CPL General

[Ansem]

53 minutes ago, Cblake said:

Do we actually know what the highest CPL salary is?

$77k + applicable bonuses

[Ansem]

Re : Mo Farsi

This is the reality guys -

CPL level players are LEGION around the world and CPL is too young to attract clubs willing to regularly pay transfers fees to move unproven guys to Europe. For a player's perspective, he wants to move up. Cavalry getting a transfer fee or not isn't his problem, rightfully so. It was always going to be easier for him to attract interest on a free transfer than other way around.

 

Mo Farsi made a mistake

That being said, he was free and had clearly stated that he had Europe aspirations and MLS. The type of teams he wanted didn't came, so he signed to Columbus MLSNextPro reserve club because that became his best option outside of CPL.

People can spin this all they want, but he chose wrong in my opinion. Some would say "he could always come back to CPL"... Sure he could, but the money previously offered went DOWN, why? Because he demonstrated that his value wasn't high since no one else came for him... why would the Cavs put the same offer on the table? Why would any club? That's called, overplaying your hand.

I don't buy a second that he was dreaming of MLS to the point of going to MLS Next, a league that hasn't kicked a ball yet and MLS' second try at this venture.

Don't get me wrong, Farsi IS good - not MLS good but clearly had the potential had he taken the time to polish his game. He wanted to go to the next level, not somewhere else to "polish" his game or we're now saying that Wheeldon Jr. can't do that (anyone honest would call BS on that)

That's my opinion - agree with it or not, it's another viable explanation, not just the automatic "panic button" (MLS Next will raid CanPL). Things aren't this black and white.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Ansem

[RS]

On 1/16/2022 at 4:51 PM, Bison44 said:

HAHA, only when Vanney is long gone can Rollins admit he was "very tied" to the american system?? 

The previous (permanent) TFC coach was Chris Armas, not Greg Vanney. 

But Rollins was more than likely referring to Ali Curtis.

[RS]

1 hour ago, Chad_Impact said:

I think we all knew this league wasn't going to be an overnight success but imo that's a move that just can't happen for one of the league's top young talents. 

Hope he can make his way up to the Crew's first-team quickly

If Farsi makes a good impression with Crew 2 it'll draw more attention to CPL from MLS general managers.

All anyone can ask for the league is more attention, from all corners of the world.

[Big_M]

1 hour ago, Cblake said:

Has ever USports draft pick outside of injury like Gardner the one year with Pacific actually joined their team for at least the summer? On the note of these Usport development contracts, how did Gardner end up playing 10 games, thought he could only play 6?

Didnt understand the first question

Theres 2 types of development contracts, the Usports one and the other..no limit on the number of games for the usports dev contract....and those players are not subject to the minimum salary of 22k...according to clanachan they typically get 10-12k...thats why teams have to pay attention to the draft and find out which players can contribute...find that player like metusala who will play 20+ games and only give him 10-12k...a bargain

[Cblake]

34 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Re : Mo Farsi

This is the reality guys -

CPL level players are LEGION around the world and CPL is too young to attract clubs willing to regularly pay transfers fees to move unproven guys to Europe. For a player's perspective, he wants to move up. Cavalry getting a transfer fee or not isn't his problem, rightfully so. It was always going to be easier for him to attract interest on a free transfer than other way around.

 

Mo Farsi made a mistake

That being said, he was free and had clearly stated that he had Europe aspirations and MLS. The type of teams he wanted didn't came, so he signed to Columbus MLSNextPro reserve club because that became his best option outside of CPL.

People can spin this all they want, but he chose wrong in my opinion. Some would say "he could always come back to CPL"... Sure he could, but the money previously offered went DOWN, why? Because he demonstrated that his value wasn't high since no one else came for him... why would the Cavs put the same offer on the table? Why would any club? That's called, overplaying your hand.

I don't buy a second that he was dreaming of MLS to the point of going to MLS Next, a league that hasn't kicked a ball yet and MLS' second try at this venture.

Don't get me wrong, Farsi IS good - not MLS good but clearly had the potential had he taken the time to polish his game. He wanted to go to the next level, not somewhere else to "polish" his game or we're now saying that Wheeldon Jr. can't do that (anyone honest would call BS on that)

That's my opinion - agree with it or not, it's another viable explanation, not just the automatic "panic button" (MLS Next will raid CanPL). Things aren't this black and white.

My question would be has are we at the point where anyone has  ever got a CPL team to up the ante based on a USL offer they also got. Is there any point in that. In the event Farsi returns if he is quality and two teams want him, the offer will still be there.

With a lot of CPL contracts being one year movement is bound to happen between the lower leagues and overseas. What does Europe actually mean, it can mean playing in the Spanish 4th division , Finland, Republic of Ireland. So guys ended up bouncing around from some pretty low level outfits to the next, some carve out a niche doing it.  

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, Cblake said:

My question would be has are we at the point where anyone has  ever got a CPL team to up the ante based on a USL offer they also got. Is there any point in that. In the event Farsi returns if he is quality and two teams want him, the offer will still be there.

With a lot of CPL contracts being one year movement is bound to happen between the lower leagues and overseas. What does Europe actually mean, it can mean playing in the Spanish 4th division , Finland, Republic of Ireland. So guys ended up bouncing around from some pretty low level outfits to the next, some carve out a niche doing it.  

Why would they?

I don't agree often with Wheeler but honestly, no one in CPL is irreplaceable. Cavs are most likely looking at finding a replacement than matching USL offers.

If a team makes you an offer and you walk because your agent and/or the player thinks that they are higher and no one validates that assumption...why on hurt would the Cavs offer the same numbers?

That's negotiation 101.

Cavs are most likely looking for a cheaper replacement. Love the player, but his camp overplayed their hand based on a 1.5 season pro experience.

[Cblake]

1 minute ago, Ansem said:

Why would they?

I don't agree often with Wheeler but honestly, no one in CPL is irreplaceable. Cavs are most likely looking at finding a replacement than matching USL offers.

If a team makes you an offer and you walk because your agent and/or the player thinks that they are higher and no one validates that assumption...why on hurt would the Cavs offer the same numbers?

That's negotiation 101.

Cavs are most likely looking for a cheaper replacement. Love the player, but his camp overplayed their hand based on a 1.5 season pro experience.

If there is an actual other and not an agent blowing smoke , there is no assumption to be made. Yes based on the CPL's current pay structure and where they are at this point, overpaying for player at this level is just dumb , you simply do not need to as they are all replaceable. Before going back and fourth on this, we need some of the facts on what the offers actually were, as I assume he had one from both Calgary and Columbus. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

[Ansem]

26 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

 

I'd say a sign that his agent f'ed up

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

[Aird25]

I feel like Duane is setting fans up for years of disappointment. I don’t think player sales are common at this level. Anywhere in the world. Most players leave on frees and we’re not likely  to change that

Edited January 18, 2022 by Aird25

[Ansem]

CPL can easily counter this by taking more risk and offer longer terms to Canadians they think have the most potential - which they weren't willing to do thus far.

MLS Nextpro won't be doing scouting here, so some club will be looking at the performances/stats of CPL players and wait for their contract to expire. This is where CPL need to be more proactive and take more risk and lock down the good ones longer and re-sign them faster. The good one's value will have increased enough to have attention from Europe on a free transfer. If they have a competent agent and play it right, they are most likely to move abroad then going to MLS reserve league. (Whether CPL gets transfer fees or not is an entirely different discussion entirely)*

*Sucks that guys like Ongaro walks for free but in retrospect, it's still a win for CPL and they can live with that short term. This will just make CPL that much more attractive to domestic talents on top of providing an opportunity to play against MLS clubs (Next pro won't) and compete in CCL (Next Pro won't) --> Talk about raising your value if you do well in those!

Those who don't work out will most likely move to MLSNext for different reasons (pay, career reset, change of scenery, etc...)- doubtful clubs will care and they'll just look for the next undiscovered talent in their search for the next big star.

I expect most MLS Next Pro clubs being too busy raiding the living s--- out of USL before looking north since they have players they'd already know pretty well.

Duane's lack of analysis and oversimplification is appalling for a "so-called" journalist (whatever he thinks he is). Bringing this down essentially to money is amateurish at best, add his passive aggressive CPL tweets and you see that he gets a kick at sticking it to the league whenever he can (more people are catching that too)

Edited January 18, 2022 by Ansem

[Bison44]

But isnt this exactly the kind of thing that CPL pitches to young prospects?  "Sure the wages are low, but you'll get exposure, play a lot and we wont stand in your way when its time to move up"  Why is this a negative thing? If Auwah sticks with Van, Ongaro does well in europe, Farsi can worm his way into MLS, these would all be positive signs for CPL.  And until the league is established enough to routinely have multi year contracts they are going to have plenty of guys leaving on frees.  Just like they get all their INT off frees...its a 2way street eh?  

[Cblake]

3 hours ago, Ansem said:

CPL can easily counter this by taking more risk and offer longer terms to Canadians they think have the most potential - which they weren't willing to do thus far.

MLS Nextpro won't be doing scouting here, so some club will be looking at the performances/stats of CPL players and wait for their contract to expire. This is where CPL need to be more proactive and take more risk and lock down the good ones longer and re-sign them faster. The good one's value will have increased enough to have attention from Europe on a free transfer. If they have a competent agent and play it right, they are most likely to move abroad then going to MLS reserve league. (Whether CPL gets transfer fees or not is an entirely different discussion entirely)*

*Sucks that guys like Ongaro walks for free but in retrospect, it's still a win for CPL and they can live with that short term. This will just make CPL that much more attractive to domestic talents on top of providing an opportunity to play against MLS clubs (Next pro won't) and compete in CCL (Next Pro won't) --> Talk about raising your value if you do well in those!

Those who don't work out will most likely move to MLSNext for different reasons (pay, career reset, change of scenery, etc...)- doubtful clubs will care and they'll just look for the next undiscovered talent in their search for the next big star.

I expect most MLS Next Pro clubs being too busy raiding the living s--- out of USL before looking north since they have players they'd already know pretty well.

Duane's lack of analysis and oversimplification is appalling for a "so-called" journalist (whatever he thinks he is). Bringing this down essentially to money is amateurish at best, add his passive aggressive CPL tweets and you see that he gets a kick at sticking it to the league whenever he can (more people are catching that too)

I will be very curious to see the type of team Vancouver has, will it be a mostly young academy graduates  or will they have a mix of of the kids with some veteran types they sign? Regardless it will expand the pro opportunities for Canadians in this country. There will likely be 20 more Canadians with a pro contract than there were last year. 

[MM3/MM2/MM]

4 hours ago, Ansem said:

CPL can easily counter this by taking more risk and offer longer terms to Canadians they think have the most potential - which they weren't willing to do thus far.

 

York united seems to be the exception, they have signed their young prospects to extended contracts.

[Bison44]

1 hour ago, Cblake said:

I will be very curious to see the type of team Vancouver has, will it be a mostly young academy graduates  or will they have a mix of of the kids with some veteran types they sign? Regardless it will expand the pro opportunities for Canadians in this country. There will likely be 20 more Canadians with a pro contract than there were last year. 

Its hard to say, are the rules set up like the USL affiliate teams where you can call guys up and down as needed?? A lot of this is still pretty murky.  But if Van signs 20 new young CDN from their youth system, I would be impressed.  I would imagine TFC just rolls that squad over to the new league with similar numbers of CDNS under contract.  

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

[Ansem]

I'm always amused at the outrage that CPL is a meritocracy and not a public service.

GOOD players will get paid if you add the additional bonuses not counting against the cap. CPL is competitive enough to be a better choice than MLS Next adding

• Pro minutes + experience to a player's resume
• Opportunity to play against MLS sides and be seen by them directly
• Opportunity to play in Champions League

Don't get me wrong, a lot of improvements needs to be done for player's working conditions and transparency but it's getting so annoying to read apocalypse scenarios on a daily basis.

[shermanator]

People seem to forget that Cavalry picked Farsi off the scrap heap after 5 other CPL clubs declined to bring him in for a trial. Prior to signing with Cavalry he had exactly 0 professional appearances, and after his 2 years he became one of the league's best young prospects, and a member of our U-23 Olympic team. Cavalry not getting a transfer fee should not tarnish the success of this story so far.

So he decided to sign with Crew's reserve team. So what? A few days later and another member of the same U-23 team just left USL Championship to sign with a CPL club. 

The whole fucking point of this league is to give more Canadians the opportunity to play professional soccer, as opposing to their development ending at an early age. And in Farsi's case, mission accomplished. Cavalry gave him a chance and he took it and now he's going to have a professional career when he wouldn't have otherwise.

[Dominic94]

I think we believe there’s a market for all these can PL players when there isn’t, reality is the players and the league have to prove that they’re worth paying for and that’s done through free transfers. Just because the Can PL is D1 Canada doesn’t mean that it’s entitled to transfer fees, until we’re the #3 league talent wise in NA and until we prove we’re above USL champ, we won’t be seeing many fees and not big ones. The players have to prove the league is Atleast at League 2 level or higher before we can start getting consistent fees for players.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Comment on the lateral player movement in CPL, which I admit is a bit disconcerting. It is quite typical in lower division football, but I am talking about what I see here in Spain in 4th tier and lower.

Now normally because players are not fully pro, in lower leagues, they sign to shorter contracts and move around more, but without leaving where they habitually live, as they may have day jobs or similar. So the difference is we are seeing this with full pros, and they are often moving to completely different places, there is no clear and obvious regional loyalty. 

Building a team involves risks. The real story is that coming into the 2021 season, after a non-season in 2020 where guys hardly played, it was not easy to properly assess a player for the longer term. And the pandemic probably factored in to those shorter contracts, as clubs were worried. 

Now, coming into 2022, in what should be a more standard season, clubs should have 1-the basis to judge a player's quality based on last season, whether in CPL or not, and 2-be willing to sign to give players stability if they want it, meaning two-year deals minimum. 

I'd be interested to know what Forge is offering the newcomers, is it money or longer contracts? Was Pacific simply not ready to commit to the guys that made them champions (which is pretty poor, if true, must say)?

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Is PLSQ a much lower level? There is no local CanPL team, the number of clubs involved is not as bloated as L1O has become and there's no unsanctioned CSL equivalent in Montreal. The gap in playing standards may not be huge enough to make a loan worth the downside of having players coached by another club rather than in house. Will be interesting to see how they handle this.

 

[K Edgar]

6 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Is PLSQ a much lower level? There is no local CanPL team, the number of clubs involved is not as bloated as L1O has become and there's no unsanctioned CSL equivalent in Montreal. The gap in playing standards may not be huge enough to make a loan worth the downside of having players coached by another club rather than in house. Will be interesting to see how they handle this.

 

Without loans from CFMTL Valour FC won't have a Goalie?!?