General Discussion on CMNT

[Shway]

9 minutes ago, Obinna said:

If we finish fourth in this tournament with 4 wins (Peru, Chile, Venezuela, Uruguay) and 2 losses (Argentina x 2), are you saying everything else (defending aside) is a mess?

If we finished fourth with 2 group stage Ws it's a success. Chile and Peru were both xW (for those who love expected stats)

Our attack was out of wack, why because the players were out of form. However they went unchanged for majority of the tournament and friendlies and then the coach blames its on not being able to rotate his squad but has 3 other strikers on the bench. 

[narduch]

3 minutes ago, Shway said:

If we finished fourth with 2 group stage Ws it's a success. Chile and Peru were both xW (for those who love expected stats)

Our attack was out of wack, why because the players were out of form. However they went unchanged for majority of the tournament and friendlies and then the coach blames its on not being able to rotate his squad but has 3 other strikers on the bench. 

My one real criticism Marsch is that he probably should have started using more of his bench earlier in the tournament. I think the Uruguay game proved this.

Also I would have liked to have seen more of JRR.

[Shway]

What is everyone's early expectations for the GC25? ....Semi-Finals? Finals? Win?

or do you want to wait to see who the invited teams are first?

[narduch]

Just now, Shway said:

What is everyone's early expectations for the GC25? ....Semi-Finals? Finals? Win?

or do you want to wait to see who the invited teams are first?

Semi-finals should be a goal.

But yes. You could end up getting strong invite team in the knock outs that may mess that up.

[Shway]

4 minutes ago, narduch said:

My one real criticism Marsch is that he probably should have started using more of his bench earlier in the tournament. I think the Uruguay game proved this.

Also I would have liked to have seen more of JRR.

It bothered me that he didn't use his bench...and I was okay with him standing on that decision. But then he goes into a press conference talking about Argentina was able to rotate a lot of their guys throughout the tournament, talking as if he's a pundit and not the coach. Like what? Why didn't you make those subs...you burnt David to the ground, you didn't sub Larin when Tani, JRR, and Bair were all on then bench fresh. He was willing to (rightfully) bench Kone, and look what it did for him after. 

Edited July 18 by Shway

[Obinna]

3 minutes ago, Shway said:

I can go back and quote what I said before this tournament, which was we should beat Chile and Peru- regardless of our coach. We have the talent, and players. We got 1 fortunately, and should've got the other. 

You did say that and in theory that was a reasonable expectation. I may have even backed you on that, I don't recall. 

But one thing I underestimated about Peru, which became clear once the match started, was their "mentality/experience". It's the type of quality we don't have yet as a nation. Chile had it in spades, too.

Sure, on paper we had a younger, more athletic, and arguably more talented team than both Peru and Chile, but we lacked the knowledge of how to put them away.

For me, Venezuela never had that same kind of "mentality/experience", edge on Canada, probably because like Canada they don't have a history of winning, so they haven't yet developed that mentality themselves. I think that's why the Venezuela game felt relatively comfortable, even though we didn't play up a man.

 

[Obinna]

10 minutes ago, Shway said:

If we finished fourth with 2 group stage Ws it's a success. Chile and Peru were both xW (for those who love expected stats)

Our attack was out of wack, why because the players were out of form. However they went unchanged for majority of the tournament and friendlies and then the coach blames its on not being able to rotate his squad but has 3 other strikers on the bench. 

Marsch is far from perfect and if we want to be critical we can say he should have trusted his depth sooner, as evidenced by the Uruguay, where the depth players looked just as good as the starters. The coach could have rotated more, but I am confident he'll have learned that after how good the likes of Choiniere and Ahmed were, not to mention others (Tani, LDF, etc.).

On the flipside, Kone was rotated out, which was a big call. He trusted his bench alternative (Osorio) and it worked out.

I think it really came down to not rotating out David and Larin, but both combined for the goal against Peru, and keeping either on the bench versus Venezuela would have been wild...

[jonovision]

15 minutes ago, Shway said:

It bothered me that he didn't use his bench...and I was okay with him standing on that decision. But then he goes into a press conference talking about Argentina was able to rotate a lot of their guys throughout the tournament, talking as if he's a pundit and not the coach. Like what? Why didn't you make those subs...you burnt David to the ground, you didn't sub Larin when Tani, JRR, and Bair were all on then bench fresh. He was willing to (rightfully) bench Kone, and look what it did for him after. 

Marsch ran his bench in a manner to achieve what would have seemed an ambitious but achievable goal: get out of the group. It is easy for me to imagine a too-heavy diet of the second tier players compromising that goal. I can also easily imagine the outrage here and elsewhere if he sent out a rotated squad against Argentina in the SF, but even with fresher players the result would not have been any different.

Edited July 18 by jonovision

[Obinna]

15 minutes ago, Shway said:

What is everyone's early expectations for the GC25? ....Semi-Finals? Finals? Win?

or do you want to wait to see who the invited teams are first?

If we have a normal Gold Cup, my minimum expectation is finals...

But if we fail to win nations league, we need to win Gold Cup. This group needs at least 1 trophy this summer. No more moral victories!

If we have an expanded Gold Cup, I'll have to reassess my expectations based on the opponents. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 hour ago, Shway said:

If we finished fourth with 2 group stage Ws it's a success. Chile and Peru were both xW (for those who love expected stats)

Our attack was out of wack, why because the players were out of form. However they went unchanged for majority of the tournament and friendlies and then the coach blames its on not being able to rotate his squad but has 3 other strikers on the bench. 

I would like to nail down something, if that's okay.

In your mind, a "successful tournament" changes to a successful tournament with a draw changing to a win against Peru.

 

Edit: I guess I feel there is a difference between a perfect (even judged at our talent level) tournament and a successful one.  It was not the first, it was very much the second. In my opinion.

Edited July 18 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Mihairokov]

2 hours ago, Shway said:

What is everyone's early expectations for the GC25? ....Semi-Finals? Finals? Win?

or do you want to wait to see who the invited teams are first?

A lot of this depends on what GC looks like. If they invite some non-Concacaf teams and make it a better tournament, and we send our A team, then semifinals/finals is my expectation. If it's a standard GC and we send our A/B team then I guess my expectations don't really change... 🙂

[narduch]

They are supposed to be inviting 8 teams from other Confederations to use it as a World Cup prep.

One issue may be that anyone who plays in the mega FIFA Club World Cup may skip the Gold Cup. Currently that is Davies, Buchanan and Eustaquio 

Edited July 18 by narduch

[Kadenge]

How many of us wanted the type of rotation that Marsch went with vs Uruguay??...step up people. And who expected the kind of performances that Ahmed, Choiniere and even LDF delivered in that final game?  Ahmed & JRR were not there for the Euro games so Marsch had less time to assess them. I agree he should have dropped Larin earlier. When a team is generating good scoring chances it's on the players to convert them. Larin, Tani, Staq, Oso and to a less extent  David all missed XGs. We scored 1 goal and 1 via own goal in 3 WC games, were blanked vs USA in NL final,  scored 2  but conceded 3 vs Jamaica and then really struggled to score vs T&T who were mostly a domestic side. Marsch now has a better understanding of  player depth and that will help at the next tournament.

[Obinna]

3 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

How many of us wanted the type of rotation that Marsch went with vs Uruguay??...step up people. And who expected the kind of performances that Ahmed, Choiniere and even LDF delivered in that final game?  Ahmed & JRR were not there for the Euro games so Marsch had less time to assess them. I agree he should have dropped Larin earlier. When a team is generating good scoring chances it's on the players to convert them. Larin, Tani, Staq, Oso and to a less extent  David all missed XGs. We scored 1 goal and 1 via own goal in 3 WC games, were blanked vs USA in NL final,  scored 2  but conceded 3 vs Jamaica and then really struggled to score vs T&T who were mostly a domestic side. Marsch now has a better understanding of  player depth and that will help at the next tournament.

I will hold my hand up and say I was really concerned with the starting line up. Thrilled the boys showed well and put my fears to bed.

[Joe MacCarthy]

 

[Watchmen]

8 hours ago, Obinna said:

If we have a normal Gold Cup, my minimum expectation is finals...

But if we fail to win nations league, we need to win Gold Cup. This group needs at least 1 trophy this summer. No more moral victories!

If we have an expanded Gold Cup, I'll have to reassess my expectations based on the opponents. 

I agree. I think the window has opened for them to win one of our regional tournaments. They've shown they can compete with bigger nations. Now it's time to take the next step and convert that in to winning trophies against lesser ones.

[Corazon]

I’m not sure if this has been posted yet but it’s nice to see what a successful tournament can do for our national program in terms of fan support and growth.

 

Edited July 19 by Corazon

[Bigandy]

On 7/18/2024 at 6:27 AM, Shway said:

I can go back and quote what I said before this tournament, which was we should beat Chile and Peru- regardless of our coach. We have the talent, and players. We got 1 fortunately, and should've got the other. 

Kone was benched for 1 game.
Buchanan was benched for 1 game, and then got injured.
Millar started Holland, France, Argentina, and Peru...didn't do well at ALL this tournament and you're saying he got benched? 
I'm convinced you're in the euphoria of "winning" 4th and making stuff up.

One thing I'll say is I'm consistent with my assessments of players and coaches I hold everyone under the same light. A lot of you guys hold affinity to persons and it shows in your opinions. Everybody played on the same field, everybody played in the same temperatures.

Marsch has had 8 games, against great opponents, some even elite. My opinion is, that is more than enough time to get your system across considering he didn't rotate much since Netherlands to Uruguay. And his subs seemed more planned than strategic. A lot of you were critical over Biello's style/system but he had far less games, so be consistent. For someone whose philosophy is more attack oriented, we established our defence. 

Stop making egregious statements that I've never contributed too..."perhaps Richie and Shaff should ran through Argentina". 

I'll finish with saying ...

Marsch...American...Bad bad

I think the expectations to win against Chile is a bit high. Especially given the year of performances post copa. Sure I back our guys but it isn’t black and white for me. 
 

As for benching…. The definition is being in the bench and not starting. So I’m not sure how that’s delusional.  Should we not sub millar in anymore?  Who would you have subbed at winger instead? To not start big names like kone and Buchanan was inconceivable before the tournament and completely unexpected. Who are you referring to that gets too much leeway?  Larin is the only one I can think of. 
 

I think your opinion on systems is valid but a bit theoretical. 8 games may be enough to learn a system but surely 9 or 14 or 200 games increases the mastery of the system. We are still early days compared to some other nations.  The fields are the same for everyone but obviously a small pitch helps stoke (of 2000s) more than Barca. 
 

I know my comments were silly about laryea running thru Argentina but that’s also a consideration.  Our offence (regardless that everyone else has the same conditions of heat, poor fields and small fields) is just not in an elite category.  An elite striker playing cam, mls right back playing wing, mls winger and a back up la liga.  That’s not top quality at all

[red card]

Jon Conway says Canada Soccer shouldn't be directing players to MLS academies. Instead, go via the L1 to CPL route.

u17 women's team is almost nearly from L1 but should have NSL players in future editions.

 

Edited July 22 by red card

[gigi riva]

4 hours ago, red card said:

Jon Conway says Canada Soccer shouldn't be directing players to MLS academies. Instead, go via the L1 to CPL route.

u17 women's team is almost nearly from L1 but should have NSL players in future editions.

 

I agree with Mr Conway

[Joe MacCarthy]

 

[Atlantic]

 

[narduch]

Yup. It's Westhead

[Mihairokov]

TSN's quick with it, aren't they? Shameful stuff from Canada Soccer regardless.

[VinceA]

1 minute ago, narduch said:

Yup. It's Westhead

Doesn't make it any less important. I know this sub hates him (with some people hating on him for some pretty suspect and weird reasons) but for all the high and mighty many here like to pretend to be we ain't any better than the other CONCACAF nations that try to get advantages anyway they can.