CPL General

[matty]

1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

A cynic might even suggest that is all still very much an ongoing call for investors. Nothing wrong with that as you need to get the word out somehow, but there is a limit on how long it can drag on for. I suspect they have another year or so before the 60-90 day routine wears thin for the people that actually matter in terms of writing all the cheques and approving the sanctioning. If they can't get it launched by spring 2019 then some of the fundamental assumptions on how to proceed would no doubt be re-examined because they would be holed beneath the waterline in credibility terms by that point. Looks like they have a reasonable shot at it, if Edmonton is about to fall neatly into place for them.

We're already pissed and if FCE were pushing for 2018 I suspect they have less.

If they can't get their shit together for April or May 2019 then let TFC2 in and suck it up.

[matty]

1 minute ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Maybe, but they'll still be obligated to have some sort of USL operation. I'd rather see the best Whitecaps prospects playing their home games somewhere in BC or Alberta rather than in Fresno when they get their first pro contract.

I suspect that they'll maintain their USL partnerships and use CPL for more advanced players. Even if CPL teams are 15 L1O and PQSL guys, 6 lower Caribbean international players or NASL level Americans and 4 CanMNT players and Canadian NASL level guys it would still be a good development spot for a player in his early to mid 20s.

[harrycoyster]

16 minutes ago, matty said:

I suspect that they'll maintain their USL partnerships and use CPL for more advanced players. Even if CPL teams are 15 L1O and PQSL guys, 6 lower Caribbean international players or NASL level Americans and 4 CanMNT players and Canadian NASL level guys it would still be a good development spot for a player in his early to mid 20s.

The point of the Caps development shake up is to avoid getting players stuck at the USL level. The Caps literally sent their development staff down to Dallas to learn the model, so I wouldn't bet on them being heavily involved in USL/CPL going forward. 

[matty]

3 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

The point of the Caps development shake up is to avoid getting players stuck at the USL level. The Caps literally sent their development staff down to Dallas to learn the model, so I wouldn't bet on them being heavily involved in USL/CPL going forward. 

I doubt they'll erase their need to developmental loans. Having a USL affiliate will likely remain for U20s and having the CPL there will be useful for fringe guys.

[harrycoyster]

Just now, matty said:

I doubt they'll erase their need to developmental loans. Having a USL affiliate will likely remain for U20s and having the CPL there will be useful for fringe guys.

There will be loans to some extent, but the general idea is to cut more players and focus more on the development of MLS talents.

The system now is: Is the u18 player good enough for the USL roster? Yes -> USL. No -> NCAA/USports/PDL.

The new system is: Is the u18 player good enough for the MLS roster? Yes -> Homegrown contract, practices with first team. No-> NCAA or release.

[Dub Narcotic]

2 hours ago, matty said:

We're already pissed and if FCE were pushing for 2018 I suspect they have less.

If they can't get their shit together for April or May 2019 then let TFC2 in and suck it up.

Or examine having clubs join USL. No anti-Canadian quotas, a well-run league, already has Canadian teams and by 2019 it will have three geographic regions based on a north-south axis, helping greatly with travel costs.

[dyslexic nam]

3 hours ago, matty said:

We're already pissed and if FCE were pushing for 2018 I suspect they have less.

If they can't get their shit together for April or May 2019 then let TFC2 in and suck it up.

I disagree with this.  I have to admit that I don't follow every twitch and burp coming out on CPL central, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the drama and unbearable wait is mostly felt by folks on this site and a small circle of hardcore fans and stakeholders.

There definitely have been some mainstream media articles discussing the league, but it's not like the Canadian population is on the edge of their collective seats anxiously waiting for gameday 1.  If it takes an extra year to get it right, then so be it.  I still fundamentally believe that the negative aspects of full and foundational inclusion of MLS reserve sides in CPL would far outweigh any immediate benefits their participation might bring.  

[matty]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

I disagree with this.  I have to admit that I don't follow every twitch and burp coming out on CPL central, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the drama and unbearable wait is mostly felt by folks on this site and a small circle of hardcore fans and stakeholders.

There definitely have been some mainstream media articles discussing the league, but it's not like the Canadian population is on the edge of their collective seats anxiously waiting for gameday 1.  If it takes an extra year to get it right, then so be it.  I still fundamentally believe that the negative aspects of full and foundational inclusion of MLS reserve sides in CPL would far outweigh any immediate benefits their participation might bring.  

I don't think the public at large is pissed (most don't know about it I think) but on here there has been a sense of disappointment over 2018 being missed and again the rumours of FCE wanting 2018 then powers that be may be getting a little on edge and how long can the Hamilton Spectator publishing articles on the CPL? I'd say their window of good graces is closing with media soon and the nice little articles about the efforts to make the league happen will dry up.

I'm saying the only reason to put TFC2 in this is IF they can't get enough resources together to make 2019 happen. I agree the negatives are massive but if this league can't create a functional league for 2019 after everything that's happened than it needs to accept it needs help.

[dyslexic nam]

I guess I see it differently.  The disappointment and impatience on here is really of no consequence in the grand scheme of things.  We want it done yesterday, but it wasn't and that may bug us but it doesn't really matter.

since the story has started getting more inertia and things actually started happening, I have heard 2 possibilities tossed around for launch: a soft half-season in 2018 and/or a full season in 2019.  Lots on here didn't want the first option anyway, so 2019 was realistically the target for many.  Missing that window would suck, but I don't think it is cause to rewrite the business plan and settle for a compromised vision of the league.  I imagine founding a national pro league (from scratch) has lots of moving parts, and that it wouldn't be shocking if there are some unanticipated delays and setbacks along the way - especially when municipalities and government officials are involved.  

I would rather it be done right than quickly.

[matty]

4 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I guess I see it differently.  The disappointment and impatience on here is really of no consequence in the grand scheme of things.  We want it done yesterday, but it wasn't and that may bug us but it doesn't really matter.

since the story has started getting more inertia and things actually started happening, I have heard 2 possibilities tossed around for launch: a soft half-season in 2018 and/or a full season in 2019.  Lots on here didn't want the first option anyway, so 2019 was realistically the target for many.  Missing that window would suck, but I don't think it is cause to rewrite the business plan and settle for a compromised vision of the league.  I imagine founding a national pro league (from scratch) has lots of moving parts, and that it wouldn't be shocking if there are some unanticipated delays and setbacks along the way - especially when municipalities and government officials are involved.  

I would rather it be done right than quickly.

I understand and mostly agree but fear if the league is not ready for its (somewhat self-imposed) proposed launch window of 2018/19 then a review of what they're doing should be done and if the issue is finding ownership that's able to support a team long term then a compromise may be needed.

While the league needs time to get itself as close to perfect as it can be, factors outside of it, such as the 2026 World Cup, do limit the window it has to really be effective on Canadian soccer in the way it hopes to be. 2019 seems on track (Hamilton, Winnipeg, Halifax, Saskatoon, Surrey and Edmonton gives you six) but if there are more delays setting it back to 2020 or 2021 something needs to be done to get the league going and players playing.

I want to say, a constant struggle to get the league going that causes heavy delays to a launch is the only situation I could support the CPL being the official development league to MLS. If it's avoidable then it shouldn't happen.

Edited November 7, 2017 by matty

[Macksam]

 

On 2017-11-04 at 11:42 AM, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

They'll probably appeal to a higher court and will definitely finish out their 2017 season, but this puts a huge question mark over their future for 2018. Some teams will probably fold or defect now even if they do appeal rather than risk playing at D3 level in a league that may be in its final death spiral. If there's a lesson to be learned for new leagues it is to keep control of wages and not allow rich egomaniacs to price out all the competition by spending more than they can afford to keep pace with. Two incarnations of the Cosmos have destabilized two incarnations of the NASL in that manner.

Rich egomaniacs didn’t destroy this version of NASL, poor vetting of ownership is. Having fly by night operations and owners that have their eye on MLS into the league was never going to work. They needed to vet for people that believed in the league’s vision and had ambition to build the club in said league like FC Edmonton. 

On 2017-11-05 at 5:29 AM, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Just over a decade back I was sitting in Shoeless Joe's chatting with Paul Beirne at one of the early TFC fan group meetings and we had wildly differing takes on what the core demographic was at the event. He saw mainly a younger generation of Canadian kids drawn to soccer, which was definitely true but I didn't think was the whole story, because I saw mainly but by no means exclusively first and second generation immigrants looking for a team of their own to support live in the way their families had overseas. Fast forward ten years and my take on things is clearly not what is happening in Atlanta and Cincinnatti at the moment, because a younger generation of sports fans with no prior deep soccer loyalty has embraced those teams to a significant extent. 

Well, with regards to TFC,  I saw what Paul saw and currently sees today. Your “observations” about first and second generation immigrants from soccer loving driving the fan bases of the three MLS teams is really off the mark. Please stop embarrassing yourself. 

16 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Think he is missing the point that playing time in a competitive sport is something you earn and isn't something you are given. 

You’re right, MLS should get rid of the roster rules so the league can rid itself of so many crappy American journeymen in the league.

13 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The reason that Osorio, Ricketts and Edwards didn't make TFC's starting XI is that they are marginal talents in MLS terms, not because they are Canadian. 

Yes, Raheem Edwards is a marginal talent...a player who was argubly one of TFC’s best players the first 10-15 games of the season and has more technical ability than  most other HG’s combined. Yeah, he’s a marginal talent....?

12 hours ago, Kent said:

For Osorio, that's arguable, for Ricketts it's true, but I think it's harsh to call Edwards a marginal talent in MLS terms. He is just unlucky to be stuck behind the best left back/wingback in the league. Morrow is one of 3 nominees for defender of the year. Edwards has been phenomenal when he has played.

I think you’ll find most soccer forums have people on there that know little to nothing about the sport.

Edited November 7, 2017 by Macksam

[MtlMario]

7 hours ago, matty said:

I understand and mostly agree but fear if the league is not ready for its (somewhat self-imposed) proposed launch window of 2018/19 then a review of what they're doing should be done and if the issue is finding ownership that's able to support a team long term then a compromise may be needed.

While the league needs time to get itself as close to perfect as it can be, factors outside of it, such as the 2026 World Cup, do limit the window it has to really be effective on Canadian soccer in the way it hopes to be. 2019 seems on track (Hamilton, Winnipeg, Halifax, Saskatoon, Surrey and Edmonton gives you six) but if there are more delays setting it back to 2020 or 2021 something needs to be done to get the league going and players playing.

I want to say, a constant struggle to get the league going that causes heavy delays to a launch is the only situation I could support the CPL being the official development league to MLS. If it's avoidable then it shouldn't happen.

If CPL can't find 6 teams to start by 2019 without TFC2, we are in worse shape than I thought.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

It's six to launch plus two more in the pipeline (meaning 8 markets rather than 6 in total). From what we've been told only 4 of the 10 markets that are expected to get there eventually by PB have a stadium in place, which probably includes FC Edmonton and the Ottawa Fury, who may or may not be fully on board with the whole thing, and definitely includes the 2 confirmed founding franchises in Hamilton and Winnipeg. Beyond those 4 there are Surrey, Saskatoon, K/W and Halifax that have publicly talked about building something and 2 more that are probably not so far along and may or may not include Calgary, the suburban GTA or Quebec City. A lot needs to unfold over the next year or so on municipal approvals for pop-up and modular stadium builds for 2019 to get the green light and several groups need to follow through on their rhetoric and show their willingness to spend well into low seven figures before a ball even gets kicked in anger. Potentially doable from what we know so far, but no slam dunk. Life was easier for a fledgling pro soccer league like the CSL to find viable places to play back in the mid-80s when university and high school type football stadia still tended to have natural grass rather than marked fieldturf.

Edited November 7, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Ansem]

I think we should all take a breather and just wait for that 1st press conference.  I'll judge CPL based on whatever comes from that one.

Sometimes, no news=good news . Usually leaks tend to occur when things go south as keeping pissed off people quiet is much more harder...right?

[matty]

31 minutes ago, Ansem said:

I think we should all take a breather and just wait for that 1st press conference.

But then how would we be annoying on the interweb? This is like the safest avenue to do so in 2017

[matty]

2 hours ago, MtlMario said:

If CPL can't find 6 teams to start by 2019 without TFC2, we are in worse shape than I thought.

I agree.

2 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

.... Beyond those 4 there are Surrey, Saskatoon, K/W and Halifax that have publicly talked about building something and 2 more that are probably not so far along and may or may not include Calgary, the suburban GTA or Quebec City.

I agree most everything else here but feel we should move Halifax out of this maybe spot. They seem approved and waiting to make it official.

I'd also say Calgary is likely closer than we think given leaks.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Still not clear what impact the amendments that were made by the city council have had and why the Soccer Nova Scotia event didn't happen in September. Until shovels hit the dirt and concrete starts being poured nothing is really certain on these things.

[matty]

3 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Still not clear what impact the amendments that were made by the city council have had and why the Soccer Nova Scotia event didn't happen in September. Until shovels hit the dirt and concrete starts being poured nothing is really certain on these things.

Fair enough but they're well beyond other parties.

[BuzzAndSting]

I'm a RedBlacks season ticket holder and I emailed my representative expressing my desire for the Ottawa Fury to move to the newly formed CPL and I committed to buying season tickets if this happened. He replied that the Fury will be returning to the USL for the upcoming season and he would gladly help me with tickets for that.

I was still holding out a small amount of hope for a 2018 launch with Ottawa, Edmonton, Hamilton, Winnipeg along with two others but I can't see the Fury pushing tickets for USL games this early if there was any chance they were moving in 2018.

[lazlo_80]

59 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

I'm a RedBlacks season ticket holder and I emailed my representative expressing my desire for the Ottawa Fury to move to the newly formed CPL and I committed to buying season tickets if this happened. He replied that the Fury will be returning to the USL for the upcoming season and he would gladly help me with tickets for that.

I was still holding out a small amount of hope for a 2018 launch with Ottawa, Edmonton, Hamilton, Winnipeg along with two others but I can't see the Fury pushing tickets for USL games this early if there was any chance they were moving in 2018.

Meh. I could. They call you back and say "hey we're playing in the CPL now, you still want the tickets?"

The decision makers aren't going to tell the ding dongs selling tickets to starting selling CPL tickets until its 100% confirmed. Until then they just keep things business as usual to make sure they get as many season ticket holders as possible for next season.

[BuzzAndSting]

Just now, lazlo_80 said:

Meh. I could. They call you back and say "hey we're playing in the CPL now, you still want the tickets?"

The decision makers aren't going to tell the ding dongs selling tickets to starting selling CPL tickets until its 100% confirmed. Until then they just keep things business as usual to make sure they get as many season ticket holders as possible for next season.

I don't think you read my post correctly. My point is that they wouldn't be selling Fury tickets for USL games if there was a chance they weren't playing in the USL, for many obvious reasons. They would do exactly what they did when they moved from NASL to USL, take season ticket commitments without mentioning the league. They would simply sell the tickets as "Fury Season Tickets for 2018."

And of course they wouldn't be selling CPL tickets until is 100% confirmed, which is exactly why them selling USL tickets means that them being in the USL for 2018 is most likely 100% confirmed!

[lazlo_80]

13 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

I don't think you read my post correctly. My point is that they wouldn't be selling Fury tickets for USL games if there was a chance they weren't playing in the USL, for many obvious reasons. They would do exactly what they did when they moved from NASL to USL, take season ticket commitments without mentioning the league. They would simply sell the tickets as "Fury Season Tickets for 2018."

And of course they wouldn't be selling CPL tickets until is 100% confirmed, which is exactly why them selling USL tickets means that them being in the USL for 2018 is most likely 100% confirmed!

no i understood. i just disagreed.

[Rheo]

Rollins is tweeting he has some CanPL news on today's Soccer Today.  Started at ten live.  Streaming live now and will be up here after if anyone is interested

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1XTTehckvHGtr1OXC9Bs6g

[Rheo]

Here's the news, nothing too shocking 

 

[Ansem]

wise decision. CPL can use all of 2018 to hype the league. Up the ante after Russia 2018.