General Discussion on CMNT

[Kent]

On 9/14/2022 at 12:56 PM, Corazon said:

Valid points.  And I wanted all of those players included but I was just saying there is room for more.  But if you can find me a Nation that has less player pool from the last 12 months, I'd be shocked.  Either way, we are the only aspiring CONCACAF soccer nation doing the minimum.

Canada - 36 players called in past 12 months

Mexico - 55 players called in the past 12 months

Costa Rica - 59 players called in the past 12 months

USA - 61 players called in the past 12 months

El Salvador - 71 players called in the past 12 months

Honduras - 83 players called in the past 12 months

Jamaica - 86 players called in the past 12 months

So Mexico is the closest country to us (from final CONCACAF qualifying round) with 19 more players called in the past 12 months compared to Canada.  I'm not saying that we aren't introducing young talented players.  I'm saying we could be doing more.  Our fellow CONCACAF nations are keeping a pool of players double what Canada is.  Yes, some of those countries are able to play more friendlies than us.  Yes, we won the group with our small player pool.  I just don't see how a few additional players at camp will do us more harm than good.  

So are we logistically handicapped?  In comparison to all other top CONCACAF programs?  As @Shwaymentioned, we logistically are able to include Campagna as a training player every Canada camp.  We are able to call in and pay for several injured Canadian regulars to attend camp even if they're not playing or training.

 

I'm not sure what the takeaway from your research should be. Your ranking by number of players used is very close to the ranking the teams ended up in the Oct. Really Jamaica is the only team that overperformed based on this metric. Here is the order based on number of players called that you listed, and I'll put their Octagonal ranking next to them in brackets.

Canada (1)
Mexico (2)
Costa Rica (4)
USA (3)
El Salvador (7)
Honduras (8)
Jamaica (6)

Notes: You didn't have Panama in your list, they finished 5th in the Octagonal. Costa Rica and USA are flipped, but they were actually level on points in the Octagonal (like Canada and Mexico) and very close in number of players called as well.

So yeah, I don't think you've found a compelling data point on something Canada could have done to improve. If anything you could be highlighting one of the problems (or perhaps a symptom) with the approach of the teams that failed to qualify.

[Corazon]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

I'm not sure what the takeaway from your research should be. Your ranking by number of players used is very close to the ranking the teams ended up in the Oct. Really Jamaica is the only team that overperformed based on this metric. Here is the order based on number of players called that you listed, and I'll put their Octagonal ranking next to them in brackets.

Canada (1)
Mexico (2)
Costa Rica (4)
USA (3)
El Salvador (7)
Honduras (8)
Jamaica (6)

Notes: You didn't have Panama in your list, they finished 5th in the Octagonal. Costa Rica and USA are flipped, but they were actually level on points in the Octagonal (like Canada and Mexico) and very close in number of players called as well.

So yeah, I don't think you've found a compelling data point on something Canada could have done to improve. If anything you could be highlighting one of the problems (or perhaps a symptom) with the approach of the teams that failed to 

 

As per the previous posts in the conversation, this post was just a comparison of the other top CONCACAF nations.

The post had nothing to do with the correlation between number of players being called and how they did in qualifying. Half of those players called by other nations were for nations league and/or friendlies.
The point was just that I think we should be calling more players and keeping a larger player pool.  And I just compared our “12 month” player pool to other teams player pool.  I was not saying that an expanded player pool would make us better or worse.

I did forget Panama but I’ll go an add them as well.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Corazon

[Kent]

I know you weren't correlating it with results. I was just pointing out that you were speaking as if calling more players is better, just because it is, when the results of the teams seem to indicate the opposite at least in the immediate term.

[Unnamed Trialist]

14 minutes ago, Kent said:

I know you weren't correlating it with results. I was just pointing out that you were speaking as if calling more players is better, just because it is, when the results of the teams seem to indicate the opposite at least in the immediate term.

You could argue that if you are doing well, you stick with who you are already calling. So the shorter initial call-ups stay short. 

While if you are not doing well, or even find yourself eliminated or far back in the table early on, you try to shake things up and call in other guys. 

It all depends on what you imagine the threshhold to be: Mexico may start to call in new faces because they draw Canada in Azteca or lose key GC and Nations League finals to the US, while never being really threatened to miss the WC, while El Salvador may do it because after a few games of losses they figure they might as well start rebuilding. 

Then there is the other scenario, where you are so far ahead in the table that you can experiment. In our case, in the last window all our rivals were below us in rankings (CR ended up passing us however), so the strict analysis here doesn't apply. But in general, if we'd beaten CR, we might have played less familiar faces those last two matches.

[Kent]

46 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You could argue that if you are doing well, you stick with who you are already calling. So the shorter initial call-ups stay short. 

While if you are not doing well, or even find yourself eliminated or far back in the table early on, you try to shake things up and call in other guys. 

It all depends on what you imagine the threshhold to be: Mexico may start to call in new faces because they draw Canada in Azteca or lose key GC and Nations League finals to the US, while never being really threatened to miss the WC, while El Salvador may do it because after a few games of losses they figure they might as well start rebuilding. 

Then there is the other scenario, where you are so far ahead in the table that you can experiment. In our case, in the last window all our rivals were below us in rankings (CR ended up passing us however), so the strict analysis here doesn't apply. But in general, if we'd beaten CR, we might have played less familiar faces those last two matches.

Another factor (not sure if it was the case this time around for any teams) could be that injuries typically lead to more players called and worse results.

[narduch]

Teams like Mexico and El Salvador also play a lot of friendlies on non-FIFA dates.

[InglewoodJack]

Herdman presser announced for 12:30 ET/9:30 PT, so I would expect the roster to drop in the next hour or two.

[Bison44]

Cue the manic posts about who or who isnt posting clues on their social media.  If Enin posts he "likes" poutine is that code for he is getting a call up??  

[Sal333]

19 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Cue the manic posts about who or who isnt posting clues on their social media.  If Enin posts he "likes" poutine is that code for he is getting a call up??  

Or maybe he just misspelled Putin and has been selected for the Russian NT.

[toontownman]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

Herdman presser announced for 12:30 ET/9:30 PT, so I would expect the roster to drop in the next hour or two.

Probably drop at 12 ET in that case but wouldn't put it past the CSA doing the press conference without releasing it!

[Sal333]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

Herdman presser announced for 12:30 ET/9:30 PT, so I would expect the roster to drop in the next hour or two.

I'm expecting Herdman to announce his resignation. He will admit that Unnamed Trialist is right about him and he can't go on as a phoney. 

[VinceA]

Round 2 lmao

[Bison44]

Poor kid...dont leave him hanging Herdman!!!  The poor guy fills for an hour waiting, and waiting..........

[BearcatSA]

5 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Poor kid...dont leave him hanging Herdman!!!  The poor guy fills for an hour waiting, and waiting..........

Like Becks waiting to view the Queen's coffin.

[InglewoodJack]

The presser is gonna be delayed until later today, won’t it.

[InglewoodJack]

 

[EJsens1]

Finally 

Edited September 16, 2022 by EJsens1

[frmr]

Brym likely the last minute replacement for Jebbison.

[toontownman]

No big shocks or pleasant surprises. nice to see koleosho obviously. Likewise Theo, Waterman and Cornelius back. Central mid is weak but Kone will get another shot.

[Corazon]

Glad to see Kone & Corbeanu back and also extremely happy to see Koleosho and Waterman inclusions.

But pretty standard roster other than that.

[EJsens1]

No Henry. Good to see Tajon will be there 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

2 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

 

Given everything,basically what I would like to see, including the number.

[InglewoodJack]

Only big surprise for me is Brym, but he could've been a last minute swap for Jebbison, but we could've called up more guys, so maybe he was always part of the lineup. Also had a sneaking feeling Corbeanu would've gotten left out for some reason, glad that both him and Kone are back in.

[maplebanana]

Davies listed as a defender?

[pod818]

No Holmes..boo