to70 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 9 minutes ago, mpg_29 said: I don't get why the city would even be fighting this...is there another group in Hamilton looking to put a CPL team in there?...that's the only thing that would make any sense to this... Honestly, would you be dealing with someone that is suing you? Marc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheo Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Update to the Samantha Craggs tweet with the CPL statement, that was supposed to say 10 year exclusive not one. She's covering the council meeting now on Twitter, no soccer talk yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 So the City's argument is that the Ticats only had a year to secure a pro team for the clock to then start ticking down on those ten years, while the Ticats presumably think they still have the exlusive rights until 2025? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maccaliam Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: I suspect some councillors see the financial terms involved as being bad for the City and something voters will not like. What is this all about, for example? http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/ticats-soccer-1.4251801 "I'd like to share numbers with you because I think you'd be surprised," he said of the settlement the city offered the team. "I think the public would be surprised. But I can't talk about them." Interesting that's how you've read that quote. I read it as being the city was surprised by the Ticats not accepting the city's offer to settle and end their court battle, as they felt the deal was very good. ironcub14 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 I'm looking for answers. I don't claim any special insight on what that is all about. This part suggests it is more complicated than having a settlement only between the city and the Ticats: As a result of delays, legal actions were filed, in varying combinations, between the Ticats, the city, Ontario Sports Solutions, the Pan Am organizing committee and Infrastructure Ontario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maccaliam Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 No doubt, and I wasn't assuming/claiming you had any special insight or were proclaiming anything as fact. I simply thought it was interesting you read that quote in one particular way, when I had just read the same quote a very different way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hammer- Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 1 hour ago, to70 said: Honestly, would you be dealing with someone that is suing you? The problem is the Ti-Cats aren't exactly suing the city. Basically the build contract for the stadium (and I think part of the Ti-Cats tenant agreement) states that if there are build and deficiencies with Tim Hortons Field, that legal claims have to flow through the city. Basically that the Ti-Cats acknowledge, the city itself didn't perform the build, Infrastructure Ontario did, so despite the City owning the stadium, they aren't liable because Infrastructure Ontario screwed the pooch. However, because of this, the city has to communicated and go after Infrastructure Ontario for any claims that the Ti-Cats have, which makes sense. Part of the reason it was done this way was because having a giant conga line of lawsuits wasn't going to benefit any parties involved. From there infrastructure Ontario then needs to then go after then actual contractors for any failures in the build, because our provincial government works in mysterious ways with this sort of thing. From my understand Infrastructure Ontario tends to keep a lid on things and often settles these things out of court. Regardless though, one of the city councilors basically went on the radio and said in no uncertain terms, it's a policy that we have in place to try to force parties to settle quicker when engaged in legal issues with the city, but then said "Oh we're just the middleman here though, we're not the ones blocking them." You would think, given the unique legal mechanism they've opted to use here, and that if you didn't want to actually block them, that you'd make an exception to this policy. However, it's very clear the city is basically trying to pressure the Ti-Cats into taking (a likely inferior) settlement to the build failures of Tim Horton's Field and are using this as leverage. Why? I suspect a degree of petty politics and trying to scratch the province's back on this one. ironcub14, GuillermoDelQuarto, gator and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hammer- Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: I suspect some councillors see the financial terms involved as being bad for the City and something voters will not like. What is this all about, for example? http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/ticats-soccer-1.4251801 "I'd like to share numbers with you because I think you'd be surprised," he said of the settlement the city offered the team. "I think the public would be surprised. But I can't talk about them." I would think that the numbers are very high because the team had to tank huge losses due to the stadium being late. They effectively lost 3 games of revenue (I think..might have been 4) playing out of Ron Joyce which only seats 5,000. They also had to give free tickets to season ticket holders because the Ti-Cats have more then 5,000 season ticket holders. Right there, that's likely around 4 million+ in damages due to lost gate and concession revenue alone, even before the PR gestures start up. Then when you consider issues with the sound system, the fact they didn't install the proper beer systems, several seats on the second deck had obstructed views because the build used steel rails instead of the called for Plexiglas, some of the suites were build to smaller then the architectural specifications and most shockingly, insufficient mounting of stadium speakers (which had there been a game on, could have killed someone) and other minor items the Ti-Cats had to tank, it's probably quite high. ironcub14 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 (edited) Definitely looks like the sums involved are a lot more than chump change: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/stadium-lawsuit-continues-1.4180736 The city's claim asked for $35 million in damages for breach of contract, negligence and misrepresentation when it came to the planning, procurement, design, construction, project management and other aspects of the stadium. Of that, $14 million in damage awards would be passed on to the Ticats. Edited August 18, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard ironcub14 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hammer- Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Definitely looks like the sums involved are a lot more than chump change: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/stadium-lawsuit-continues-1.4180736 The city's claim asked for $35 million in damages for breach of contract, negligence and misrepresentation when it came to the planning, procurement, design, construction, project management and other aspects of the stadium. Of that, $14 million in damage awards would be passed on to the Ticats. Absolutely, but I can guarantee you, there is no way the province came back with anything close to $35 million. The province as well is in a budget crisis due to years of fiscal mismanagement and scandals. I'd be surprised if they offered half to be honest. What wouldn't shock me though is if the city is scratching the province's back in some fashion due to the LRT they are about the build in Hamilton, as that has been an equally contentious project and certain councilors keep trying to making populist requests of the province about the LRT in a veiled attempt to kill it (like extending the line possibly running the project over budget, or demanding the HSR run the LRT system, or trying to AGAIN say we need to study it more) but make it seem like it isn't their fault, and the slim majority want to keep it but not stick their necks out, so they are trading political capital. However, all of that is ALL speculation. Edited August 18, 2017 by -Hammer- ironcub14 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Initial B Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 (edited) Well, at least we'll get some round of 32 and round of 16 games before the Quarterfinals occur. I would have liked one of the quarterfinal matches, but by the time you get to the round of 16, there's going to be some major matchups that we'll still get to see. I'd be okay with 2 round-of-16 matches (east and west) and 4 round-of-32 matches (BC, AB, ON, QC). As for the CPL start date, there is a way to soft-start the league in 2018 if not all the clubs are ready: Delay the Voyageurs Cup until after the World Cup is completed and have a 2-leg tournament format including the MLS, USL, NASL, L1O, PLSQ, and what CPL teams exist at that point. It could be like a mini season where teams could get the kinks out of their stadium experience and be better prepared for the full season when it rolls around in 2019. If there were even only 4-5 CPL teams ready for the Championship, that would still allow for a four-round tournament. They could even have some pre-tournament matches to gauge interest. Edited August 18, 2017 by Initial B GuillermoDelQuarto 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Renaissance Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Initial B said: As for the CPL start date, there is a way to soft-start the league in 2018 if not all the clubs are ready: Delay the Voyageurs Cup until after the World Cup is completed and have a 2-leg tournament format including the MLS, USL, NASL, L1O, PLSQ, and what CPL teams exist at that point. It could be like a mini season where teams could get the kinks out of their stadium experience and be better prepared for the full season when it rolls around in 2019. If there were even only 4-5 CPL teams ready for the Championship, that would still allow for a four-round tournament. They could even have some pre-tournament matches to gauge interest. Would love this idea. But I imagine it would be hard to contract any (significant core) players to a team where they would only be guaranteed 2 games that year. And a barebones CPL team that would get slaughtered by an MLS team wouldnt exactly be the greatest first impression for the league either Edited August 18, 2017 by Red Renaissance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 28 minutes ago, -Hammer- said: However, all of that is ALL speculation. Who gets to control future Grey Cup hostings seems to be a possible contentious issue as well given the Ticats felt a need to assert that would still be them (think I saw that recently anyway?) along with the exclusive soccer rights angle and the City also decided not to pursue a bid for that with the Ticats a few months ago while the lawsuits are still active. I suspect there is more money to be made on that on a timeline that local politicians are likely to care about than on a CPL team, so it may be the bigger issue when the two parties are negotiating settlements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 4 hours ago, Rheo said: CPL official response to the Hamilton situation in the story and tweet Interesting that the league now has a publicist according to the article, now at least 4 employees Though it looks like it's as a consultant to Stadium Digital and has had prior CFL work Looks pretty qualified. Spent almost 8 years as TSN's Director of Communications and has a bunch of other big names on his CV. Really liking the level of professionalism they've brought on board or had available because 9f Stadium Digital GuillermoDelQuarto 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hammer- Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 (edited) 40 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Who gets to control future Grey Cup hostings seems to be a possible contentious issue as well given the Ticats felt a need to assert that would still be them (think I saw that recently anyway?) along with the exclusive soccer rights angle and the City also decided not to pursue a bid for that with the Ticats a few months ago while the lawsuits are still active. I suspect there is more money to be made on that on a timeline that local politicians are likely to care about than on a CPL team, so it may be the bigger issue when the two parties are negotiating settlements. Your assertion isn't wholly wrong, but realistically that's par for the course.The Grey Cup simply isn't awarded to a team alone, the league requires that the local government get on board with it, because the league makes the Grey Cup an event and always carries with it a festival. As far as the organization of said festival, usually the local team does the majority of the legwork from my understanding (and tends to handle the majority of the costs but not all of them) but permits still need to be pulled, typically a section of the city needs closing off for festivals and the march, supplying security for the various events, ensuring there is a stronger police presence and usually chipping in on the bid itself. For the most part, the league make sure the city is on board with the festivities and that sudden hiccups (like say, suddenly changing venue locations on team or last minute changes) don't happen. The league very much wants a solid, flawless festival party for its fans and if the bid isn't strong, well put together and shows a united front, they will error on the side of caution and award it to someone else. A lot of that is subject to negotiation, but usually the more the city does, the more they dip into the direct festival profits. The game gate however is almost always owned by the team (apart from facility seat fees if they exist). The point though is that it has to be clear that everyone is on the same page. The league simply won't show up if the local city isn't willing to accommodate the festival. It also won't just award a Grey Cup to a team like the old days. The league doesn't want it to be just a game, but a week long event celebrating the sport. Usually however, the Grey Cup game and festival itself has historically generated millions in economic activity for a local city, often making the costs they often have to deal with worth it. Unlike the Olympics or the World Cup, seldom to Grey Cups leave cities worse off economically. As far as negotiating settlements, who knows? I'd like to think if the Ti-Cats get a chunk of that stadium cash, they are going to put it towards a Grey Cup bid as they generally are money makers for the local team. However, the fact the city is trying to leverage the cats with their legal policy (potentially for political capital no less) and how bad the stadium debate went, one has to question if the team and the city are on the same page enough to have a strong Grey Cup bid. Edited August 18, 2017 by -Hammer- BringBackTheBlizzard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheo Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Nice pull. Never read the updated article with the quote. Wooooo more CPL employees GuillermoDelQuarto and Complete Homer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Initial B said: As for the CPL start date, there is a way to soft-start the league in 2018 if not all the clubs are ready: Delay the Voyageurs Cup until after the World Cup is completed and have a 2-leg tournament format including the MLS, USL, NASL, L1O, PLSQ, and what CPL teams exist at that point. It could be like a mini season where teams could get the kinks out of their stadium experience and be better prepared for the full season when it rolls around in 2019. If there were even only 4-5 CPL teams ready for the Championship, that would still allow for a four-round tournament. They could even have some pre-tournament matches to gauge interest. That would not work at all. You'd be better off (if you have 4-5 teams) playing an 6-8 game mini-season like those leagues did back in the 80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Hopefully there is some substance to this in terms of there being an actual would be ownership group: johnyb, GuillermoDelQuarto, matty and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheo Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Hopefully there is some substance to this in terms of there being an actual would be ownership group: Bio says it's a grassroots group, so I'd assume it's supporter based. Nothing wrong with that though if that is what they are, the more the merrier. ironcub14 and Complete Homer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironcub14 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Sounds like another CPL SG, good stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Hopefully there is some substance to this in terms of there being an actual would be ownership group: Another group coming forward to say they want a team despite lack of resources? A shocking team being officially announced? Another supporters group news article? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 As Rheo says above it looks like a grassroots thing rather than something that FC London are pushing as I suspected from TD Waterhouse being in the avatar as that is unlikely to work well for an April to October fully pro level soccer team for a variety of reasons. https://twitter.com/LondonCanPL Grassroots initiative to bring a Canadian Premier League team to the Forest City. No harm in doing that obviously and hopefully they hit the jackpot and one of the millionaires that are always alleged to be thick on the ground in the London area has their interest piqued by it if they can get some Free Press coverage, but it doesn't do anything significant in terms of getting this league to a position to launch in 2018 or 2019, so nothing to get too excited about where this particular thread is concerned. Rheo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 2 hours ago, ironcub14 said: Sounds like another CPL SG, good stuff! Another SG is nice but eventually we need some more teams. matty and ironcub14 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheo Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 And when they're ready they'll announce more teams lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Rheo said: And when they're ready they'll announce more teams lol The year is 2030, Paulie B takes to the mic Paulie B: Great news everyone! We now have team in Hamilton, Halifax, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Edmonton and Dryden! Kurt Larson: What the fuck is Dryden? Paulie B: It's a city in Ontario.... KL: Never heard of it Steve Milton (looking at his phone): Is it..is it this place with like 8000 people? Paulie B: I have no comment Duane Rollins: God fucking damnit. Why there SM: There seems to be a high school Steve Sandor: Is this real? Paulie B: No comment SS: Is anyone else shocked we're still going in 2030 Bill Manning (popping out from the back): LAMEOS Totz on Twitter: BOOM GREAT NEWS DRYDEN IS GLORIOUS #CanPL TFCREDwhatever also on Twitter: FUCK the lameo #CanPL and feminists Someone here gets pissed at TFCbluerwwijfeff Everyone else has died because it's 2030 and the war in the South China Sea has been raging for years Edited August 21, 2017 by matty Gopherbashi and GuillermoDelQuarto 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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