CPL General

[ironcub14]

12 minutes ago, matty said:

If you compare the two, a short 2018 season or a full 2019 season, for the launch the 2018 comes off better for several reasons including the following
1) Media and casuals will be hotter on it thanks to the World Cup
2) There isn't a Gold Cup taking top Canadians and general players out of the league for the month of June
3) The shorter season allows kinks to be worked out before the larger project is unleashed
4) Will result in better signings due to it's window

All good points, thanks for the points for sure.

My very quick replies to the points would be, I would hope point 3) shouldn't be a factor if this league is going to present itself as a D1 major level league. It really shouldn't be, it would be a bit humbling to say the least for the league if it was a factor.

I think the Gold Cup, point 2), could be negated by a split season, which I think fans are generally in favour of or will come to accept it for a smaller league. I mean, CPL is there to support CanMNT, right?

I'm a bit doubtful on the relative significance of the WC afterglow, point 1), since Canada is not in it. The WC afterglow always translates better to the European leagues. But this is just a subjective view on this matter, and you could definitely be right.

And point 4) is the most interesting one. I would have guessed that the majority of players, Canadian and international, coming to CPL, would be coming from the North and Central American leagues as opposed to the Canadians being repatriated from European leagues and internationals from other leagues on the August-May calendar. Quality vs quantity, better signings maybe in the summer, but would be a bit less on quantity. I'll think a bit more about the points you made.

Edited August 16, 2017 by ironcub14

[MtlMario]

47 minutes ago, ironcub14 said:

Just out of curiosity, I was wondering, those of you who would prefer CPL to launch early or mid 2018, could I do a little quick fun poll with you just to get an idea of what's the main reason you'd like to see it launch 2018? I'm sure it would be a combination of a number of different things, but if you could only choose just one, which one describes you the best?

A)     You want the league to be playing asap, whether in your city or not, can’t wait

B.)     You want it in place for the FIFA 2026 WC bid committee to review

C)      You like the idea of taking advantage of the 2018 WC afterglow

D)     You are going off the fact that Young and PB have always pegged 2018 as their goal for launch

E)      You like round even numbers like 2018 over odd numbers like 2019

F)      You got the V’s shirt and you damn sure aren’t getting another one that says “2019” instead

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[matty]

1 minute ago, ironcub14 said:

All good points, thanks for the points for sure.

My very quick replies to the points would be, I would hope point 3) shouldn't be a factor if this league is going to present itself as a D1 major level league. It really shouldn't be, it would be a bit humbling to say the least for the league if it was a factor.

Point 3 is more about issues that are not soccer related like broadcasts, travel, sitting stuff at stadiums. There kinks that will exists and it would be better to sort them out on a smaller scale imo

3 minutes ago, ironcub14 said:

I think the Gold Cup, point 2), could be negated by a split season, which I think fans are generally in favour of or will come to accept it for a smaller league.

Yes but you can't really do a whole month off in your debut season and expect it not to kill your buzz and in general I don't think it's a good idea to do a spilt season for the sake of the casuals who do not care if it's common in Latin America because MLS and EPL don't pull that shit.

12 minutes ago, ironcub14 said:

I'm a bit doubtful on the relative significance of the WC afterglow, point 1), since Canada is not in it. The WC afterglow always translates better to the European leagues. But this is just a subjective view on this matter, and you could definitely be right.

I agree going after a WC afterglow could bomb.

15 minutes ago, ironcub14 said:

And point 4) is the most interesting one. I would have guessed that the majority of players, Canadian and international, coming to CPL, would be coming from the North and Central American leagues as opposed to the Canadians being repatriated from European leagues and internationals from other leagues on the August-May calendar. Quality vs quantity, better signings maybe in the summer, but would be a bit less on quantity. I'll think a bit more about the points you made.

There's a number of Canadians players playing Aug-May leagues (a good number of whom have their contracts ending in 2018). Also most of CONCACAF's leagues use Aug-May including Honduras, El Salvador, Jamaica and TnT. Don't forget the NASL uses the spilt season format which could result in players signing only half season deal there.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

59 minutes ago, ironcub14 said:

B.)     You want it in place for the FIFA 2026 WC bid committee to review

Is that angle even relevant now when there is no solo bid and we recently found out that Hamilton and Winnipeg, the two known CPL cities, aren't even being contacted about being host cities?

https://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/2017/08/15/2026-world-cup-bid-committee-approaches-7-potential-canadian-host-cities.html

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Rheo]

Posted this in the WC thread but Winnipeg inquired and chose not to bid.  Hamilton is possibly the same

 http://www.winnipegsun.com/2017/08/15/winnipeg-left-off-world-cup-list

Edited August 16, 2017 by Rheo

[ironcub14]

12 minutes ago, matty said:

Point 3 is more about issues that are not soccer related like broadcasts, travel, sitting stuff at stadiums. There kinks that will exists and it would be better to sort them out on a smaller scale imo

Yes but you can't really do a whole month off in your debut season and expect it not to kill your buzz and in general I don't think it's a good idea to do a spilt season for the sake of the casuals who do not care if it's common in Latin America because MLS and EPL don't pull that shit.

I agree going after a WC afterglow could bomb.

There's a number of Canadians players playing Aug-May leagues (a good number of whom have their contracts ending in 2018). Also most of CONCACAF's leagues use Aug-May including Honduras, El Salvador, Jamaica and TnT. Don't forget the NASL uses the spilt season format which could result in players signing only half season deal there.

I think that CPL and CanMNT are going to do some major cross-promoting, and if anything, the Gold Cup afterglow would actually be something very tangible for CPL to benefit from for sure for the 2019 season. Absolutely no doubt about that, considering PB has used the CPL Twitter account to heavily boost CanMNT at the Gold Cup last month. I don't think CPL fans are going to mind taking a month off for CanMNT at all.

And, I still think that the majority of players in CPL will eventually come from leagues on the March-November calendar, in the grand scheme of things. And, as you said, any player, no matter what calendar they're on, can sign a half-season contract, so it's actually not that big of a factor either.

[ironcub14]

11 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Is that angle even relevant now when there is no solo bid and we recently found out that Hamilton and Winnipeg, the two known CPL cities, aren't even being contacted about being host cities?

https://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/2017/08/15/2026-world-cup-bid-committee-approaches-7-potential-canadian-host-cities.html

 

I put it in there for anybody who would and do still find it relevant. No biggie if not so, agreed.

[gator]

3 minutes ago, Rheo said:

Posted this in the WC thread but Winnipeg inquired and chose not to bid.  Hamilton is possibly the same

 http://www.winnipegsun.com/2017/08/15/winnipeg-left-off-world-cup-list

Thanks for posting that, I'm a little less pissed off with The Hammer not being considered!

[matty]

1 minute ago, ironcub14 said:

I think that CPL and CanMNT are going to do some major cross-promoting, and if anything, the Gold Cup afterglow would actually be something very tangible for CPL to benefit from for sure for the 2019 season. Absolutely no doubt about that, considering PB has used the CPL Twitter account to heavily boost CanMNT at the Gold Cup last month. I don't think CPL fans are going to mind taking a month off for CanMNT at all.

And, I still think that the majority of players in CPL will eventually come from leagues on the March-November calendar, in the grand scheme of things. And, as you said, any player, no matter what calendar they're on, can sign a half-season contract, so it's actually not that big of a factor either.

Just going to note a very unpopular opinion: I don't a good chunk of CPL fans will care about the national team at least at the start. There's going to be a large group that just want live soccer to watch and another that are fans of other nations that just want to watch their hometown team. Yes the Vs and the Canadiana types will but there will be a sizable chunk that's don't care about CanMNT.

There's also the matter of when the season actually starts once the league goes full year. Like if it's starting mid-May taking July off makes zero sense.

I think a better counter would be to establish the league in its original markets with the short season. Make the teams and non/fringe MNT players known as well as the MNT guys and play through the Gold Cup (at least for now) with maybe a 2 week break but I do think using a break should be used in late July/early August to arrange some big money friendlies.

[Complete Homer]

1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Is that angle even relevant now when there is no solo bid and we recently found out that Hamilton and Winnipeg, the two known CPL cities, aren't even being contacted about being host cities?

https://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/2017/08/15/2026-world-cup-bid-committee-approaches-7-potential-canadian-host-cities.html

 

Because Canadians won't be watching the World Cup if it isn't in their city, despite a long history of extremely high viewership?

The point isn't that people will show up to the stadium and suddenly have a realization that they like live soccer (though that could definitely help some markets), it's that the country will turn its attention to soccer for a month and it's a great time to get the attention of casual fans. There's a big difference between a commercial for a new Canadian league *launching in 1 month* during the world cup final vs *launching next year, maybe*

Heck, that single commercial could draw more people to a game than a year of meet/greets and the rare mainstream article

Edited August 16, 2017 by Complete Homer

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

55 minutes ago, ironcub14 said:

I put it in there for anybody who would and do still find it relevant. No biggie if not so, agreed.

Now it's a joint bid people seem to have let go of the need to have a domestic league to host angle in recent times that always seemed like a bit of an urban myth to me given it wasn't an issue where the 2015 Women's World Cup was concerned, but maybe it's still important to somebody on here as you suggest.

[ironcub14]

2 hours ago, matty said:

Just going to note a very unpopular opinion: I don't a good chunk of CPL fans will care about the national team at least at the start. There's going to be a large group that just want live soccer to watch and another that are fans of other nations that just want to watch their hometown team. Yes the Vs and the Canadiana types will but there will be a sizable chunk that's don't care about CanMNT.

There's also the matter of when the season actually starts once the league goes full year. Like if it's starting mid-May taking July off makes zero sense.

I think a better counter would be to establish the league in its original markets with the short season. Make the teams and non/fringe MNT players known as well as the MNT guys and play through the Gold Cup (at least for now) with maybe a 2 week break but I do think using a break should be used in late July/early August to arrange some big money friendlies.

Pretty sure the season would start April at the latest if it launched in 2019, like most of the other North American calendars.

And if we're talking about CPL, I would think the majority of fans would know or follow CanMNT and/or CanWNT to some degree. And, I can't think of anybody better to convert to CanMNT Gold Cup fans than a live CPL audience that wasn't aware of the tournament before.

[matty]

16 minutes ago, ironcub14 said:

Pretty sure the season would start April at the latest if it launched in 2019, like most of the other North American calendars.

And if we're talking about CPL, I would think the majority of fans would know or follow CanMNT and/or CanWNT to some degree. And, I can't think of anybody better to convert to CanMNT Gold Cup fans than a live CPL audience that wasn't aware of the tournament before.

I think the season is either mid-April or early May but there is a decent chance it starts later especially if they have only 6 teams for it not to mention weather. Can't rule it out

If the league is dependant on CanMNT/WNT fans the league will fail (if budgets are true). Yes you're going have that cross over but you'll still have 15-30% of your fans that do not care for the MNT. I did a poll a while ago of TFC attendees and found about a 1/4 to 1/3 did not follow the MNT or did not support Canada, I don't think I got a large enough of a sample to publish but I did notice that trend.

Also the Gold Cup isn't that big in Canada outside of the soccer circles. I think only 2 games in barely cracked the top 25 in ratings in Canada.

Look, the Gold Cup could work IF Canada hosted it. If the CSA came forward and said CPL starts May 1 and the spring season runs to June 25, then we take a month break cause we're hosting the Gold Cup July 3-27, followed by a Fall season starting August 1 to September 28 then playoffs in October. That would work but I don't think that's the case right now

Edited August 16, 2017 by matty

[rob.notenboom]

This is a bit off topic but it's being widely reported that both Wpg & Ham were contacted about being potential WC hosts and declined. So it's not so much that they were left out but more that they removef themselves from consideration. 

[matty]

2 minutes ago, rob.notenboom said:

This is a bit off topic but it's being widely reported that both Wpg & Ham were contacted about being potential WC hosts and declined. So it's not so much that they were left out but more that they removef themselves from consideration. 

Not surprised by Hamilton to be honest. They had little to no chance of hosting a game so they're likely saving some cash and effort on it to focus on other things. Plus the legal stuff going on there.

Winnipeg is kind of a surprise but maybe they just don't see it happening for them.

[Tigers]

14 hours ago, matty said:

I hope Bob Young and Hamilton FC use the H on Bob's hat as their logo  http://hamiltonprosoccer.ca/article/message-from-the-caretaker-bob-young

That would be pretty sweet. Would work well if they push calling it the Hamilton Football Club (whether or not they have another nickname). It is based off old Tigers sweaters:

The Cats use it occasionally, like this T shirt:

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Tigers

[An Observer]

 I like it but maybe a little to close to the Honduras strip which brings back to many bad memories

[matty]

42 minutes ago, An Observer said:

 I like it but maybe a little to close to the Honduras strip which brings back to many bad memories

he posted that in response to the following post i made so I think he's aware

21 hours ago, matty said:

....Side note: I hope Bob Young and Hamilton FC use the H on Bob's hat as their logo and The Honduras FA sues to fuel the fire.

 

[-Hammer-]

19 hours ago, Tigers said:

That would be pretty sweet. Would work well if they push calling it the Hamilton Football Club (whether or not they have another nickname). It is based off old Tigers sweaters:

 

Suddenly I have a desire to smoke turkish cigarettes. Anyways, Scott Mitchell just said on twitter the reason why we didn't get announced as a potential World Cup venue is Hamilton City council withdrew from consideration, which makes sense to be honest. TD Place in Ottawa is incredibly similar to Tim Hortons Field, both in capacity and design and they made the list.

The City of Hamilton is in a budget crunch and an event like the world cup will likely lose more money then in brings in. What kills me about it though, is you would think a city having issues with revenue, suddenly wants to delay getting more money in rent from an existing tenant, while raising the profile of the game in the city. That said though, Hamilton City Council has always been a hideous mess of disappointment due to the city's urban, suburban and rural divides since amalgamation. 7/15 Councillors have been on council for over a decade, so this budget crisis in my eyes is very much of their own making, yet still they always seem to get back in.

Edited August 17, 2017 by -Hammer-

[Rheo]

I know most won't care but Rollins on Soccer Today pod yesterday said 2018 is looking less likely.  Lots of talk/speculation on Ottawa with the coaching change and their future plans.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Rheo

[Complete Homer]

19 minutes ago, Rheo said:

I know most won't care but Rollins on Soccer Today pod yesterday said 2018 is looking less likely.  Lots of talk/speculation on Ottawa with the coaching change and their future plans.

Could just be a reaction to the Hamilton issue, though it would not be an unreasonable one at all

[ironcub14]

20 minutes ago, Rheo said:

I know most won't care but Rollins on Soccer Today pod yesterday said 2018 is looking less likely.  Lots of talk/speculation on Ottawa with the coaching change and their future plans.

What was the discussion on the Fury's future plans like? Thanks in advance.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

...where Duane Rollins is concerned, if that's what he is saying. Having got that out of my system, it's worth bearing in mind that PB (think it was him anyway?) stated at one point in the not too distant past that the 2026 World Cup bid was the "lightning rod" for interest in CPL or something along those lines. What would be worthy of investigation by somebody with contacts on this is whether there were any implications for the direction of the whole CPL project once it became obvious that all of the groups involved were likely to be completely peripheral to that, because a joint bid was probably going to be confined to the three MLS markets. My guess would be that the only fall out has been that it explains why the Stampeders were not involved along with the Blue Bombers and Ticats at the CSA AGM as they were angling for a way to fund the CalgaryNEXT stadium with government infrastructure money, and also the move away from being hosts of a World Cup also explains the subsequent talk of 200k markets and multiple teams in the Golden Horseshoe that seems wildly at odds with the "original six" in the Halifax ppt presentation.

Edited August 17, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Complete Homer]

6 minutes ago, ironcub14 said:

What was the discussion on the Fury's future plans like? Thanks in advance.

IIRC all he said was that he feels it's likely that they are a launch team, don't think he elaborated

[ironcub14]

Still couldn't believe how little outrage there was not just among the general public but among V's that we only got 10 games.

People just can't see the future, the investment in infrastructure, and what things could look like just 9 years from now.

I've seen first-hand the profound transformational impact that a World Cup hosting duty can have on a national infrastructure, both stadium and sport-wise, including for its domestic league and the system as a whole. Harry Coyster can debate with me the sustainability of all that, but that's a nice fun problem to have and to discuss later on.

Bottom line, we should be outraged that the 2026 WC bid has been split 60/10/10, our current stadium infrastructure be damned. There's a ton of federal stimulus money to be spent ya know.

Edited August 17, 2017 by ironcub14