CPL General

[Rheo]

1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Stick to what he actually said in future rather than extrapolating one step beyond it and nobody can reasonably object. They are trying to get things to work in at least ten markets on that there is no argument. What he has said beyond that is that four have stadiums that are ready to go and six would be builders. The two we know about for sure have stadia in place. K/W, Halifax and Saskatchewan teams have named would be investors and would probably be builders. Beyond that remains unclear.

So it's  ok for you to extrapolate and make assumptions when it fits your narrative but when other do....

Pot...kettle....black

Edited August 26, 2017 by Rheo

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Strange stuff when nobody is doubting for a second that moves are underway to try to get things to work in a minimum of ten markets. The main question I have in all of this is whether weasel words are being used so the Ottawa Fury and FC Edmonton can be included as part of the ten before they have actually decided/agreed to switch leagues and if without their stadiums there are only two available for use straight away as is. That would make a crucial difference for how easy it is for this thing to launch.

Edited August 26, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[matty]

2 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Strange stuff when nobody is doubting for a second that moves are underway to try to get things to work in ten markets. The main question I have in all of this is whether weasel words are being used so the Ottawa Fury and FC Edmonton can be included as part of the ten before they have actually decided/agreed to switch leagues and if without their stadiums there are only two available for use straight away as is. That would make a crucial difference for how easy it is for this thing to launch.

The thing is.......the Halifax group would outright have to lie to Halifax's city council to get their stadium if there was nothing in place for those 6 markets.

We've also gone over that when we include you're favourite 2 (KW and Saskatchewan), plus BC bring us to 9.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Just now, matty said:

The thing is.......the Halifax group would outright have to lie to Halifax's city council to get their stadium if there was nothing in place for those 6 markets...

Was it not clarified at the time that it was provided as a list of what could happen or was expected to happen rather than what categorically would happen? Don't think there would have been a lie involved because carefully measured words like that would probably have been used. What followed after that was FC Edmonton denying it was them and the Katz group stating it wasn't on their radar after some had claimed they were the investor instead. What I took from all that was that the CSA and CanPL probably do want FC Edmonton to be in at launch but have not been able to persuade them yet. A few months ago it was reasonable to expect that they would soon have no choice if they wanted to keep playing due to the state of the NASL. Ditto on probably wanting the Ottawa Fury in at launch but it's not so clear cut in their case that they are not actually already on board but simply waiting for all the pieces to be in place in a manner they find acceptable before announcing it to their fans.

[matty]

1 minute ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Was it not clarified at the time that it was provided as a list of what could happen or was expected to happen rather than what categorically would happen? Don't think there would have been a lie involved because carefully measured words like that would probably have been used.

It would have been HIGHLY deceitful to present THAT list if there was a strong possibility 2 or 3 of them (all the ones that are million plus cities) would not be included in the league's early years or were not in serious discussion.

4 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

...What followed after that was FC Edmonton denying it was them and the Katz group stating it wasn't on their radar after some had claimed they were the investor instead.

Yes but doesn't remove a 3rd option.

5 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

....What I took from all that was that the CSA and CanPL probably do want FC Edmonton to be in at launch but have not been able to persuade them yet.

They likely do want them to join but likely have someone else looking at the site. They also likely would like to see a merger.

 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

15 hours ago, matty said:

It would have been HIGHLY deceitful to present THAT list...

The league hadn't even received CSA sanctioning at that point, so they were not in a position to state anything categorically. I don't see anything wrong or deceitful with presenting the best case scenario under those circumstances as long as it is described as such. I wasn't surprised when there were significantly fewer than six confirmed franchises back in May at the CSA AGM, because listening to what was actually being said there were some possible indications from time to time that they needed FC Edmonton and the Ottawa Fury for it to launch quickly and they were unlikely to say anything publicly mid-season. The only major surprise for me back in May was the absence of the Calgary Stampeders and that has yet to be explained as far as I am aware, but it's possible they lost interest when there was no solo bid for 2026 to help fund the CalgaryNext project. Joe Belen being part of the mix subsequently made it clear why it would have been reasonable to include Regina even if the Roughriders were probably never a factor.

They have two for sure and three solid public expressions of interest with named probable investors openly talking about building something and need six to launch with two in the pipeline. If they could get FC Edmonton and the Ottawa Fury to commit it would be tantalizingly close to happening at this point. Without those two they have a solid base to build from as viable stadium solutions are sought and clearly have a very good shot at getting there one way or another given there is still one obvious compromise they could make to add another two at a minimum. I suspect it could easily take another two years for all the ducks to be neatly in a row on this, if the NASL's deck of cards fails to collapse and the Fath brothers stay where they are because it sounds like that compromise is not particularly likely unfortunately, so best for people to relax and be patient as it all slowly unfolds.

Edited August 27, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[matty]

4 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The league hadn't even received CSA sanctioning at that point, so they were not in a position to state anything categorically. I don't see anything wrong or deceitful with presenting the best case scenario under those circumstances as long as it is described as such.

You really don't see how presenting a made up list that might not ever happen to a government to get your stadium approved is deceitful? You don't think saying "hey 3 million plus cities are in it" when in actuality there are no million plus cities even in serious talks is deceitful? If not you're moral compass is greatly flawed.

Flat out presenting such a list with no substance would greatly hurt SEA and the CPL's future relationship with the city of Halifax and make the league look very, very bad.

4 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The only major surprise for me back in May was the absence of the Calgary Stampeders and that has yet to be explained as far as I am aware, but it's possible they lost interest when there was no solo bid for 2026 to help fund the CalgaryNext project.

The joint bid was always on the table and to think the CSA kept that secret from CPL investors is stupid. To assume they lost interest this late in the game is stupid. I do agree the CalgaryNext project has likely caused some delays in Calgary but it's not safe to say the Calgary CPL project is dead for the launch.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Let's agree to disagree on the Halifax ppt presentation. I agree it's not safe to assume that last bit about Calgary, what you were responding was related only to the Stampeders not being accepted into the CSA back in May along with the Ticats and Blue Bombers. Where it gets complicated is PB's 4 stadiums that are ready in the ten markets he expects to get there eventually comment on a podcast a month or two ago. If Hamlton and Winnipeg are #1 and #2 on that, where does that leave a Calgary CFL oriented franchise when two possible scenarios for #3 and #4 are Ottawa and Edmonton if the Fury and FCE are a factor, or Moncton and St John's, Nfld given there have been public statements in those cities about possible interest (albeit only one of them has had a named investor) and they both have stadiums in place that would be easily good enough? One possible explanation is that it could be the Foothills rather than the Stampeders and they would be looking at some type of pop-up.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

On 2017/08/26 at 6:45 PM, matty said:

I'd say GTA is ahead of Quebec City...

The more I think about it the more I think you could be right. Here's a scenario for how they could have launched as soon as next summer if the Hamilton issue hadn't arisen:

#1 Halifax with pop-up approved S|E|A as investor --- builder

#2 Moncton league owned franchise --- stadium in place {slides in if FC Edmonton stick with the NASL}

#3 Ottawa OSEG switch leagues --- stadium in place

#4 GTA Ontario Soccer Centre possibly league owned --- needs some work but team unlikely to draw well

#5 Hamilton run by the Ticats --- stadium in place

#6 Winnipeg run by Blue Bombers --- stadium in place

==============================

in the pipeline as #7 Regina/Saskatoon and #8 K/W who would join once something gets built, get there eventually #9 Calgary Foothills and #10 Fraser Valley.

As things stand Halifax don't have their pop-up build approved, OSEG may not even want in and Hamilton have nowhere to play pending legal issues resolution so 2019 is much more likely.

 

[ironcub14]

For what it's worth, a couple buddies of mine that most of you guys probably know well on twitter and facebook for Fury insight were both optimistic on the Fury joining CPL from the get go and pessimistic on the Eddies to do so, on the CPL Discord group chat we mentioned last week. I know for sure that these two guys would know better than anybody else not connected officially to the Fury.

I'd say that's pretty great news overall, and I would hope that the Faths can be persuaded one way or the other eventually. I think people've said on this thread a number of times that the Eddies supporters are slowly but surely warming up to the idea, and what more financial sense would make to the Faths than their own supporters asking for it?

[ChrisinOrleans]

On 8/26/2017 at 0:45 PM, matty said:

I'd say GTA is ahead of Quebec City.

I've posted at length on the demographic and economic reasoning behind the necessity of a Québec/Lévis franchise, namely; the concentration of corporate headquarters, the size of the market, and the ability to capitalize on Francophone media. In the interest of brevity, I'll not rehash those same arguments. 

I don't believe that the league would be a financial or cultural success without a team in a Francophone market at launch. 

Ultimately, the stated purpose of this league is to give Canadians a domestic alternative to international sporting brands that don't involve or develop our own national products. I fail to see how knowingly excluding a major city due to an inability to understand a large part of the nation - and an entire subset of our own citizenry - would advance that narrative. 

Of course, I'd love to be proven wrong. 

[Complete Homer]

3 minutes ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

I've posted at length on the demographic and economic reasoning behind the necessity of a Québec/Lévis franchise, namely; the concentration of corporate headquarters, the size of the market, and the ability to capitalize on Francophone media. In the interest of brevity, I'll not rehash those same arguments. 

I don't think anyone is debating whether or not QC should get a team asap, it's just that there's been rumours from the beginning that a GTA team was in the mix whereas there has only been passing mention of contact with an interested party somewhere in Quebec, so the assumption is that a GTA team might come about earlier than a QC team.

Though that could definitely be incorrect, we had nothing but passing mention of a Saskatchewan team one week and then a full blown confirmation the next, so no news doesn't necessarily mean much

[Rheo]

I'm not saying Quebec isn't important but if it comes down to launching the league full (whatever that may be) but without a team there or holding the league up, waiting for someone to step up there I say launch away.  Hopefully they'll be there, if not at the beginning then shortly after launch.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

21 minutes ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

I've posted at length on the demographic and economic reasoning behind the necessity of a Québec/Lévis franchise,.... 

What the GTA has going for it under this scenario is a soccer specific stadium of sorts at the OSA Soccer Centre that could easily be expanded a bit to be closer to the size needed for something like this to reach break even with bleacher type seating.

http://insoccer.ca/2015/01/21/osa-toronto-fc-and-vaughan-partner-in-new-stadium/

If they were going to launch as soon as July next year (and that still hasn't been completely ruled out yet as far as I am aware) they needed five stadia plus Halifax that could be used pretty much as is. The Quebec City location doesn't fit the bill on that as I think it has marked fieldturf with a football gridiron.

Edited August 28, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[matty]

49 minutes ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

I've posted at length on the demographic and economic reasoning behind the necessity of a Québec/Lévis franchise, namely; the concentration of corporate headquarters, the size of the market, and the ability to capitalize on Francophone media. In the interest of brevity, I'll not rehash those same arguments. 

I don't believe that the league would be a financial or cultural success without a team in a Francophone market at launch. 

Ultimately, the stated purpose of this league is to give Canadians a domestic alternative to international sporting brands that don't involve or develop our own national products. I fail to see how knowingly excluding a major city due to an inability to understand a large part of the nation - and an entire subset of our own citizenry - would advance that narrative. 

Of course, I'd love to be proven wrong. 

I'm not saying they won't go to Quebec just saying i think they will try to enter yhe gta first. As has been said before, to be major league you need to be in Toronto.

Entering Quebec and B.C. are key but Toronto and the gta should be a priority 

Edited August 28, 2017 by matty

[ironcub14]

This thread is propelled by misunderstandings and agendas, including mine lol.

[ReedOnTheGrand]

On 8/28/2017 at 2:29 PM, ironcub14 said:

This thread is propelled by misunderstandings and agendas, including mine lol.

It's a fan forum at the end of the day. We want what's best for our fandom.

[Rheo]

Interview with Adam Straith with a direct question on CPL https://goo.gl/bjM6Fk

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

On 2017/08/28 at 4:51 PM, ironcub14 said:

For what it's worth, a couple buddies of mine that most of you guys probably know well on twitter and facebook for Fury insight were both optimistic on the Fury joining CPL from the get go and pessimistic on the Eddies to do so, on the CPL Discord group chat we mentioned last week. I know for sure that these two guys would know better than anybody else not connected officially to the Fury....

This guy had his finger on the pulse over the move to USL, so he probably knows what he is talking about on this as well? Being open to something makes a formal expression of interest possible but is not quite as solid as being a would be investor waiting anxiously for the approval from the Hamilton HQ to come through so they can sign on the dotted line.

[Gopherbashi]

It's also the most sensible and practical answer for any organization.  Keep your options open and react to a changing marketplace.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Gopherbashi

[ironcub14]

6 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

This guy had his finger on the pulse over the move to USL, so he probably knows what he is talking about on this as well? Being open to something makes a formal expression of interest possible but is not quite as solid as being a would be investor waiting anxiously for the approval from the Hamilton HQ to come through so they can sign on the dotted line.

Lol there was more on the Discord chat

[ironcub14]

10 hours ago, Rheo said:

Interview with Adam Straith with a direct question on CPL https://goo.gl/bjM6Fk

I thought his answer to the direct question about CPL was something that you could imagine the Fury saying to Beirne/CSA as well, obviously pretty optimistic but also along the same line of thought that Goph just summed up. Just interesting stuff overall.

[Gopherbashi]

In non-CPL news, NASL's D3 league (NISA) announced eight teams who have applied to participate in its inaugural 2018 (Edit: or 2019) season.

Charlotte
Chattanooga FC
Connecticut
Miami United F.C.
Milwaukee
Omaha
Phoenix
St. Louis

http://midfieldpress.com/2017/08/30/milwaukee-omaha-chattanooga-connecticut-headline-the-initial-batch-of-nisa-pro-soccer-applicants/

Edited August 30, 2017 by Gopherbashi

[Rheo]

4 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

In non-CPL news, NASL's D3 league (NISA) announced eight teams who have applied to participate in its inaugural 2018 (Edit: or 2019) season.

Not surprised that Detroit hasn't found an investor yet.  Read the article referenced in there when it came out.  The MLS bid really hurt DCFC with potential investors.  Interesting list though.

[Gopherbashi]

Just now, Rheo said:

Not surprised that Detroit hasn't found an investor yet.  Read the article referenced in there when it came out.  The MLS bid really hurt DCFC with potential investors.  Interesting list though.

The NASL subreddit is doing their best impression of us in how sure they are that DCFC is now moving to NASL.