CPL General

[Kent]

7 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Wow you should roll that all up in to an Argentinian chant. So now people not born here can't consider themselves Canadian? You've hit a new desperate low in your trolling. Only people born here can be Canadians and can like baseball, football and hockey. Ok David Duke whatever you say

I don't think that's what Ozzie was saying at all. MtlMario was the one being less inclusive of dual nationals, not Ozzie. Ozzie was opposing MtlMario's opinion.

 

2 hours ago, MtlMario said:

I do not think the CPL is there to develop players for other countries.

It's not the purpose, but it is a side effect. Lots of CPL players have gone on to play for non-Canadian national teams. With what you are suggesting you could have a player that is considered domestic at the start of the season, then all of a sudden part way through the season your roster is non-compliant because they accepted a call up to another national team.

[RS]

19 hours ago, Bison44 said:

What mystery??  Herdmans kid has done nothing but play for New Zealand for the last few years.  I know the rules are pretty fast and loose, but it doesnt seem right he is a domestic.  Especially when he just finished up repping NZ at the olympics...hense 1 guys sad emoji i guess.  

18 hours ago, MtlMario said:

Thanks for noticing. A domestic should be able to play for OUR national team in case you do not know what domestic means.

And of course it does not seem to bother you at all that he's taking a roster spot of a real domestic player.

 

Anyone holding permanent residence or citizenship cannot legally be defined as anything but domestic from a labour law perspective.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

31 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Wow you should roll that all up in to an Argentinian chant. So now people not born here can't consider themselves Canadian? You've hit a new desperate low in your trolling. Only people born here can be Canadians and can like baseball, football and hockey. Ok David Duke whatever you say

^^^what on earth is this guy even gibbering about? Sums this subforum up basically that the meaning of my post could be so ludicrously distorted.

I wasn't born in Canada and I am now Canadian ("consider" doesn't come into it since it is a fact legally) because I became a citizen just like Jay Herdman clearly did given he played for the U-20 team. It is outrageous that MtlMario is suggesting that Jay Herdman should not be a domestic player. I have a close relative who is still on PR status after over 55 years of living in Canada. It is a legal fact that he is still British by nationality and not Canadian. That sort of scenario applies to around 10% of the population and here's a newsflash for you many of them are soccer fans. A slogan that CanPL was using a lot at launch could be read as implying that the league wasn't meant to be for them.

Edited Tuesday at 03:42 PM by Ozzie_the_parrot

[RS]

14 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Wow you should roll that all up in to an Argentinian chant. So now people not born here can't consider themselves Canadian? You've hit a new desperate low in your trolling. Only people born here can be Canadians and can like baseball, football and hockey. Ok David Duke whatever you say

JFC you're stupid.

[Mihairokov]

46 minutes ago, Kent said:

It's not the purpose, but it is a side effect. Lots of CPL players have gone on to play for non-Canadian national team

I'm totally fine with CPL raising the level of quality in Concacaf if Caribbean players are able to play consistent minutes at a higher quality than they would find in T&T or Antigua or wherever else. I don't really see Telfer or Ramparsad "stealing" away minutes from Canadian domestics, especially those who are younger. They're overall better for the league as long as their numbers are not overwhelming compared to domestics.

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

^^^what on earth is this guy even gibbering about? Sums this subforum up basically that the meaning of my post could be so ludicrously distorted.

I wasn't born in Canada and I am now Canadian ("consider" doesn't come into it since it is a fact legally) because I became a citizen just like Jay Herdman clearly did given he played for the U-20 team. It is outrageous that MtlMario is suggesting that Jay Herdman should not be a domestic player. I have a close relative who is still on PR status after over 55 years of living in Canada. It is a legal fact that he is still British by nationality and not Canadian. That sort of scenario applies to around 10% of the population and here's a newsflash for you many of them are soccer fans. A slogan that CanPL was using a lot at launch could be read as implying that the league wasn't meant to be for them.

You're the one that interpreted that the slogan meant the league wasn't for you if you weren't born in Canada. Now you're projecting that on to other people who you believe have the same perspective. I think I've heard you talking about "hockey guys" picking on you because as a kid you liked soccer and had a funny accent. Maybe you're just expressing that resentment. By the way all sorts of Canadians like hockey, baseball and football. And guess what? Since it's not 1981, people born and raised in Canada like soccer

And on top of all that. I don't believe in unsavory people. If I don't agree with a perspective I don't act like that person shouldn't be around or go somewhere else. I see it as an opportunity to improve someone. You should know that by our interactions

Edited Tuesday at 04:29 PM by SpursFlu

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

^^^will now go back to ignoring this guys posts.

[SpursFlu]

23 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

^^^will now go back to ignoring this guys posts.

No you won't and no you haven't 

[shermanator]

Anyone who's actually spent time at a CPL game knows damn well that there are people born all over the world at the games. Not one person is looking at that slogan and thinking "Fuck, guess I can't go to a CPL game".

[Aird25]

1 hour ago, shermanator said:

Anyone who's actually spent time at a CPL game knows damn well that there are people born all over the world at the games. Not one person is looking at that slogan and thinking "Fuck, guess I can't go to a CPL game".

You don't even have to go to the games to know that. Just read the leagues About Us which makes it very obvious what their use of the slogan means

https://canpl.ca/about-us/

[masster]

4 hours ago, RS said:

Anyone holding permanent residence or citizenship cannot legally be defined as anything but domestic from a labour law perspective.

But isn't that how it is done in the Canadian Championship? The CSA had said that you needed to be eligible to represent the Canadian national team in order to count as one of the 3 domestic players that need to start. I seem to recall that Akinola was not originally considered domestic in the tournament.

[RS]

3 minutes ago, masster said:

But isn't that how it is done in the Canadian Championship? The CSA had said that you needed to be eligible to represent the Canadian national team in order to count as one of the 3 domestic players that need to start. I seem to recall that Akinola was not originally considered domestic in the tournament.

Correct.

But Ryan Telfer is considered domestic in the CPL because it's the primary competition he's employed for, whereas in the Canadian Championship he doesn't count towards the domestic player quota. At least that's how I understand it.

Same would go for Malcolm Shaw or any other Canadian-born or citizenship/PR-holding player who reps another country.

[masster]

So why is it allowed in the Canadian Championship and not the CPL if that is the route they wanted to go down?

[Bison44]

More and more I understand the sad emogy on the original post.  He would be domestic most of the time until he isnt.....got it now....... 😑

[RS]

4 minutes ago, masster said:

So why is it allowed in the Canadian Championship and not the CPL if that is the route they wanted to go down?

As  I understand it, it's because the CPL is the primary competition. It's what the player is primarily hired (and paid) for, so that's why the Canadian labour laws would kick in.

If Babouli and Baldisimo weren't Canadian citizens, York would be over the seven-player international limit. But for the CPL's purposes they are Canadian, even if FIFA considers them Syrian and Filipino, respectively.

[Kent]

I'm not sure I buy the labour law excuse, just like I didn't buy it for MLS regarding Canadians as domestics on American teams. They used that excuse for years, then the CPL came along (and Victor Montagliani if I remember correctly) which put a bit of pressure on them and suddenly I guess American labour laws were OK with Canadian players being counted as domestics as long as they played for an MLS academy or other un-named clubs or whatever the convoluted/opaque rules ended up being.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Perhaps worth noting that it's MLS that is being targeted by the extra regulation in the Canadian Championship rather than CanPL. It's related to addressing the differences in the domestic roster content rules between the two leagues, which would make it possible for an MLS side to start a game with no domestic players, while a CanPL side could not.

The Canadian Championship regulation is a red herring where the question of whether a Canadian such as Jay Herdman (his citizenship is a legal fact and is hence not something that is open for debate) can be actively discriminated against in a Canadian workplace where hiring practices are concerned. If a domestic player rule is being applied everybody with citizenship or PR who is otherwise qualified has to be eligible for it where Canadian employment legislation is concerned.

My understanding of what happens in an MLS context is that Canadian employment legislation doesn't have an issue where preferential treatment for certain groups of non-Canadians is concerned, while the corresponding American legislation does where identifiable groups of non-Americans are concerned. The homegrown player rule gets around that because it is possible for a non-Canadian living in Canada on a temporary visa to go through the process in a Canadian context.

It is interesting to note however that the USL did seem to be able to find a way to draft their roster rules in a way that made it possible for Canadians to count as domestic players across the league. Never been entirely clear to me why MLS were unable to use a similar approach to whatever they were doing. I guess it's possible that USL got away with it because nobody ever bothered to spend the money that would be needed to challenge it while the MLSPA may be willing and able to do that in an MLS context.

Edited yesterday at 12:03 PM by Ozzie_the_parrot

[MtlMario]

22 hours ago, Kent said:

I don't think that's what Ozzie was saying at all. MtlMario was the one being less inclusive of dual nationals, not Ozzie. Ozzie was opposing MtlMario's opinion.

 

 

I strongly disagree of your opinion of me. You do not know me and as a son of an immigrant it would be insulting of me to think that way. Cheers.

[RS]

13 hours ago, Kent said:

I'm not sure I buy the labour law excuse, just like I didn't buy it for MLS regarding Canadians as domestics on American teams. They used that excuse for years, then the CPL came along (and Victor Montagliani if I remember correctly) which put a bit of pressure on them and suddenly I guess American labour laws were OK with Canadian players being counted as domestics as long as they played for an MLS academy or other un-named clubs or whatever the convoluted/opaque rules ended up being.

I don't think you're looking at it the right way — this is different than MLS in that no foreign nationals are given an advantage in this scenario, only Canadians and permanent residents.

I admit that I'm no expert on this, but I've had it explained to me in the past by people working in the field of HR and labour law. It's been quite a while, though.

[Kent]

3 hours ago, MtlMario said:

I strongly disagree of your opinion of me. You do not know me and as a son of an immigrant it would be insulting of me to think that way. Cheers.

I don't think I shared any opinion. I'm talking about this discussion.

MtlMario - believes dual nationals that have represented a non-Canadian national team shouldn't be counted as domestics in the CPL.

OzzieTheParrot - believes any Canadian, regardless of which national team they have played for, should be counted as domestics in the CPL.

Ozzie's opinion includes more dual nationals in the CPL than MtlMario's suggestion. Therefor, MtlMario is being less inclusive of dual nationals. The post I was responding to was making it sound like Ozzie was being less inclusive than you.

That's all I was saying. I wasn't saying you hate immigrants or anything like that.