General Discussion on CMNT

[costarg]

4 hours ago, Kadenge said:

So JH has used a 3-5-2, 4-4-2 and a 3-4-3. Although the 3-5-2 seems to be the most popular set up on this board, at the WC do we want to see Davies and Tajon at WB in a 3-5-2 system where they will probably be spending more time defending vs attacking? For me I would rather have Adekugbe and Johnston/Laryea as wide defenders with Tajon and Davies more advanced where they can use their speed and 1v1 skill in attack or simply pressure the opposition to keep their wide defenders/mids back. Playing with 2 strikers seems like a luxury we could afford during WCQ but I think we will get burnt at Qatar.

oops

Edited July 20, 2022 by costarg

[costarg]

4 hours ago, Kadenge said:

So JH has used a 3-5-2, 4-4-2 and a 3-4-3. Although the 3-5-2 seems to be the most popular set up on this board, at the WC do we want to see Davies and Tajon at WB in a 3-5-2 system where they will probably be spending more time defending vs attacking? For me I would rather have Adekugbe and Johnston/Laryea as wide defenders with Tajon and Davies more advanced where they can use their speed and 1v1 skill in attack or simply pressure the opposition to keep their wide defenders/mids back. Playing with 2 strikers seems like a luxury we could afford during WCQ but I think we will get burnt at Qatar.

no idea why it posted 4 times!  sorry.

Edited July 20, 2022 by costarg

[costarg]

3 hours ago, Kadenge said:

So JH has used a 3-5-2, 4-4-2 and a 3-4-3. Although the 3-5-2 seems to be the most popular set up on this board, at the WC do we want to see Davies and Tajon at WB in a 3-5-2 system where they will probably be spending more time defending vs attacking? For me I would rather have Adekugbe and Johnston/Laryea as wide defenders with Tajon and Davies more advanced where they can use their speed and 1v1 skill in attack or simply pressure the opposition to keep their wide defenders/mids back. Playing with 2 strikers seems like a luxury we could afford during WCQ but I think we will get burnt at Qatar.

Agreed.  It's gotta be the 4-5-1 (which looks a lot like a 4-3-3 with Davies and Tajon's speed at the wings when attacking/counter-attacking) at the WC.  I don't see how we can play anything else and take ourselves seriously at this level. 

[costarg]

4 hours ago, Kadenge said:

So JH has used a 3-5-2, 4-4-2 and a 3-4-3. Although the 3-5-2 seems to be the most popular set up on this board, at the WC do we want to see Davies and Tajon at WB in a 3-5-2 system where they will probably be spending more time defending vs attacking? For me I would rather have Adekugbe and Johnston/Laryea as wide defenders with Tajon and Davies more advanced where they can use their speed and 1v1 skill in attack or simply pressure the opposition to keep their wide defenders/mids back. Playing with 2 strikers seems like a luxury we could afford during WCQ but I think we will get burnt at Qatar.

Agreed.  It's gotta be the 4-5-1 (which looks a lot like a 4-3-3 with Davies and Tajon's speed at the wings when attacking/counter-attacking) at the WC.  I don't see how we can play anything else and take ourselves seriously at this level. 

[narduch]

The newest Footy Prime interviews Victor Montagliani

[TOcanadafan]

The 2 September friendlies should provide a glimpse of what we’ll see.  
I have a feeling we’ll play a lot like we did against the US when we play Belgium… 4-4-2 or 5-4-1 defend for your life and counter for long stretches.
Croatia will be a bit more interesting as they can be had down their wings, which is our strength, so the 4-5-1 should work.

In both games, I think there will be some chance to show something different (e.g. we could gamble that Belgium will start slow out of the gate), which is where Herdman and our team really excel - being able to switch formation on command with little confusion. 

[Kadenge]

How the heck are we going to contain KDeB. Did anyone see the Man City v Club America game yesterday. The man is unreal!

[costarg]

1 hour ago, Kadenge said:

How the heck are we going to contain KDeB. Did anyone see the Man City v Club America game yesterday. The man is unreal!

That's what i'm talking about!  Hence the need for a 5 man midfield with 4 on the backline.  Anything less and we might as well just roll out the red carpet to the man.  Hardly anyone in CANMNT has ever faced that level of skill and talent.

[sebdeserio]

4 hours ago, costarg said:

That's what i'm talking about!  Hence the need for a 5 man midfield with 4 on the backline.  Anything less and we might as well just roll out the red carpet to the man.  Hardly anyone in CANMNT has ever faced that level of skill and talent.

Davies, David, Borjan, Hutchinson, Hoilett, and by then probably Eustaquio Tajon and Larin. Not a full 11 but still not bad.

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 minutes ago, sebdeserio said:

Davies, David, Borjan, Hutchinson, Hoilett, and by then probably Eustaquio Tajon and Larin. Not a full 11 but still not bad.

I know... It's silly sometimes, KdB has a good friendly match and the paradigm changes? 

Wouldn't Modric be more of a problem since he's won more, playmakes more, runs things, plays for a better club and has a greater role for his nation in comparison? 

[costarg]

1 hour ago, sebdeserio said:

Davies, David, Borjan, Hutchinson, Hoilett, and by then probably Eustaquio Tajon and Larin. Not a full 11 but still not bad.

You list 2 starters, Hutch and Hoilett will most likely be on the bench, and a keeper.  I don't see Stache, Tajon or Larin playing vs someone at DeBruynes level in the next couple of months.  I stand by my comment.  

[narduch]

24 minutes ago, costarg said:

You list 2 starters, Hutch and Hoilett will most likely be on the bench, and a keeper.  I don't see Stache, Tajon or Larin playing vs someone at DeBruynes level in the next couple of months.  I stand by my comment.  

Eustaqiuo, Larin and Buchanan will have 6 Champions League games. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

36 minutes ago, costarg said:

You list 2 starters, Hutch and Hoilett will most likely be on the bench, and a keeper.  I don't see Stache, Tajon or Larin playing vs someone at DeBruynes level in the next couple of months.  I stand by my comment.  

I realise he's a god to some here, but anyways: the point is that Man City or Real Madrid are quite a bit better than Belgium or Croatia. So these top players are in premium systems and shine because of it. 

For me the only NT that rivals the quality of the clubs of its best players is France, just saying. 

Belgium as a NT is still excellent, but even KdB is not as good for them as he is for his club. With Modric, you could argue that premium Croatia he was their premium player. But not any more, his club and his club performance excels Croatia.

While Canada is better than any of the club teams of our players, excepting Bayern and Porto.

So: when our players put on the Canada shirt, they are on a better team than most of their clubs, while for de Bruyne it is not the case. We come up quite a bit, he shifts down a little bit, the match-up evens up. Voilà.

Edited July 21, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[costarg]

13 minutes ago, narduch said:

Eustaqiuo, Larin and Buchanan will have 6 Champions League games. 

Dude, you're making my point stronger.  Tajon, Larin, David, Davies and Hoilett won't be the ones tasked with stopping DeBruyne and Modric.  We know our talent is on the wings and up-top, exactly where DeBruyne and Modric are not.

Playing in Champions League does not equate playing vs DeBruyne or Modric.  They're in the upper echelon, they're masters at slicing through midfields and defenses. 

I'll say it again, no one in our backline and hardly anyone at midfield has faced that kind of talent.  Its very different to playing vs one good attacker (ie: Lewandowski, Mbappe or Neymar).

And even if CB or Porto draw them in the first round, one game in the next few months doesn't mean CANMNT suddenly has the knowledge and experience to compete with Belgium and Croatia in the midfield.

[costarg]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I know... It's silly sometimes, KdB has a good friendly match and the paradigm changes? 

Come on, keep it real, this has nothing to do with the friendly.  You know better than that.  I made the point of Modric and Debruyne immediately after the draw, has nothing to do with the friendly.  You can say you're not a fan of DeBruyne, but go dismissing his work and accomplishments.  He elevates everyone around him.

[InglewoodJack]

Just point a million lasers at him from the crowd who cares. Fuck it we ball 

[Aird25]

Just get Sammy Piette to man mark KdB and kick lumps out of him for 60 minutes.

[PastPros]

4 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Just get Sammy Piette to man mark KdB and kick lumps out of him for 60 minutes.

Canadian soccer equivalent of Esa Tikkanen.

[Unnamed Trialist]

17 minutes ago, costarg said:

Come on, keep it real, this has nothing to do with the friendly.  You know better than that.  I made the point of Modric and Debruyne immediately after the draw, has nothing to do with the friendly.  You can say you're not a fan of DeBruyne, but go dismissing his work and accomplishments.  He elevates everyone around him.

Ok, I'll be real. And I'll agree, block de Bruyne and Modric, neutralise Lukaku, that takes us a long way to possible success. 

I would also agree that we need to not only have players to stop these creative mids, but a system. Our defense, which is on paper our weakest line, handled all strikers we saw; we did not have a single match where we were being terrorised by a striker. So then we have to extend that to the midfield, so I do agree with you. I hate it when the mids drop back into the back line, which happens with half of MLS teams, instead of going out to challenge and bite the rival in the final third wherever they are proposing to create. I love a team that go meet a superior rival effectively; but you have to coordinate it, because if just one does it it fails. So to be fair: how do we coordinate a midfield to challenge the rival midfield with real stars who can slice through most lesser rivals?

Still, I am more worried about the total machines we may be facing. We already saw that we could handle Mexico fairly well, and the US, even when not having possession. And sure, none of those players were at the level of De Bruyne, but there were many top flight players from big 4 leagues. Pulisic can absolutely shine for the States but he didn't against us. 

The other thing is that the way we are set up, we have scoring power, and speed to use it. We don't have to create a lot out of the middle to get into the attacking third and get shots. It'd be dumb to renounce that. We had the fitness to press most rivals up high, at least early in matches. The Yanks say we parked the bus in Hamilton, but we didn't: look at the match until the goal, look where our guys were on the first goal. 

I suspect Herdman will want to keep the attack intact and try to put the rival onto a back foot. Hold down their attacking backs and mids, make them wary of marking us. That, to be true, will not involve either de Bruyne or Modric, so our attack will not tie either down. 

All this suggests we may want to sacrifice the attacking virtues of a Laryea or Adekugbe, so they can pinch in an help block out the rival's attacking lanes and not get caught up. I suspect we might split ourselves a bit. But if we reduce the wing play of the backs, then we could, as you perhaps and others are suggesting, try a double pivot DM duo to deal with what you are talking about.

Edited July 21, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[costarg]

43 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Ok, I'll be real. And I'll agree, block de Bruyne and Modric, neutralise Lukaku, that takes us a long way to possible success. 

I would also agree that we need to not only have players to stop these creative mids, but a system. Our defense, which is on paper our weakest line, handled all strikers we saw; we did not have a single match where we were being terrorised by a striker. So then we have to extend that to the midfield, so I do agree with you. I hate it when the mids drop back into the back line, which happens with half of MLS teams, instead of going out to challenge and bite the rival in the final third wherever they are proposing to create. I love a team that go meet a superior rival effectively; but you have to coordinate it, because if just one does it it fails. So to be fair: how do we coordinate a midfield to challenge the rival midfield with real stars who can slice through most lesser rivals?

Still, I am more worried about the total machines we may be facing. We already saw that we could handle Mexico fairly well, and the US, even when not having possession. And sure, none of those players were at the level of De Bruyne, but there were many top flight players from big 4 leagues. Pulisic can absolutely shine for the States but he didn't against us. 

The other thing is that the way we are set up, we have scoring power, and speed to use it. We don't have to create a lot out of the middle to get into the attacking third and get shots. It'd be dumb to renounce that. We had the fitness to press most rivals up high, at least early in matches. The Yanks say we parked the bus in Hamilton, but we didn't: look at the match until the goal, look where our guys were on the first goal. 

I suspect Herdman will want to keep the attack intact and try to put the rival onto a back foot. Hold down their attacking backs and mids, make them wary of marking us. That, to be true, will not involve either de Bruyne or Modric, so our attack will not tie either down. 

All this suggests we may want to sacrifice the attacking virtues of a Laryea or Adekugbe, so they can pinch in an help block out the rival's attacking lanes and not get caught up. I suspect we might split ourselves a bit. But if we reduce the wing play of the backs, then we could, as you perhaps and others are suggesting, try a double pivot DM duo to deal with what you are talking about.

Love it. 

I'm just worried about the "I suspect Herdman will want to keep the attack intact and try to put the rival onto a back foot" I hope we don't keep banging our head on the wall with the David/Larin combo.

.............................David

Davies / Piette / Osorio / Stache / Tajon

Adekugbe / Kennedy / Vitoria / Johnston

Edited July 21, 2022 by costarg

[TOcanadafan]

6 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Belgium as a NT is still excellent, but even KdB is not as good for them as he is for his club. With Modric, you could argue that premium Croatia he was their premium player. But not any more, his club and his club performance excels Croatia.

This is a good point… these stars are machines when they play for their club teams, but don’t have the same familiarity with systems and teammates in their NTs.  It’s more often a random individual piece of brilliance (which KdB & Modric are capable of) that we see.  It’s why you see so many closer scores in the WC and even Qualifiers than you’d expect when comparing teams man for man.

[Free kick]

Eden Hazard has been a finalist for Ballon D'Or just as often (if not more often) than Kevin DeBruyne.   And what about Thibault Courtois?  as I mentioned before, the biggest obstacle for Canada (in My opinion) is the Belgian GK.   

 

Edited July 22, 2022 by Free kick

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, Free kick said:

Eden Hazard has been a finalist for Ballon D'Or just as often (if not more often) than Kevin DeBruyne.   And what about Thibault Courtois?  as I mentioned before, the biggest obstacle for Canada (in My opinion) is the Belgian GK.   

 

Hazard is in serious decadence, he hasn't been a key player for Real Madrid for years. 

Courtois, agreed, helluva a keeper. Can get scored on for Madrid because they defend rather badly. Even in the CL final they did not defend well, Liverpool did not finish great and Courtois was MOTM.

In contrast, if we were to get out of our group, I think Spain could be accessible because Spain keeping is not top notch, Luis Enrique plays these middle class mid-level keepers.

[red card]

Argentine beer company believes Messi will be lifting the trophy in December because Canada is back.

And the first Qatar focused World Cup ad featuring Canada is done by a foreign firm. 

 

[Kadenge]

9 minutes ago, red card said:

Argentine beer company believes Messi will be lifting the trophy in December because Canada is back.

And the first Qatar focused World Cup ad featuring Canada is done by a foreign firm. 

 

TSN had an impressive CMNT WC ad yesterday which may have been shown previously..