General Discussion on CMNT

[Jith12]

10 minutes ago, canta15 said:

Panamanian sub does the CONCACAF thing to do in the dying moments

 

Was that a ball boy or a Panama sub? CONCACAFiest thing I've ever seen (apart from time wasting in the corner during a friendly. *cough, cough El Salvador*).

Edited October 11, 2017 by Jith12

[Keegan]

I know it's hard to fathom for most but sometimes it's as simple as the team out there didn't get it done.

Did Canada failing at the 2006 Olympics mean we had a national hockey problem? No. We didn't call the best player in the world  because he was 18 and called a guy like Bryan McCabe because he played for Toronto. 

There aren't players being left off USA and Canada rosters who are a cut above. Remember after 2012 when we tried to flip our team? When we were naive enough to think there were guys just waiting in the wings to take over for JDG, de Rosario and Hutchinson?  Well, we had the worst year in our history scoring one goal and losing to Mauritania. 

Is the USA going to replace Bradley with Trapp? No, that would be knee jerk and stupid. They are developing players better than ever and their domestic league is growing.  The mix wasn't right and you reorganize and move on. You don't panic because mouth pieces like Lalas and Twellman are all emotional.  It was bound to happen eventually.. all the teams in the region are improving and the ball is round. 

[ted]

12 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

Although now it looks like Panama qualified for the World Cup by scoring a goal which didn't even come close to crossing the goal-line,

Yep, the replays clearly show it never came close to crossing the line. They also show that a penalty should have been awarded to the Panamanians so not that big a difference really.

[Dub Narcotic]

Yes, thank you @Keegan. Every year MLS, the USSF and CSA do more to improve internal development but there aren't buckets of money being thrown at any domestic soccer initiative like Germany has. Every MLS team has free academies, they've moved USSDA down to U14, added futsal, the French federation coaching exchange program and etc...; here in Canada we have L10, PLSQ and maybe the CPL. Of course things can get a lot better but there's been lots of incremental progress in an environment where there aren't huge revenue streams to pave the way to easy change.

Variance happens, teams get old, sometimes you don't qualify even when you have lots of quality. Panama, Honduras, Costa Rica and even Mexico have a lot of MLS players and they're all moving on.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Jith12 said:

Was that a ball boy or a Panama sub? CONCACAFiest thing I've ever seen (apart from time wasting in the corner during a friendly. *cough, cough El Salvador*).

It was the sub. The tweet's caption was wrong

[Obinna]

MLS is helping the big 3 Central American nations, along with Jamaica and T&T. 

It is economics. Good players in poor countries can make more in the USA (or Canada). At the same time, those players are great value for MLS teams because they are cheap. It's a win for the clubs, a win for those players, and a loss for USA soccer. They should consider reducing the limit on international players.

[Gian-Luca]

12 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

I didn't see the T&T goals yet but I thought he looked really poor on that Reyna goal in the Whitecaps game a few weeks back, fwiw.  I'd be curious to know how he'd been at club level since then.

Well you only need to look at the standings to get a hint at what he has been like. Not that Colorado's position at the bottom of the league is all Howard's fault but even so if he's that good why is he playing for an almost-last-place team? Given that Arena was taking shots at the European "hotshot" countries that they would find it difficult to qualify in Concacaf, some of those countries would probably ask him when the last time one of those hotshot countries attempted to qualify with a keeper on a last or near-last place team in their country's top division? I am struggling to think of any examples of a successful qualification for one of those "hotshot" teams where the keeper they have used is on a club that is in de facto relegation territory.

This, IMO, is the biggest mistake Arena made, causing him at least two games (I'd put the game in US against Costa Rica in the same bracket - first goal should have been stopped).

[SpecialK]

6 hours ago, Keegan said:

There aren't players being left off USA and Canada rosters who are a cut above. Remember after 2012 when we tried to flip our team? When we were naive enough to think there were guys just waiting in the wings to take over for JDG, de Rosario and Hutchinson?  Well, we had the worst year in our history scoring one goal and losing to Mauritania. 

I don't know much about USA players, but for Canada after that lost to El  Salvador I'm questioning that. We all know who are Canada's top guys are and that's not changing any time soon. But guys that are on the fence between starting and sub, that group of players I'm questioning. There are guys out in Europe and South America that haven't been call or they haven't been given a fair shot, so we don't know where they stand. 

Yes it's one game but I think it's a  Conversation that needs to be had and things need to be questioned. Does Canada's men's national team  rely on North American leagues too much? .  Are we ignoring our European talent?  Should we give  others who haven't been called them and chance ? Is Canada picking the right North American players? Are the Canadian North American club players overrated and others are under? . Why are USL guys starting for the national team ? 

I don't know the answer but I'm putting the questions

 

Edited October 11, 2017 by SpecialK

[aloyol]

57 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Well you only need to look at the standings to get a hint at what he has been like. Not that Colorado's position at the bottom of the league is all Howard's fault but even so if he's that good why is he playing for an almost-last-place team? Given that Arena was taking shots at the European "hotshot" countries that they would find it difficult to qualify in Concacaf, some of those countries would probably ask him when the last time one of those hotshot countries attempted to qualify with a keeper on a last or near-last place team in their country's top division? I am struggling to think of any examples of a successful qualification for one of those "hotshot" teams where the keeper they have used is on a club that is in de facto relegation territory.

This, IMO, is the biggest mistake Arena made, causing him at least two games (I'd put the game in US against Costa Rica in the same bracket - first goal should have been stopped).

Italy did qualify for the 2008 Euro starting, for half of the qualifying, a Serie B goalkeeper. ?

[Ruud]

Great postings - particularly about the debate around MLS improving US soccer.  MLS is in the business of improving revenues, not the quality of US soccer players.  However, the question must be asked if MLS is paying enough money to keep some of the better players AWAY from Europe.  

Also, everyone forgets that while US and Canadian soccer improves, so does soccer everywhere else.  And money isn't the answer.  In fact, many people in the US complain about pay-to-play meaning white middle class americans are dominating soccer leagues....

More money isn't going to resolve that situation...

[Grizzly]

1 hour ago, Gian-Luca said:

Well you only need to look at the standings to get a hint at what he has been like. Not that Colorado's position at the bottom of the league is all Howard's fault but even so if he's that good why is he playing for an almost-last-place team? Given that Arena was taking shots at the European "hotshot" countries that they would find it difficult to qualify in Concacaf, some of those countries would probably ask him when the last time one of those hotshot countries attempted to qualify with a keeper on a last or near-last place team in their country's top division? I am struggling to think of any examples of a successful qualification for one of those "hotshot" teams where the keeper they have used is on a club that is in de facto relegation territory.

This, IMO, is the biggest mistake Arena made, causing him at least two games (I'd put the game in US against Costa Rica in the same bracket - first goal should have been stopped).

Remember when some people here were calling for the CSA to hire Arena or Klinsmann? Both would have been a mistake in particular Klinsmann, who made one good move as Germany's manager, hiring a better and more experience coach, Joachim Low as his assistant. 

[SpecialK]

32 minutes ago, Grizzly said:

Remember when some people here were calling for the CSA to hire Arena or Klinsmann? Both would have been a mistake in particular Klinsmann, who made one good move as Germany's manager, hiring a better and more experience coach, Joachim Low as his assistant. 

Did Jürgen Klinsmann make some mistakes sure but the guy's record with the US team is pretty good 47 games 28 Wins 6 D 13 L. Winning some huge games against Italy and Mexico in Mexico for the first time. Won the gold cup in 2013, took the us team to round of 16 in 2014, surviving the "group of death. Also he changed US soccer policy on scouting duel nationals that brought in some talented players.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/america-at-large-the-immigrant-star-earning-his-stripes-1.3152415 pretty good article to read. 

" During the Jurgen Klinsmann era, recruiting players of dual nationality became a cornerstone of USSF policy as he sought, in particular, to scout the Bundesliga for individuals born to American servicemen or women who’d served in Germany. It wasn’t to everybody’s liking and hardly reflected well on the quality coming through in a nation of more than three million youth players. But, by bringing on board the likes of Julian Green, John Brooks and Jermaine Jones, whom he regarded as superior to those grown at home, Klinsmann was simply exploiting qualification rules that have served so many nations so well."

The USA hires in him in 2011, Canada's manager was Stephen Hart an  amateur. 

 

Edited October 11, 2017 by SpecialK

[Keegan]

Edit: somehow reposted my previous post

Edited October 11, 2017 by Keegan

[Big_M]

The same amateur who took TT to two gold cup quarter finals and hexagonal

[SpecialK]

3 minutes ago, Big_M said:

The same amateur who took TT to two gold cup quarter finals and hexagonal

The same amateur who gets fired after only 3 years at the helm of TT. The same Amateur who doesn't have a job right now. The same amateur who guided Canada to a 8-1 loss. Give me a break ! Amateur coaches should NOT be coaching National Teams! 

 

[Big_M]

only 3 years at the helm of TT

We'll leave it there..how many coaches coached that national team for three years

[matty]

3 hours ago, Obinna said:

MLS is helping the big 3 Central American nations, along with Jamaica and T&T. 

It is economics. Good players in poor countries can make more in the USA (or Canada). At the same time, those players are great value for MLS teams because they are cheap. It's a win for the clubs, a win for those players, and a loss for USA soccer. They should consider reducing the limit on international players.

Roster rules!

[Blackdude]

4 hours ago, Keegan said:

I know it's hard to fathom for most but sometimes it's as simple as the team out there didn't get it done.

Did Canada failing at the 2006 Olympics mean we had a national hockey problem? No. We didn't call the best player in the world  because he was 18 and called a guy like Bryan McCabe because he played for Toronto. 

There aren't players being left off USA and Canada rosters who are a cut above. Remember after 2012 when we tried to flip our team? When we were naive enough to think there were guys just waiting in the wings to take over for JDG, de Rosario and Hutchinson?  Well, we had the worst year in our history scoring one goal and losing to Mauritania. 

Is the USA going to replace Bradley with Trapp? No, that would be knee jerk and stupid. They are developing players better than ever and their domestic league is growing.  The mix wasn't right and you reorganize and move on. You don't panic because mouth pieces like Lalas and Twellman are all emotional.  It was bound to happen eventually.. all the teams in the region are improving and the ball is round. 

The best player in the world in 2006 who wasn't called was actually 22 (Eric Staal) . Crosby was okay, but not as good as Staal at the time.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Blackdude

[TFC2017]

3 hours ago, SpecialK said:

I don't know much about USA players, but for Canada after that lost to El  Salvador I'm questioning that. We all know who are Canada's top guys are and that's not changing any time soon. But guys that are one the fence between starting and sub, that group of players I'm questioning. There are guys out in Europe and South America that haven't been call or they haven't been given a fair shot, so we don't know where they stand. 

Yes it's one game but I think it's a  Conversation that needs to be had and things need to be questioned. Does Canada's men's national team  rely on North American leagues too much? .  Are we ignoring our European talent?  Should we give  others who haven't been called them and chance ? Is Canada picking the right North American players? Are the Canadian North American club players overrated and others are under? . Why are USL guys starting for the national team ? 

I don't know the answer but I'm putting the questions

 

Not saying that players in Europe should be getting called to friendlies and being included in tournament squads but if they're playing in a "professional" league in Europe of relevance, they should be given a call to a camp. Maybe they are being given calls to the camps and not showing well I have no idea. 

 

*By European league of relevance I mean like playing in the 1st division in Andorra doesn't really cut it.

[Keegan]

1 hour ago, Blackdude said:

The best player in the world in 2006 who wasn't called was actually 22 (Eric Staal) . Crosby was okay, but not as good as Staal at the time.

Can't say I agree that staal was ever best but no doubt he was a major omission.  They tried so hard to keep around guys from 02 and 04 instead of bringing in new blood. 

[Blackdude]

3 minutes ago, Keegan said:

Can't say I agree that staal was ever best but no doubt he was a major omission.  They tried so hard to keep around guys from 02 and 04 instead of bringing in new blood. 

Maybe not, but Staal was a much bigger omission than Crosby. He was the leading scorer of the NHL at the time. 

[Scorpion26]

22 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

Apologies as I hate to do this but I hate seeing "of" used when it should clearly be "have" even more. To answer your question - after getting the shaft so many times through the 90's and the 2000's, I probably would happily take advancement for Canada on a "goal" like that, but I would still be mortally embarrassed by it, and the reputation jokes among the general sports fans would be annoying (ie. Canada can only get in when they start being awarded "phantom goals", etc.)

Ah yes thanks teacher.... I didn't realize I made that mistake.

Anyways that answer you as well that might happen, but who would know since Canada isn't in that situation. Will see what happens with Panama from now until WC 2018 or even few months after. Will depend on how they do in the tournament as well.

 

Will be interesting to see what steps the CSA does take from here until 2022 WCQ starts up....

[Scorpion26]

22 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

 

Edited October 12, 2017 by Scorpion26
Double post....

[matty]

So going back to Zambrano's "litmus test" comment, what do you guys think his and the CSA's "competitive standard" is? Like what do you think the ranking cut off is?

Edited October 12, 2017 by matty

[Blackjack15]

Well they played Azerbaijan and Uzbekistan in June of 2016. And Mauritana a year ago with is around 75-110 so i think that's canada's level tbh, any National Team that are ranked lower than 125, 150, 175, 200, dead last etc