General Discussion on CMNT

[Obinna]

That's a damn good squad. Like the Choniere shout. Don't like the Bombito shout, but it feels accurate so I like it from that perspective. Crazy amount of depth as you have pointed out. 

[Jack1997]

2 hours ago, Shway said:

Here's my squad of 23, if we had friendlies scheduled in the next few weeks.

GK: Borjan, St. Clair, Sirios
CB: Miller, Cornelius, McGraw, MacNaughton, Kennedy
MF: Choiniere, Kone, Estaquio, Osorio, Bombito
WB: Laryea, Adekugbe, Buchanan, Davies, Corbeanu, Nelson
FW: David, Larin, Ugbo, Brym
_____
------------------------Borjan--------------------------
-------------McGraw----Cornelius----Miller------------
Buchanan-------Eustaquio-----Kone----------Davies--
------------------------Choiniere------------------------
-----------------David----------Larin--------------------
________

Everyone except Borjan is under the age of 27, and tbh I was tempted to not put St. Clair as the starter.
I think the goal should be to qualify for Copa America, and use that squad to build for 26 (with no more Hoilett, Vitoria, Borjan - with the ultimate respect)

Side note, I think going forward we will see a lot of roster turnover for positions 16-23 (outside of the elite core 7-8 guys) because we have sooooo many guys playing at the same level and getting adequate club minutes or have recently appeared in the CMNT. It could and should be based on form. Like look at this list of the guys below that are not listed above:

Johnston, Vitoria, Cavallini, Hoilett, Fraser, Millar, Loturi, Piette, Kaye, Ahmed, Shaffelburg, Waterman, ZBG, Raposo, JM-R, Franklin, Zator, JR-R, Vilsaint, Bair, Heibert, Priso, Balidsimo, Saliba, Franklin, Edwards, Froese and Colyn. 

This is why I wouldn't be mad if JH leaves. He's set a good foundation and mentality to build off of while allowing the potential of seeing fresh new faces, and new ideas from a new coach who holds no affinity to certain players (that is if it isn't from within).

I don’t know what you mean by putting Johnston in the group of all those players, I assume you don’t have him in because of his injury? If Johnston is healthy he is one of our “Core guys”.

I disagree with Bombito being on there, I think it should be Ahmed or Loturi. If you want someone who can play the 6 I would call up Loturi, I know we played Bombito way more at the golf cup but Bombito barely plays for one of the worst clubs in the MLS, Loturi is one of the best players on a team in a comparable league, he’s also younger. I think Ahmed should be called up over Bombito because he just looks better then Bombito, from the gold cup and when I watch MLS.

 

 

[blueseeka]

Agreed Ahmed definitely over Bombito and Johnston probably over either Kennedy or McNaughton

[Obinna]

8 hours ago, blueseeka said:

Agreed Ahmed definitely over Bombito and Johnston probably over either Kennedy or McNaughton

Pretty sure Shway left Johnston out due to injury. IF he's fit he's obviously in. 

Agreed with Ahmed, though I think Herdman is in love with Bombito so I would be shocked if he wasn't there.

I wonder actually if Piette gets a recall. Looked good the other night against Toronto. Loturi obviously has the upside but Piette is more effective and proven at this level (for now). Love me some Loturi though, so I hope he finds a way in. 

[toontownman]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Agreed with Ahmed, though I think Herdman is in love with Bombito so I would be shocked if he wasn't there.

Has he been injured? He has played twice in the past two months and both in MLS Next Pro (45 mins and 90 mins). Given other options performing well I think its hard to justify calling Bombito when he hasn't made any MLS appearances since before the Gold Cup, especially if he is recovering from injury. As you mention, the coaching team are certainly high on him though.  

[Corazon]

I think the best thing going for Ahmed is that he had a standout Gold Cup.  Because he's played a total of 58 minutes himself over 3 appearances off the bench since the Gold Cup ended over a month ago.  I hope I'm wrong but it looks like minutes may be hard to come by for Ahmed going forward.  He performed so well over the Gold Cup, I think he is deserving for the next camp.  But there may be an argument for a few other Canadian midfielders playing far more frequently in the MLS over the next few months.

[phresh]

4 minutes ago, toontownman said:

Has he been injured? He has played twice in the past two months and both in MLS Next Pro (45 mins and 90 mins). Given other options performing well I think its hard to justify calling Bombito when he hasn't made any MLS appearances since before the Gold Cup, especially if he is recovering from injury. As you mention, the coaching team are certainly high on him though.  

That's probably because Colorado's only played two MLS matches since Canada's QF loss, was on the bench vs Houston July 15. He went 90 vs Toluca and played 31 minutes vs Nashville during the Leagues Cup. I'd guess he was playing with the reserve team to stay sharp. Tonight's their first game in nearly a month, he'll probably play.

[toontownman]

16 minutes ago, phresh said:

That's probably because Colorado's only played two MLS matches since Canada's QF loss, was on the bench vs Houston July 15. He went 90 vs Toluca and played 31 minutes vs Nashville during the Leagues Cup. I'd guess he was playing with the reserve team to stay sharp. Tonight's their first game in nearly a month, he'll probably play.

Crazy! That makes more sense 🤣 Thanks!

[Jack1997]

1 hour ago, Corazon said:

Because he's played a total of 58 minutes himself over 3 appearances off the bench since the Gold Cup ended over a month ago

This is incrediblely misleading, Vancouver has only played 5 games since the golf cup ended and Ahmed was injured for 2 of them. In all 3 he’s been available he’s come off the bench, not the best also not the worst but either way much better than Bombito.

[Corazon]

30 minutes ago, Jack1997 said:

This is incrediblely misleading, Vancouver has only played 5 games since the golf cup ended and Ahmed was injured for 2 of them. In all 3 he’s been available he’s come off the bench, not the best also not the worst but either way much better than Bombito.

Fair enough. But I will say that my post wasn't in comparison to Bombito at all because I still think he's far from locking down a starting role at Colorado (despite potential).  Obviously if healthy, Kone & Eustaquio are locks for October.  Loturi didn't get to show much at the Gold Cup but he could be playing regularly up into October and has been included in all 3 camps this year (plus, this camp is overseas). On this side of the Atlantic, Choiniere has to be a lock at this point.  That is 3 or 4 midfielders right there.  Then there are long time MNT midfielders Osorio & Piette who will likely be starting regularly, albeit on worse teams (they will be in strong consideration whether we as fans agree with it or not).  Kaye has been better at New England but I don't think he will be in consideration (rightly so).  Maybe Fraser can lock a starting role down?  But then you have a young midfielder Saliba who is showing great promise and starting regularly as well.  I'm not here to argue about why the above should or shouldn't be included for October but rather just putting it out as discussion.  I'd have Ahmed in my top 4 right now behind Eustaquio, Kone and Choiniere but there's definitely arguments to be made for the above if he has in fact dropped down to a bench role.

I guess time will tell, but with some of the reinforcements Vancouver have brought in and from some of the posts I've seen online from Whitecaps fans, it seems that minutes are going to be tough to come by in Vancouver.  I'm team Ahmed all the way and I am all for including Ahmed in our next camp as of now because I was so impressed at the Gold Cup but there may be some outsiders challenging and veterans returning.

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Corazon

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

5 hours ago, Obinna said:

Pretty sure Shway left Johnston out due to injury. IF he's fit he's obviously in. 

Agreed with Ahmed, though I think Herdman is in love with Bombito so I would be shocked if he wasn't there.

I wonder actually if Piette gets a recall. Looked good the other night against Toronto. Loturi obviously has the upside but Piette is more effective and proven at this level (for now). Love me some Loturi though, so I hope he finds a way in. 

We still have the issue of who plays RCB when Johnston is not available.  I can hope and pray for McGraw to get faster but not sure my faith is to that level.  

Is Millar or Kennedy - was there this year I think but not really tested, if I remember correctly -  good enough with their feet and quick thinking enough to play on the wrong side? (I like Cornelius on the left and probably McGraw in the middle as it stands.) Zator is another option, getting decent minutes at a decent level. 

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[dyslexic nam]

25 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

We still have the issue of who plays RCB when Johnston is not available.  I can hope and pray for McGraw to gets faster but no sure my faith is to that level.  

Is Millar or Kennedy - was there this year I think best not really tested, if I remember correctly -  good enough with their feet and quick thinking enough to play on the wrong side? (I like Cornelius on the left and probably McGraw in the middle as it stands.) Zator is another option, getting decent minutes at a decent level. 

It blows my mind that some of these guys that have obvious speed issues are not doing intense sprint training as part of their training regime or n an effort to get noticeably faster.  Sure, a guy like ZMG is on the low end of the pay scale for a pro athlete but he is a professional soccer player in an environment where trainers and physios are available on demand - and where speed is an absolutely essential attribute.  

He is making (from what I saw) the equivalent of $175k CAD per year to play soccer.  That is a good wage.  If I am his employer, I am zeroing in on an area of obvious weakness (like lack of pace) and getting my trainers to design a training regime that will make him faster at the top end, and more explosive at the low end.  You can do that with literally anyone - and it should be relatively straightforward for a guy who is used to substantial fitness training and who is obviously blessed with natural physical gifts.  

It is sort of like Goretzka at Bayern.  He clearly decided during COVID to use his time productively and to get stronger.  Admittedly, BM would have absolutely elite facilities and trainers, but I refuse to think that a team like Portland wouldn’t employ trainers who couldn’t figure out an effective speed-training regime.  

I am honestly baffled by the fact that some of these guys, who are in their peak physical years, continue to be lumberingly slow.  There is no excuse for it. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

2 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

It is sort of like Goretzka at Bayern.  He clearly decided during COVID to use his time productively and to get stronger.  Admittedly, BM would have absolutely elite facilities and trainers, but I refuse to think that a team like Portland wouldn’t employ trainers who couldn’t figure out an effective speed-training regime.  

To be fair though, I think Goretzka is slower than before he was a body-builder.  I am sure McGraw could drop muscle and get quicker but is that what he wants?

[dyslexic nam]

Just now, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

To be fair though, I think Goretzka is slower than before he was a body-builder.  I am sure McGraw could drop muscle and get quicker but is that what he wants?

Considering he regularly got outpaced (badly) by attackers in limited his time with Canada, I would think the ability to lift a car over your head would take a backseat to some fundamental skills.  

[Shway]

3 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

It blows my mind that some of these guys that have obvious speed issues .......

It is sort of like Goretzka at Bayern.  He clearly decided during COVID to use his time productively and to get stronger.  Admittedly, BM would have absolutely elite facilities and trainers, but I refuse to think that a team like Portland wouldn’t employ trainers who couldn’t figure out an effective speed-training regime.  

I am honestly baffled by the fact that some of these guys, who are in their peak physical years, continue to be lumberingly slow.  There is no excuse for it. 

I 100% agree with this. I find it crazy, and mind-boggling as well. This isn't basketball where guys don't want to affect their jump shots.  

There is the flipside that once you're not blessed with speed, there's only so much you can do especially after the age of 25. But a lot of sports science is proving that there are ways to improve. 

Akinola and his 600K salary is what bothers me considering his weight and fitness issues.

 

[RS]

7 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

It blows my mind that some of these guys that have obvious speed issues are not doing intense sprint training as part of their training regime or n an effort to get noticeably faster.  Sure, a guy like ZMG is on the low end of the pay scale for a pro athlete but he is a professional soccer player in an environment where trainers and physios are available on demand - and where speed is an absolutely essential attribute.  

He is making (from what I saw) the equivalent of $175k CAD per year to play soccer.  That is a good wage.  If I am his employer, I am zeroing in on an area of obvious weakness (like lack of pace) and getting my trainers to design a training regime that will make him faster at the top end, and more explosive at the low end.  You can do that with literally anyone - and it should be relatively straightforward for a guy who is used to substantial fitness training and who is obviously blessed with natural physical gifts.  

It is sort of like Goretzka at Bayern.  He clearly decided during COVID to use his time productively and to get stronger.  Admittedly, BM would have absolutely elite facilities and trainers, but I refuse to think that a team like Portland wouldn’t employ trainers who couldn’t figure out an effective speed-training regime.  

I am honestly baffled by the fact that some of these guys, who are in their peak physical years, continue to be lumberingly slow.  There is no excuse for it. 

Counterpoint: Most teams already do this and those players are at their peak speed.

[Shway]

....For those questioning Bombito.
I personally like him, I think he has a lot of upside with more game time....
(He recently played 90 in the Rapids last game, and let's see if he features tonight)

The reason why I selected him over Ahmed, is because he's more defensive. And we have Kone, Eustaqiou, and Osorio who are midfielders who like to get forward. The only argument would've been Loturi, but I've just seen more of Bombito to make the decision. 

[Shway]

56 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

We still have the issue of who plays RCB when Johnston is not available.  I can hope and pray for McGraw to get faster but not sure my faith is to that level.  

Is Miller or Kennedy - was there this year I think but not really tested, if I remember correctly -  good enough with their feet and quick thinking enough to play on the wrong side? (I like Cornelius on the left and probably McGraw in the middle as it stands.) Zator is another option, getting decent minutes at a decent level. 

 

Is Laryea an option? 
I agree though, that is a continued glaring issue.

[dyslexic nam]

20 minutes ago, Shway said:

I 100% agree with this. I find it crazy, and mind-boggling as well. This isn't basketball where guys don't want to affect their jump shots.  

There is the flipside that once you're not blessed with speed, there's only so much you can do especially after the age of 25. But a lot of sports science is proving that there are ways to improve. 

Akinola and his 600K salary is what bothers me considering his weight and fitness issues.

 

Agree on Akinola 100%.  It would be one thing if these guys were just a bit slower or a bit weaker than other guys, but when the differences are noticeable and impactful, I don’t get how a coach can let it slide.  If you are gassed after 60 minutes (Akinola) I am putting you on one helluva intense fitness regime.  If literally every opposing attacker is faster than you (McGraw) I am prioritizing sprint training.  Hell, I am writing it into your contract that I get you for 2 hours of training per day and that I get to determine that training regime.  

[dyslexic nam]

23 minutes ago, RS said:

Counterpoint: Most teams already do this and those players are at their peak speed.

I find it hard to below that a guy as visibly slow as ZMG is as fast as he can be (any more than I believe Akinola is as fit as he can be).  

[Obinna]

39 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I find it hard to below that a guy as visibly slow as ZMG is as fast as he can be (any more than I believe Akinola is as fit as he can be).  

Maybe there's some untapped speed when it comes to ZMG, but maybe there isn't and he's at his personal peak already, who knows? 

I agree with @RS. He's a pro player so he's likely done, or is doing, some kind of speed training, if not individual than very likely with the team. Players are aware of their limitations and work on them, be it fitness or speed. I have no reason to think he's not trying to get better like everyone else. 

 

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, Shway said:

I 100% agree with this. I find it crazy, and mind-boggling as well. This isn't basketball where guys don't want to affect their jump shots.  

There is the flipside that once you're not blessed with speed, there's only so much you can do especially after the age of 25. But a lot of sports science is proving that there are ways to improve. 

Akinola and his 600K salary is what bothers me considering his weight and fitness issues.

 

Bottom line is not every player wants to improve their game. Some guys come into the league, it's more than they ever expected, then they peak, coast, decline, and retire. Some guys improve their game every year, do the off season work, expand their game, and reap the rewards of a long and successful career. Akinola and Davies are around the same age, they're around 2 inches apart, and I'm sure at some point in their teenage years, they had a similar physique. One of those guys comes back to training camp every summer looking more jacked and fit, the other has weight and fitness issues and peaked at like 19. Don't want to speculate on Akinola's motivations in playing soccer, but if it isn't the case for him, it surely is the case for many others, and some guys just want to collect a paycheck, play a game for a few years, and move on with their lives.

In basketball you have guys like Lebron and Steph Curry who have improved their physique every year well into their mid to late 30s, and that's why they're still among the best players in the league. Guys like Melo and Westbrook peaked young, never added to their game, and at the same age that steph and lebron were earning north of $40M/yr, those guys were trying to latch on to teams with minimum deals.

Lebron spends $2M on his health every year. Davies more or less locks himself in a training facility during the time he's away from Bayern. Some other guys take vacations and spend time with their families. That difference compounds over time.

Edited August 23, 2023 by InglewoodJack

[Ottawafan]

Vittoria will be with the squad regardless of the coach.

[costarg]

5 hours ago, Shway said:

Is Laryea an option? 
I agree though, that is a continued glaring issue.

We'll eventually end up realizing we don't have the player profiles to play 3 at the back.  Gotta give up trying to plug round holes with square pegs.

[costarg]

5 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

Agree on Akinola 100%.  It would be one thing if these guys were just a bit slower or a bit weaker than other guys, but when the differences are noticeable and impactful, I don’t get how a coach can let it slide.  If you are gassed after 60 minutes (Akinola) I am putting you on one helluva intense fitness regime.  If literally every opposing attacker is faster than you (McGraw) I am prioritizing sprint training.  Hell, I am writing it into your contract that I get you for 2 hours of training per day and that I get to determine that training regime.  

I feel the craziest example of a fitness issue was Jackson-Hamel.  The guy could really score, but he could not give 55 minutes.  The guy just could not play an entire game, he always just collapsed sometimes not even injured, at times cramps, other times just couldn't run anymore.  It was crazy.  You knew if he started, 1 of the 3 changes had to be wasted to remove your attacker at 55/60.  To the point they just used him as a super sub.  Not really ideal in any situation.