General Discussion on CMNT

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

5 hours ago, GasPed said:

Could you please explain the reference to Pierre Poilievre?  Did he actually say something about the incident/team? 

Think his name was only being used as an adjective in that context where the phrase "Pierrie Pollieve wanabe" was concerned.

Edited July 29 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Mattd97]

20 hours ago, red card said:

 

ESPN article about USSF knowing Canada was spying quoted USSF official saying: "Being able to see those sessions doesn't give you everything. But it can absolutely give you a lot."

 

One might wonder why they didn't do anything about it then

[Kent]

17 hours ago, GasPed said:

I think it's fair to say that no one knew what the official stance was before this incident and now we all know.  That said, I think there were enough precursor signs (e.g. Bielsa at Leeds) before this incident to know that the stance was probably not going to be "Who cares - spying on closed door sessions is a legit way to gather information".  But yeah, someone has to be the first to get caught to know what the punishment is.

If I'm not mistaken, in the Bielsa case wasn't it just a 200,000 pound fine? We got a similar fine, 3 staff members suspended for a year, and a 6 point deduction. Seems like the goalposts were moved on us. Kind of like if suddenly a player got a yellow card for being offside.

[GasPed]

27 minutes ago, Kent said:

If I'm not mistaken, in the Bielsa case wasn't it just a 200,000 pound fine? We got a similar fine, 3 staff members suspended for a year, and a 6 point deduction. Seems like the goalposts were moved on us. Kind of like if suddenly a player got a yellow card for being offside.

Yup - but that was not a FIFA sanction - that was imposed by the EFL on Leeds.  So a "precedent" was there, but not one that FIFA necessarily had to follow (and they didn't). 

[reggietfc]

not that it matters,but i saw a clip on yahoo sports with tyler adams and he laughed and said everyone does one way or another.this is so overblown ,players dont care,its the do gooders that have never touched a ball

 

[phresh]

18 minutes ago, reggietfc said:

not that it matters,but i saw a clip on yahoo sports with tyler adams and he laughed and said everyone does one way or another.this is so overblown ,players dont care,its the do gooders that have never touched a ball

 

 

[dyslexic nam]

8 minutes ago, phresh said:

 

A USMNT player acknowledging that he knows EVERY team does it is pretty telling considering the US media was just dredging up past allegations against us.  He is basically admitting that they do it too.  

Edited July 30 by dyslexic nam

[reggietfc]

can someone check if KJ is ok 

[red card]

2 hours ago, Mattd97 said:

One might wonder why they didn't do anything about it then

The same ESPN article quoted a source saying it wasn't worth it given more bigger ticket issues.

They didn't advance the issue with Canada Soccer given the larger relationship between the federations such as co-hosting World Cup 2026 and the inevitable awkwardness such a claim would create.

[reggietfc]

13 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

A USMNT player acknowledging that he knows EVERY team does it is pretty telling considering the US media was just dredging up past allegations against us.  He is basically admitting that they do it too.  

herdman and berhalter had a good relationship during WCQ,they often shared gameplans v mex CR 

[An Observer]

11 hours ago, reggietfc said:

herdman and berhalter had a good relationship during WCQ,they often shared gameplans v mex CR 

Berhalter was probably like “Hey, John. As you are videoing our practice, any tips for how to better run one”

[El Diego]

I posted this in the DroneGate thread in the women's forum, but thought I would cross post here as there may be implications on the men's side in the future.

I encourage everyone to read the FIFA Appeal Committe decision available here: Inside FIFA

Here are some things I thought were noteworthy.

COC, CSA AND KEVIN BLUE COMMENTS

After the public comments of the CSA/Kevin Blue, the Secretariat (at para 22) requested "all materials, documentation and/or information currently in its possession concerning the matter at hand and in particular regarding the purported use(s) of a drone by the Canadian women’s team and staff in the context of the OFT". The decision also referenced article 12 of the FIFA Disciplinary Code about the duty to collaborate.

The CSA, in an effort to appear transparent I suppose, swiftly conducted an investigation and released their public statement. These statements "tipped off" the Secretariat as to what information the CSA had in their possession. It's possible that this request would have been made to the CSA anyway, but my view is that the CSA, while have a duty to collaborate, also has a duty to their national team. These statements introduced tremendous risk.

BEV IS A REAL PIECE OF SHIT

Due to the above, an e-mail exchange was provided to the Appeal Committee and reproduced in the decision. My pasting formatting is wonky, but on March 20, 2024 a performance analyst e-mailed Bev Priestman and reiterated what she told her in person, that being that they wouldn't engage in "spying" for moral and reputational reasons. Bev then emails an HR person the following:

“Hi [HR person] Seeking your advice and input here regarding this formal email on spying. It's something the analyst has always done and I know there is a whole operation on the Men's side with regards to it (we had [guy] in with us recently and he was outstanding in this area)

Yesterday in a meeting when discussing, I asked [analyst] to propose a alternative solution as for scouting it can be the difference between winning and losing and all top 10 teams do it. I received this more 'formal' email this morning and so just after guidance really as to what from a HR stand point I can do or do I need to find another solution in resourcing? It's a tricky one and it's formal for a reason I feel...

Thanks Bev”

Lombardi and Mander, the two staff who did engage in the droning, then state that they did it on their own accord which yeah, ok.

CLEAR DRONES NOT ALLOWED

Lots of people (including myself) were curious as to the specific provisions that say drones are prohibited. There are provisions in the FIFA Disciplinary Code and Olympic Football Tournament Regulations that generally talk about fair play, but don't specifically mention drones or spying. The decision provides more info regarding this. They reference three things that specifically mention drones:

1. FIFA Circular 7 states "Please note that it is prohibited to fly drones over any tournament training sites and stadiums.”

2. FIFA Team Handbook at page 50 states "Please note that it is prohibited to fly drones over any tournament training site"

3. The Team Workshop in advance of the tournament contained a slide in its presentation that stated "Drones will not be allowed in accordance with the banned (sic) imposed by the State.”

Clearly, drones are not allowed and everyone team knows this.

OLYMPIC GAMES AN IMPORTANT CONSIDERATION

In the reasons for the sanction, the Chairperson "could not stress enough that the Respondents’ actions are inexcusable and unacceptable, even more so since the incident occurred at the Olympic Games, the most prestigious multi-sport event in the world which is viewed by millions globally". They added that "the breaches committed by the Respondents are particularly tarnishing to the reputation of football because they occurred during the Olympic Games."

Interestingly, they seemed to deem that Canada had an extra responsibility as the defending champ: "CSA’s responsibility is only heightened in this case considering that it is the reigning champion of the OFT for the Women’s game, having won gold in the Games of the XXXII Olympiad Tokyo 2020 edition (played in 2021)". This strikes me as arbitrary.

UNPRECEDENTED CONDUCT

A reason given for the sanction was because of the "unprecedented and egregious conduct engaged by the Respondents, aggravated in the Chairperson’s opinion by the circumstances of the global setting in which they took place". No other instances of spying were referenced, so it appears that the Chairperson essentially took notice of this. Bielsa's spying was not mentioned, and while that was not in the international context, I don't understand why no other examples were provided by the Chairperson. They could have distinguished them if they wanted to.

The decision concludes by saying that more discipline may be coming after the CSA provides FIFA with the results of their internal investigation.

CONCLUSION

Kevin Blue's comments really sewered the women at this tournament. Bev Priestman is a piece of crap. More sanctions may be coming. FIFA decisions are arbitrary -- I don't know how CAS operates but this is the ground of appeal I would focus on (if its even allowed, idk what you're allowed to appeal).

[CanadaFan123]

Why has Priestman not been fired already? She clearly can’t continue as coach and it would at least show the vultures that we’re taking this serious and perhaps will mitigate any future sanctions. Probably would have helped this appeal as well. Besides, it’s not like she’s been doing a great job in recent times anyhow. 

[BrennanFan]

31 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Why has Priestman not been fired already? She clearly can’t continue as coach and it would at least show the vultures that we’re taking this serious and perhaps will mitigate any future sanctions. Probably would have helped this appeal as well. Besides, it’s not like she’s been doing a great job in recent times anyhow. 

im sure it will happen once the olympics are done.

[CanadaFan123]

9 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

im sure it will happen once the olympics are done.

I am as well but why even wait? We’re maximizing our damage imo.

 

[Kadenge]

5 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

im sure it will happen once the olympics are done.

+ CSA are probably consulting with their lawyers re the employment contract. Hopefully there is sufficient cause for dismissal vs having to pay out a significant amount. It may be  a career ending situation for Bev,so it's unlikely she will go quietly but who knows.

[Obinna]

 

[Vasi]

9 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

I am as well but why even wait? We’re maximizing our damage imo.

 

Because you will take more media attention of the players on the pitch trying to defend the gold medal!

[Dominic94]

These kind of dismissals take time because it’s an unexpected way to fire someone.

[SthMelbRed]

The Wally with the Brolly, Schteve McLaren, is the new Jamaica manager.....

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jul/31/steve-mcclaren-leaves-manchester-united-to-be-jamaica-head-coach

 

 

[SoccMan]

So just watching Canada play France in the quarterfinal of the Olympic men’s tournament. Basketball a very popular sport in Canada, however, looking at Twitter as a barometer of popularity, don’t know if it means anything, but whenever, Canada men’s or even women playing in big games in soccer you always see their games trending on Twitter usually number one , however, looking at where this men’s Olympic quarterfinal is trending it’s not even in the top 10 right now last time I looked . Something to think about when you wonder the popularity of soccer in Canada compared to other sports .

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, SoccMan said:

So just watching Canada play France in the quarterfinal of the Olympic men’s tournament. Basketball a very popular sport in Canada, however, looking at Twitter as a barometer of popularity, don’t know if it means anything, but whenever, Canada men’s or even women playing in big games in soccer you always see their games trending on Twitter usually number one , however, looking at where this men’s Olympic quarterfinal is trending it’s not even in the top 10 right now last time I looked . Something to think about when you wonder the popularity of soccer in Canada compared to other sports .

Thanks for sharing.

I wonder how much of that is due to the opponent. For example, say Canada is playing Argentina right? That's a big global audience as soccer is more global than any sport and the biggest teams have a global footprint. Obviously that's just an example and maybe it doesn't translate to the women, but on the men's side it's probably a factor, no? 

[SoccMan]

6 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Thanks for sharing.

I wonder how much of that is due to the opponent. For example, say Canada is playing Argentina right? That's a big global audience as soccer is more global than any sport and the biggest teams have a global footprint. Obviously that's just an example and maybe it doesn't translate to the women, but on the men's side it's probably a factor, no? 

I can see that but I was just talking about what’s trending in Canada on Twitter . In big games be it the woman or men Canada men’s and women always seem to trend on top during their big games . Like I was just surprised that Canada in a big basketball game at the Olympics at the time I looked was not trending at the top in Canada . I don’t know what it really means in the end but just an observation and curiosity for me I guess , but something to think about when one compares the popularity of soccer in Canada compared to the so called big four sports in Canada .

[Obinna]

18 minutes ago, SoccMan said:

I can see that but I was just talking about what’s trending in Canada on Twitter . In big games be it the woman or men Canada men’s and women always seem to trend on top during their big games . Like I was just surprised that Canada in a big basketball game at the Olympics at the time I looked was not trending at the top in Canada . I don’t know what it really means in the end but just an observation and curiosity for me I guess , but something to think about when one compares the popularity of soccer in Canada compared to the so called big four sports in Canada .

Ah I see appreciate the clarification. 

Is it relative by any chance? A random typical big game for men and women may be trending relative to a lack of anything else big going on, whereas Canada basketball may be overshadowed now by other things going on in the Olympic world, perhaps?

Maybe comparing with Canada in women's soccer is a like-for-like comparison as they'd both have the Olympic background noise?

[Obinna]

On second thought, maybe that doesn't even matter as there are no shortage of things unrelated to Sport that would be competing with Canada soccer or basketball...