bigandy]

@InglewoodJack Good point on the quality comparison. Its really splitting hairs but my point was that neither should be cut and if we were to cut ugbo, why not larin or vice versa (which reinforces your point of comparing the quality). As for Larin getting 10 goals in league 1, thats an interesting question. First it would assume hes good enough to go 90's in league 1 but lets say a team did play him 90 minutes for most of the season games. I am still not sure he would get 10 goals. 10 goals from one player is a lot and could mean the difference between relegation or mid table. Looking at players from last year, Dolberg, Aouar, Moses, Milik, Volland, Paqueta, Yilmaz, martins and di maria all did not get to 10 goals (neymar had 13, David had 15). Now not all are pure strikers but most of them play on teams that would create far more chances than a bad team in league 1. Larin also has only scored more than 7 goals in one season while playing in europe (Beiktas 2020-2021). I have a hard time putting larin in the same category as any of the guys mentioned above so i dont think Larin is scoring 10 goals in a season in ligue 1. 

[InglewoodJack]

23 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Pretty excited to see who gets called for the Bahrain match. Last chance saloon for a few guys, I imagine. I also wonder how many guys without a real shot at going to Qatar will get the call for the match. Surely there's going to be a few. For example, can Nelson sneak on to the WC team with a good camp, or is he making up the numbers with no real chance to push his way in? Same may apply to someone like Shaff or Brault-Guillard. 

Either way, really curious to see what that roster looks like.

I think for those guys, it's more for Gold Cup, but I'm also excited to see what Nelson or ZBG can do- the latter is a guy who really needs more playing time, in any form, club country, whatever, because any time he's on the pitch, good things seem to happen.

 

3 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

@InglewoodJack Good point on the quality comparison. Its really splitting hairs but my point was that neither should be cut and if we were to cut ugbo, why not larin or vice versa (which reinforces your point of comparing the quality). As for Larin getting 10 goals in league 1, thats an interesting question. First it would assume hes good enough to go 90's in league 1 but lets say a team did play him 90 minutes for most of the season games. I am still not sure he would get 10 goals. 10 goals from one player is a lot and could mean the difference between relegation or mid table. Looking at players from last year, Dolberg, Aouar, Moses, Milik, Volland, Paqueta, Yilmaz, martins and di maria all did not get to 10 goals (neymar had 13, David had 15). Now not all are pure strikers but most of them play on teams that would create far more chances than a bad team in league 1. Larin also has only scored more than 7 goals in one season while playing in europe (Beiktas 2020-2021). I have a hard time putting larin in the same category as any of the guys mentioned above so i dont think Larin is scoring 10 goals in a season in ligue 1. 

I think Larin is definitely good enough to go 90 in Ligue 1- I think Besiktas is better than many Ligue 1 teams, and he played well for them. I also rate Larin higher than Ugbo, a player whose 5 goals in 14 games last season was a big reason why Troyes staved off relegation.

 

The issue with Larin's situation is that Club Brugge had pretty much every player that plays Larin's position break out at the same time. Jutgla is a young Barca player who couldn't cut it there, now he's playing awesome. Olsen has been great, Lang is figuring out his, and they also signed Yaremchuk in August from Benfica- that wasn't expected and wasn't in the plan when Larin was signed. Not to mention, Larin has played pretty well when he has played- he's 3rd in goals per 90 on the team, first in xG, 2nd in shots on target per 90. Granted those numbers are influenced by the fact that he's only played one real game and has been relegated to garbage time for the most part, but Ugbo is also only playing garbage time at this point, and unlike Larin, hasn't shown much for Canada.

 

tl;dr, peak Ugbo can score 10 in France easy, and I think both peak Larin and current Larin are better than peak and current Ugbo.

[Bigandy]

I like larin but I think you are overhyping him a lot.  He has only ever scored more than 7 goals once in his european career. If it is not easy for him to score 10 in belguim and turkey (while playing on the top teams of that country), how would he easily do it in a better league while playing for a weaker team that create less chances. If you think he could easily get to 10 then i assume you think he could get between 10-15 goals. That would put him above neymar(13) based on last years goal scoring charts. 

There is also no way that current larin is better than peak ugbo. Peak ugbo scored 5 goals in half a season for a terrible team in a league that is higher than what larin has ever played in. Current larin has 185 minutes across 8 games in the Belgian league.

I agree that theres some quality competition against larin but one player ahead of him is yarmechuk who has only scored more than 10 goals in his career once with gent. If yarmechuk is above larin and cant do it consistently in a lesser league, what would make you think someone who is lower in the depth chart could easily score 10 goals in a better league on a team that creates fewer chances? 

[narduch]

10 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I like larin but I think you are overhyping him a lot.  He has only ever scored more than 7 goals once in his european career. If it is not easy for him to score 10 in belguim and turkey (while playing on the top teams of that country), how would he easily do it in a better league while playing for a weaker team that create less chances. If you think he could easily get to 10 then i assume you think he could get between 10-15 goals. That would put him above neymar(13) based on last years goal scoring charts. 

There is also no way that current larin is better than peak ugbo. Peak ugbo scored 5 goals in half a season for a terrible team in a league that is higher than what larin has ever played in. Current larin has 185 minutes across 8 games in the Belgian league.

I agree that theres some quality competition against larin but one player ahead of him is yarmechuk who has only scored more than 10 goals in his career once with gent. If yarmechuk is above larin and cant do it consistently in a lesser league, what would make you think someone who is lower in the depth chart could easily score 10 goals in a better league on a team that creates fewer chances? 

Peak Ugbo was probably 2 seasons ago for Cercle Brugge. 

My guess is if Herdman decides Larin isn't doing enough to start neither of them start

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

19 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I like larin but I think you are overhyping him a lot.  He has only ever scored more than 7 goals once in his european career. If it is not easy for him to score 10 in belguim and turkey (while playing on the top teams of that country), how would he easily do it in a better league while playing for a weaker team that create less chances. If you think he could easily get to 10 then i assume you think he could get between 10-15 goals. That would put him above neymar(13) based on last years goal scoring charts. 

There is also no way that current larin is better than peak ugbo. Peak ugbo scored 5 goals in half a season for a terrible team in a league that is higher than what larin has ever played in. Current larin has 185 minutes across 8 games in the Belgian league.

I agree that theres some quality competition against larin but one player ahead of him is yarmechuk who has only scored more than 10 goals in his career once with gent. If yarmechuk is above larin and cant do it consistently in a lesser league, what would make you think someone who is lower in the depth chart could easily score 10 goals in a better league on a team that creates fewer chances? 

You gotta dance with the one that brought ya. 

[Bigandy]

I dont think we are discussing who starts for Canada - larin vs ugbo.  I think the question we are talking about is if larin has the ability to score 10 goals in ligue 1. I personally don't think Larin has the quality to make a jump to a top 5 league and score 10 goals in it.  I would love to be proven wrong but I think he has found his level in the 6th-10th best leagues. 

As for canada, I would be shocked if ugbo is above larin in the Canadian depth chart and rightfully so as ugbo hasnt preformed nearly to the same level as larin for CMNT. 

[lamptern]

On 10/26/2022 at 10:45 AM, PegCityCam said:

Debate settled. TSN said so.

 

2022 FIFA World Cup: TSN - A mediocre broadcaster 

While 50 countries in Africa could enjoy 64 games LIVE in 4K from Showmax Pro, TSN could be the only one who doesn’t offer 4K signals to the subscribers in G7 country.

[InglewoodJack]

29 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I like larin but I think you are overhyping him a lot.  He has only ever scored more than 7 goals once in his european career. If it is not easy for him to score 10 in belguim and turkey (while playing on the top teams of that country), how would he easily do it in a better league while playing for a weaker team that create less chances. If you think he could easily get to 10 then i assume you think he could get between 10-15 goals. That would put him above neymar(13) based on last years goal scoring charts. 

There is also no way that current larin is better than peak ugbo. Peak ugbo scored 5 goals in half a season for a terrible team in a league that is higher than what larin has ever played in. Current larin has 185 minutes across 8 games in the Belgian league.

I agree that theres some quality competition against larin but one player ahead of him is yarmechuk who has only scored more than 10 goals in his career once with gent. If yarmechuk is above larin and cant do it consistently in a lesser league, what would make you think someone who is lower in the depth chart could easily score 10 goals in a better league on a team that creates fewer chances? 

I don't think you're giving enough credit to Turkey, and a little too much credit to Ligue 1. Yes, France has a better league on aggregate, but Larin played for a much better team in Besiktas. You are saying he has only scored more than 7 goals in a single european season, but that year he scored 19 goals, which is pretty comparable to "peak Ugbo" ie 16 goals in Belgium.

Neymar shares his goals with Mbappe, Messi, and the rest of their all star team. Jonathan David has 1 less goal than Kylian Mbappe, but no one is going to argue that David is at Mbappe's level, so if a hypothetical Cyle Larin came close to Neymar's goal total, I don't think that makes them comparable. It just means that Cyle Larin plays for a team that depends on him for goals, Neymar plays with two of the best goal scorers of this generation. 

With Yaremchuk, that cutoff number is also misleading. He scored 17 goals his last season in Belgium.  He scored 10 before that, 8 before that, 9 before that. He scored 3 champions league goals with Benfica last year. Club Brugge paid 17.5M euros for him. Obviously they're going to play him, Larin came to them on a free transfer got iced out of the lineup through no fault of his own- the guys in front of him are playing out of their minds. Jutgla is probably going to end up back in Spain or England in the next few years. 

Have you watched Larin at Club Brugge? He's played well when given time. If he was in a similar situation to JD at Lille ie he needs to score every goal, then yeah, he hits 10. 

There's more than just looking at the overall quality of the league and defining a player's quality because of it. Pretty sure Genk explicitly didn't want Ugbo back- he had 3 goals in 18 games for Genk last year which isn't far off from what Larin is scoring for Brugge averaging like 7.5 minutes/game. 

[red card]

On Canada twitter at least, soccer is almost on par with hockey for the 1 year ending Oct 16th.

The top soccer hashtag was CANMNT focused. Davies was one of the top 5 people.

 

https://twitter.com/FirstNameConor/status/1585642197034016769

 

[Gian-Luca]

TSN had a WC power rankings show tonight that I missed as I didn’t know about it until I saw clips on TSN’s website tonight. They rank Canada 24th. It wasn’t just the panel of Caldwell, Kilbane and De Guzman who did the rankings (as they all ranked Canada higher), but according to Wileman “other experts” on TSN’s staff. So I am assuming that means Westhead, Jeff O’Neill, Bob McKenzie, Mike Johnson, Cheryl Pounder, and Darren Dredger. 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Gian-Luca

[Stoppage Time]

9 hours ago, PegCityCam said:

 

Thanks, Peter.

Here is my list for Qatar. One person suggested that Didc could be there, and Henry likely will be. Regardless, I wonder for how many of these I will be correct.

The CPL guys are partly warranted and partly a public relations move to create CPL excitement. Do any of these guys belong in this practice squad?

Keepers (3) Crepeau, St Clair, plus one of Pantemis, Breza or Hasal

Defenders (8)  Cornelius, Miller, Waterman, Johnston, Laryea, Edwards, Brault-Guillard, Marshal-Rutty

Midfield (6)  Kaye, Kone, Osorio, Piette, M. Choiniere, Nelson

Forwards (8) Akinola, Tabla, Cavallini, O. de Rosario, Rea, Pacius, Shaffelburg, Russel-Rowe.