Stephen Eustaquio

[Canuckistan2019]

3 minutes ago, jonovision said:

Has Canada ever had a decent result at any international tournament?

You guys have to realize a lot nba Canadian players don’t show up to play for. Canada and prefer having a full offseason. Most times the Canada team consist of few nba players with the rest being journey men playing in Europe or lower leagues.

 

talent pool wise Canada is stacked and is top 5 country in basketball 

[Mattd97]

believe it or not, even when NHL players werent allowed at the olympics and we didnt win gold for 50 years - we were still good at hockey.  a national teams success is not the only barometer of how good a nations populace is at a sport. the argument was never that the canadian seniors mens basketball team is super succesful, it was that canada is good at basketball.  which is a clear cut answer. so ill try to draw myself away and back in to watching the newfound plethora of canada soccer content

[InglewoodJack]

55 minutes ago, PegCityCam said:

Not arguing lol, but imo and what seems like a decent comparison to me....calling Canada "good at basketball" at the moment is like calling Canada good at soccer/football about 9/10 months ago. All the potential and skill is there. Everyone (most everyone: see Arfield/Wiggins) is on the same page as far as mindset and commitment. They're killing it in the WC qualies and have actually achieved qualification. Now it just remains to be seen how they do on the World Stage. Again, thats simply the way i look at it. Whatever way you see it, it's a damn good time to be a fan of global sports in Canada.

Edit: Also, prayers up for Steve-O!

FWIW Wiggins made amends with Canada basketball and is back on the team. He was at the Oly qualifiers (Travelling during covid, after an extremely disappointing season for his club, that says a lot). He would've probably played with the team this summer, but he started nearly 82 games for GSW, then 16 in the playoffs, and won a ring as the second best player on the team. Think that's worth a break from international play. Now that his club situation is in a really good place, those good vibes seem to have led him to rediscover his love for basketball, which will only serve to bring him deeper into the Canada fold.

[RS]

11 minutes ago, Mattd97 said:

believe it or not, even when NHL players werent allowed at the olympics and we didnt win gold for 50 years - we were still good at hockey.  a national teams success is not the only barometer of how good a nations populace is at a sport. the argument was never that the canadian seniors mens basketball team is super succesful, it was that canada is good at basketball.  which is a clear cut answer. so ill try to draw myself away and back in to watching the newfound plethora of canada soccer content

This is the best comparison I've seen made in this discussion. No one would say, "We are not good at hockey, we have guys who play well who are on good teams in a good league" during that 50-year drought.

It's not completely apples to apples of course. I agree that Canada's men eventually need to prove something on the world stage, but as a nation (which includes women's players, btw) we are certainly already "good" at basketball.

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

According to the geniuses here, England has by far the best footballers in the world and is clearly the best nation in football because if you count the number of English footballers in the EPL, they outnumber everyone else by miles.

This is the level.

For a team to be considered good at anything in any sport, they have to perform. Canada isn't that good at basketball, not yet.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[RS]

5 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

According to the geniuses here, England has by far the best footballers in the world and is c ok early the best nation in football because if you count the number of English footballers in the EPL, they outnumber everyone else by miles.

Nice try, but not the same argument. The equivalent to England footballers in the EPL would be American basketballers in the NBA (which you called "a good league.")

[InglewoodJack]

7 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

According to the geniuses here, England has by far the best footballers in the world and is clearly the best nation in football because if you count the number of English footballers in the EPL, they outnumber everyone else by miles.

This is the level.

For a team to be considered good at anything in any sport, they have to perform. Canada isn't that good at basketball, not yet.

The gap between the NBA and even the second best league- La Liga? is wider than the gap between the Premier League and MLS.

[InglewoodJack]

23 minutes ago, Mattd97 said:

believe it or not, even when NHL players werent allowed at the olympics and we didnt win gold for 50 years - we were still good at hockey.  a national teams success is not the only barometer of how good a nations populace is at a sport. the argument was never that the canadian seniors mens basketball team is super succesful, it was that canada is good at basketball.  which is a clear cut answer. so ill try to draw myself away and back in to watching the newfound plethora of canada soccer content

Hockey is a great comparison because like Basketball, there isn't a stable international schedule with important games throughout the year. Didn't we finish like 7th in the Korea olympics with Germany winning silver? As good as they've become in hockey, you would be laughed out of any conversation if you claimed they were the better country.

[RS]

5 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

The gap between the NBA and even the second best league- La Liga? is wider than the gap between the Premier League and MLS.

Yes. And Canada's men, when their better/best players actually care to show up, are a good basketball team. Even the B/C team is proving to be better than their equivalents from around the Americas with their undefeated run.

Canada proved in August that their best can compete, when they easily handled world No. 3 Argentina in a World Cup qualifier. Now, like the men's soccer team, Canada needs to show its worth in the World Cup.

The Canadian basketballers have a much better chance of doing so, to be honest.

[Unnamed Trialist]

8 minutes ago, RS said:

Nice try, but not the same argument. The equivalent to England footballers in the EPL would be American basketballers in the NBA (which you called "a good league.")

Canadians have the easiest access to the NBA of any nation, due to ready access to NCAA.

Geez, all these dumbass excuses to replace just winning. Just medal. Anything. Then boast. Such big headedness, it's delusional.

I've been watching Canada play since at least the LA Olympics, we have barely built anything since then (in men). But I'll be thrilled when we do.

[Mattd97]

5 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Canadians have the easiest access to the NBA of any nation, due to ready access to NCAA.

Geez, all these dumbass excuses to replace just winning. Just medal. Anything. Then boast. Such big headedness, it's delusional.

I've been watching Canada play since at least the LA Olympics, we have barely built anything since then (in men). But I'll be thrilled when we do.

still lost on you that the argument isnt that the mens senior basketball team isnt what were saying is a good team but whatever, do you.  Serge Ibaka being on the spanish national team is clearly proof that spain is good at basketball.

 

also enjoy the pov that "reasons Im wrong" = "excuses"

Edited November 17, 2022 by Mattd97

[Meepmeep]

11 minutes ago, jonovision said:

Has Canada ever had a decent result at any international tournament?

It's coming at a Senior level.

We won the u19 World Championships in 2017.  We won Bronze in 2021.   We are the first Americas team to qualify for the next Sr World Cup.  Now that we have a committed core of NBA players we will qualify for Paris 2024 and be a medal contender.

Oh and Basketball Canada was able to launch a Men's developmental entry league (CEBL) independently.

Not to mention that you can watch the National teams'   (Men and women) games on regular cable.

 

That's the Men's side.  For the Women they make Olympics regularly and just finished 4th in the latest World Cup a few months ago.

The Women's talent pool is growing as quickly as the Men's is, although it's a few years behind.  There are over 120 young Canadian women playing Div 1 ball this year, including key players on top teams like UCONN and SC.   We have high schoolers ranked in the top 15 of their class who are being recruited by everyone.

We came 4th in the latest u17 World cup and 5th in the u19 World cup this summer.

We are getting a WNBA pre-season game next spring in Toronto and are top of the list for the next round of expansion teams. 

 

In 3X3 our Women's team is one of if not the top team in the world.  We have the top rated 3X3 player in the world.

 

We're doing well as a basketball country considering it is a global game and we're trending upwards.  IMO  Orgs like the CSA and Rugby Canada etc would be smart to try and learn from Basketball Canada.  

 

 

But hey...this is the Staq thread. 

[Corazon]

International basketball is quite a difference compared to Soccer.  Talent wise, we are the 2nd best country in the world but European and South American teams perform quite well in international tournaments.  It is a bit of a different game and than the NBA and many countries have the benefit of familiarity.  Something we complained about here as Canadian footy fans as we did not schedule friendlies for years.

I love the Canada at the Olympics comparison.

Canada Basketball has done a great job in recent years with management and with recruiting.  If our best players continue to commit, we will be a top 5 team in the world in 5 to 10 years.  We do need some big men.  It seems to be our achilles heel like our defense for footy.

[RS]

5 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Canadians have the easiest access to the NBA of any nation, due to ready access to NCAA.

So? You think NBA teams are just handing out contracts to Canadians due to some ill-placed neighbourly altruism? Even highly rated NCAA players need to prove their worth in what is, by far, the best basketball league in the world.

Just ask Anthony Bennett.

[Unnamed Trialist]

25 minutes ago, Mattd97 said:

still lost on you that the argument isnt that the mens senior basketball team isnt what were saying is a good team but whatever, do you.  Serge Ibaka being on the spanish national team is clearly proof that spain is good at basketball.

 

also enjoy the pov that "reasons Im wrong" = "excuses"

No, Spain being current World Champions, again, and winning the Euros without any of the WC core and post Gasols, and having quite a few Olympic medals, is why it's possible to say, without getting laughed at, that Spain is good at basketball.

Also has a superb coach.

Ibaka, has been years since he went.

I don't understand why being so cautious and hard on ourselves in soccer there are so many flighty guys here radically overstating Canadian basketball then digging in their heels despite  our historical lack of ability to do much.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[SpursFlu]

There is some truth to the NBA thing being more accessible to Canadians but it's also style of play and age. An NBA team is not going to have a 28 yr old 6'6 scorer sitting at the end of their bench even though he has way more talent than the 24 yr old 6'10 super disruptive player sitting at the end of every NBA bench. Euro League basketball is way closer to NBA than MLS to epl. NBA basketball has all the bells and whistles and the top top talent but at times it's pretty crappy basketball. 

Edited November 17, 2022 by SpursFlu

[Mattd97]

1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

No, Spain being current World Champions, again, and winning the Euros without any of the WC core and post Gasols, and having quite a few Olympic medals, is why it's possible to say, without getting laughed at, that Spain is good at basketball.

Also has a superb coach.

I don't understand why being so cautious and hard on ourselves in soccer there are so many flighty guys here radically overstating Canadian basketball then digging in their heels despite  our historical lack of ability to do much.

youre still refusing to accept that a country's ability is not limited to their mens senior team. im not sure if its because you know youre wrong or you like arguing or youre bored or what.  you just keep repeating the same red herring ad nauseam. i guess it ends there, you will only admit a country is good at something if their senior mens team has results. all the rest of us morons have made it clear how thats not the only measuring stick were using.  

[Sal333]

This thread should teach Eustaquio not to make controversial statements like Canada is good at hockey and basketball.

[Unnamed Trialist]

29 minutes ago, RS said:

So? You think NBA teams are just handing out contracts to Canadians due to some ill-placed neighbourly altruism? Even highly rated NCAA players need to prove their worth in what is, by far, the best basketball league in the world.

Just ask Anthony Bennett.

Rudi really, this misplaced fanboy mentality is a joke, don't know why you insist. No country has it easier to get players into draftable positions after the US, it's a fact. I have a buddy I've known from literally elementary school who coached high school in BC and regularly sent guys into Division One programmes, including Gonzaga.

A kid from Lithuania doesn't have a tiny fraction of the same chances to make an NBA draft.

[InglewoodJack]

45 minutes ago, RS said:

Yes. And Canada's men, when their better/best players actually care to show up, are a good basketball team. Even the B/C team is proving to be better than their equivalents from around the Americas with their undefeated run.

Canada proved in August that their best can compete, when they easily handled world No. 3 Argentina in a World Cup qualifier. Now, like the men's soccer team, Canada needs to show its worth in the World Cup.

The Canadian basketballers have a much better chance of doing so, to be honest.

Absolutely, and I'd gladly eat crow if our best flamed out of the World Cup. But unlike Canada Basketball, our soccer team isn't a sleeping giant who is finally putting everything together with a motivated group- we're just a team that steadily improved with the pieces we have, and are now playing in the world cup.

 

42 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Canadians have the easiest access to the NBA of any nation, due to ready access to NCAA.

Geez, all these dumbass excuses to replace just winning. Just medal. Anything. Then boast. Such big headedness, it's delusional.

I've been watching Canada play since at least the LA Olympics, we have barely built anything since then (in men). But I'll be thrilled when we do.

Nonsense. Slovenian Luka Doncic was the #3 overall pick and was already extremely known by every single team for his work with Real Madrid. Joel Embiid went from not playing basketball and living in Cameroon to getting a scholarship to Kansas and being a lottery pick in 5 years. Giannis was a first rounder plucked out of greek obscurity. Last year, Jonathan Kuminga (Congo), Josh Giddey (Aus), Franz Wagner (Germany) were all drafted before the first Canadian, now-former nba player Josh Primo. 4 international players have won the Naismith player of the year award- Bogut from AUS, Ewing from Jamaica, Buddy Hield from Bahams, and Oscar Tshiebwe from Congo. NCAA scouts Africa and Europe pretty solidly.

[Onelessstar]

7 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Rudi really, this misplaced fanboy mentality is a joke, don't know why you insist. No country has it easier to get players into draftable positions after the US, it's a fact. I have a buddy I've known from literally elementary school who coached high school in BC and regularly sent guys into Division One programmes, including Gonzaga.

A kid from Lithuania doesn't have a tiny fraction of the same chances to make an NBA draft.

Just take the loss and move on.😉

Edited November 17, 2022 by Onelessstar
Emoji added in effort to lower the tension

[InglewoodJack]

8 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Rudi really, this misplaced fanboy mentality is a joke, don't know why you insist. No country has it easier to get players into draftable positions after the US, it's a fact. I have a buddy I've known from literally elementary school who coached high school in BC and regularly sent guys into Division One programmes, including Gonzaga.

A kid from Lithuania doesn't have a tiny fraction of the same chances to make an NBA draft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonas_Valančiūnas

[Unnamed Trialist]

52 minutes ago, Meepmeep said:

It's coming at a Senior level.

We won the u19 World Championships in 2017.  We won Bronze in 2021.   We are the first Americas team to qualify for the next Sr World Cup.  Now that we have a committed core of NBA players we will qualify for Paris 2024 and be a medal contender.

Oh and Basketball Canada was able to launch a Men's developmental entry league (CEBL) independently.

Not to mention that you can watch the National teams'   (Men and women) games on regular cable.

 

That's the Men's side.  For the Women they make Olympics regularly and just finished 4th in the latest World Cup a few months ago.

The Women's talent pool is growing as quickly as the Men's is, although it's a few years behind.  There are over 120 young Canadian women playing Div 1 ball this year, including key players on top teams like UCONN and SC.   We have high schoolers ranked in the top 15 of their class who are being recruited by everyone.

We came 4th in the latest u17 World cup and 5th in the u19 World cup this summer.

We are getting a WNBA pre-season game next spring in Toronto and are top of the list for the next round of expansion teams. 

 

In 3X3 our Women's team is one of if not the top team in the world.  We have the top rated 3X3 player in the world.

 

We're doing well as a basketball country considering it is a global game and we're trending upwards.  IMO  Orgs like the CSA and Rugby Canada etc would be smart to try and learn from Basketball Canada.  

 

 

But hey...this is the Staq thread. 

Very good analysis, this is at least a serious assessment. I don't agree with the last bit about learning from Basketball Canada, after decades if inability to get our guys to commit to the national team. But everything else, impeccable. We even had great performances this last Americas tournament from CEBL guys, however much some here have mocked it: CEBL helped Canada to qualify, with a crucial piece or two, more than the CPL (edited!) helped the soccer team to qualify.

It's obvious that if we could harness the talent we'd have a chance to contend. We'd still have to learn to play FIBA which even the US guys find a challenge. Obviously Canada should have been qualifying always, and getting into the last 8 at least, based on talent. But our objective record when it counts, as a team, is dismal.

Getting pleasure as a Canadian from a guy who won't commit and boasting about it? It's like hearing those guys a decade ago boasting about Hargreaves as Canadian because they were Manchester United fans, just as unsavoury.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[MM3/MM2/MM]

31 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

This thread should teach Eustaquio not to make controversial statements like Canada is good at hockey and basketball.

@Kent warning:  this thread has gone way off topic.

Edited November 17, 2022 by MM3/MM2/MM

[Unnamed Trialist]

Just now, MM3/MM2/MM said:

Kent warning:  this thread has gone way off topic.

It's Eustaquio's fault for saying we're good at something when he really meant the Raptors.