CPL General

[-Hammer-]

As far as the Hamilton absurdity, it's part for the course with our city council divided far to evenly along urban and suburban lines. The Ti-Cats last I checked disputed the city's interpretation of the position. Either way, having Ron Joyce as a backup might not be a bad idea.

As far as KW is concerned, the biggest issue I see is getting a stadium. Everything we've heard coming out of the CPL is that they expect to run in smaller markets and markets that will be close to other markets, unlike other sports (such as the NHL or NFL) who have incredibly entrenched regional rights.

[matty]

5 minutes ago, ReedOnTheGrand said:

The waterloo Health report is 640k by 2031

Cool, thought it was lower (like 610 or 615k). I'm lean towards saying we should stick to the hard numbers and not count temp ones just because we don't know if they're be a factor for CPL yet. We should have an idea soonish I hope. If it does look like something that CPL sides will be able to rely on then it should totally be counted.

12 minutes ago, ReedOnTheGrand said:

Guelph will be divided, however seeing as the supporters are currently part of the KW supporters group and the fact it's twice as close I don't think it's unfair to think if a KW team came Guelph supporters would be mostly skewed towards KW.  

You would think it but odd things do happen and Hamilton staking claim to the region isn't that odd given the history.

[matty]

3 minutes ago, -Hammer- said:

As far as KW is concerned, the biggest issue I see is getting a stadium. Everything we've heard coming out of the CPL is that they expect to run in smaller markets and markets that will be close to other markets, unlike other sports (such as the NHL or NFL) who have incredibly entrenched regional rights.

Stadium is def issue number 1 and yes the CPL seems to want to do that with Toronto and Vancouver but the talk right now is KW as founding 6 and I don't see it.

[ReedOnTheGrand]

1 hour ago, matty said:

Cool, thought it was lower (like 610 or 615k). I'm lean towards saying we should stick to the hard numbers and not count temp ones just because we don't know if they're be a factor for CPL yet. We should have an idea soonish I hope. If it does look like something that CPL sides will be able to rely on then it should totally be counted.

You would think it but odd things do happen and Hamilton staking claim to the region isn't that odd given the history.

I would say not adding the temp numbers would be stupid, students are a big demographic are they won't just stop coming. 

[matty]

38 minutes ago, ReedOnTheGrand said:

I would say not adding the temp numbers would be stupid, students are a big demographic are they won't just stop coming. 

Yea but it's a matter of when the season is running and how much tickets cost. If the season runs April to September a student population isn't that big a deal and if tickets are over $25 students are unlikely to turn out.

There's also the matter of the "my team" logic.

Edited August 15, 2017 by matty

[Complete Homer]

Obviously coaching staff aren't calling the shots, but we have all read Julian's take on CPL, can't hurt to have his voice with the Fury

 

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Complete Homer

[ReedOnTheGrand]

3 hours ago, matty said:

Yea but it's a matter of when the season is running and how much tickets cost. If the season runs April to September a student population isn't that big a deal and if tickets are over $25 students are unlikely to turn out.

There's also the matter of the "my team" logic.

The temporarily students that I counted are ones who stay year round, there's another 8-10 who leave for the summer. 

[matty]

Just now, ReedOnTheGrand said:

The temporarily students that I counted are ones who stay year round, there's another 8-10 who leave for the summer. 

Ok, I thought you were referring to those that leave over the summer

[Complete Homer]

Out of curiosity, does anyone remember what the text of the "about" section on canpl.ca said originally? I don't quite remember it having the phrasing that it does now, and I don't remember them pegging a specific launch year. I could be wrong, maybe it's unchanged, but interesting that the official site pegs 2018 as the launch now/still

"England has the Premier League. Germany, Bundes Liga. In Spain, it’s simply “La Liga”.

In the United States and select Canadian cities, it’s Major League Soccer, yes, that’s America’s domestic league.

Introducing the Canadian Premier League, Canada’s very own national soccer league, and Canada’s only professional coast to coast league.

Playing in world-class venues, the CPL will bring professional soccer to communities across our great country.

Launching in 2018, clubs will vie to capture the Canadian Championship."

[matty]

58 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

Out of curiosity, does anyone remember what the text of the "about" section on canpl.ca said originally? I don't quite remember it having the phrasing that it does now, and I don't remember them pegging a specific launch year. I could be wrong, maybe it's unchanged, but interesting that the official site pegs 2018 as the launch now/still

Tried waybackmachine with no luck but it did say 2018.

Side note: I hope Bob Young and Hamilton FC use the H on Bob's hat as their logo and The Honduras FA sues to fuel the fire. http://hamiltonprosoccer.ca/article/message-from-the-caretaker-bob-young

Edited August 16, 2017 by matty

[Rheo]

I wouldn't read to much into the website saying 2018 start.  The site isn't updated often (I go there every day, as should everyone else as web traffic can only help lol)  Just more of the long slow wait

[matty]

1 hour ago, Rheo said:

I wouldn't read to much into the website saying 2018 start.  The site isn't updated often (I go there every day, as should everyone else as web traffic can only help lol)  Just more of the long slow wait

It is an official statement so it can't be tossed aside but it would be nice if they pulled it if starting in 2019 is on the table. It would be even nicer if they uploaded stuff more often.

I don't fully get why they aren't posting their own videos from Paulie B's Regina and Halifax meetings or their own coverage of the Gold Cup and the national team like MLS does. It might not produce much but at least it's something to keep people coming to the site and engaging with their Twitter, Facebook and YouTube (assuming they'd use that platform).

[Rheo]

They haven't taken 2018 off the table publically so I don't think it's bad it's up here.  It's just some of the "experts" on here saying that there's no way it can launch next year.  Bottom line, we don't know, they do know and aren't telling us.  We just have a borderline unhealthy obsession with this so everything gets over analyzed

I still believe (this next bit is just my theory, I have no evidence for the record) that the lack of info is by design.  They have a plan with how the information is release.  The hardcore obsessed don't really need video of Beirne's talks.  We've read recaps, reread blog posts and analyzed every bit of information.  The give us enough (well to their opinion) bits of information to keep us chomping for more info through these and the podcast hits.  

They have the bare minimum up on the website because that's what they want the casual fan to know.  They want them to know it's out there and on it's way.  At some point there will be a big launch announcement and that will be more geared to the casual fan as well as filling in the many holes we've talked to death on here

Edited August 16, 2017 by Rheo

[dyslexic nam]

To be honest, I take the lack of current content and ongoing updates on the site as a pretty strong omen re any chance of a 2018 launch.  It is kind of like Beirne reaching out to us all in the "Greetings from CPL" thread that was supposed to provide answers as they became available, yet which has gone completely dark since then (despite lots of initial interest on our side collectively).  It is hard to interpret that kind of radio-silence in anything but a negative manner - especially when we have missed a huge opportunity for promotion/synergy in a Gold Cup run that would have provided a great platform for promotion - even if there were caveats involved.  

Not to be too pessimistic, but I am no longer placing any hope in the idea of a pro league launching next year.  So much needs to be done, by so many people to make this happen, yet we don't even have basic confirmation of teams and stadia yet.  Maybe I will be somehow pleasantly surprised, but I am not setting myself up for any more disappointments.

[gator]

I just listened to an interview with local Hamilton Councillor Ferguson, he heads the stadium committee, things don't sound good at all! City has a policy not to deal with parties they are in litigation with (Tiger Cats) it seems the City of Hamilton is being sued even though they aren't responsible for what the Cats are trying to recoup money from but are a conduit because the Tiger Cats can't go after  Ontario directly! Knowing this council all too well I am very pessimistic about this being resolved soon! 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

9 minutes ago, Rheo said:

...It's just some of the "experts" on here saying that there's no way it can launch next year...

Who has ever said that in a categorical way? The Hamilton thing at first glance looks like the final nail in the coffin for 2018 until you remember there's a 5,000 plus stadium at McMaster University as I pointed out yesterday. Where there's a will, there's usually a way if people want it badly enough and they must have known that the City could easily adopt that posture given what was being said about Grey Cup bids a few months ago. The way I see it at the moment is that their life would be immeasurably easier in terms of reaching six for a soft launch if they get Ottawa and Edmonton firmly on board. The latter seems unlikely barring an NASL death spiral given statements made a few months back to Steven Sandor about the Edmonton "original six" entry that appeared to be anticipated by the Halifax pdf not being them, but maybe Paul Dalglish's resignation/ouster suggests that he wasn't happy about an imminent change of circumstances there? That's a major stretch, but it did tend to cast some of the best recent evidence that they are not interested into question again.

[Rheo]

I wasn't calling you out BBTB.  Despite your previous reputation that some just can't past, I've quite enjoyed a lot of your more recent points since you've learned more and find them quite reasonable and constructive. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm thinking 2019 is most likely but I'm not all doom and gloom as some are.  Just way too many Eeyores waiting for the worst to happen or it not happening fast enough for them.

[matty]

23 minutes ago, Rheo said:

The hardcore obsessed don't really need video of Beirne's talks.  We've read recaps, reread blog posts and analyzed every bit of information.  The give us enough (well to their opinion) bits of information to keep us chomping for more info through these and the podcast hits.  

They have the bare minimum up on the website because that's what they want the casual fan to know.  They want them to know it's out there and on it's way.  At some point there will be a big launch announcement and that will be more geared to the casual fan as well as filling in the many holes we've talked to death on here

Yea the hardcore don't need stuff like that but the casuals do. They literally sent the casuals here to be educated and that was a mistake. Their bare minimum approach to their site, FB and Twitter is very questionable.

10 minutes ago, gator said:

....Knowing this council all too well I am very pessimistic about this being resolved soon! 

I'm sure the litigation will be resolved soon mainly because the TiCats are too invested in this project to lose out on what can be gained from it. If everyone else is good to go for 2018, they'll settle.

 

[Rheo]

5 minutes ago, matty said:

Yea the hardcore don't need stuff like that but the casuals do. They literally sent the casuals here to be educated and that was a mistake. Their bare minimum approach to their site, FB and Twitter is very questionable.

As I said just my theory on what could be going on and their possible line of thinking.  I don't know what's right but it's their money and their plan so who am I to judge.  I'm just a custom broker who spends too much time on here lol

[ironcub14]

Just out of curiosity, I was wondering, those of you who would prefer CPL to launch early or mid 2018, could I do a little quick fun poll with you just to get an idea of what's the main reason you'd like to see it launch 2018? I'm sure it would be a combination of a number of different things, but if you could only choose just one, which one describes you the best?

A)     You want the league to be playing asap, whether in your city or not, can’t wait

B.)     You want it in place for the FIFA 2026 WC bid committee to review

C)      You like the idea of taking advantage of the 2018 WC afterglow

D)     You are going off the fact that Young and PB have always pegged 2018 as their goal for launch

E)      You like round even numbers like 2018 over odd numbers like 2019

F)      You got the V’s shirt and you damn sure aren’t getting another one that says “2019” instead

Edited August 16, 2017 by ironcub14

[matty]

5 minutes ago, ironcub14 said:

Just out of curiosity, I was wondering, those of you who would prefer CPL to launch early or mid 2018, could I do a little quick fun poll with you just to get an idea of what's the main reason you'd like to see it launch 2018? I'm sure it would be a combination of a number of different things, but if you could only choose just one, which one describes you the best?

A)     You want the league to be playing asap, whether in your city or not, can’t wait

B.)     You want it in place for the FIFA 2026 WC bid committee to review

C)      You like the idea of taking advantage of the 2018 WC afterglow

D)     You are going off the fact that Young and PB have always pegged 2018 as their goal for launch

E)      You like round even numbers like 2018 over odd numbers like 2019

F)      You got the V’s shirt and you damn sure aren’t getting another one that says “2019” instead

Paulie B has always walked a fine line about the date so I don't think it's fair to say he pegged it as 2018. But anyways, regarding your poll I think you're missing an option "There are more pros to 2018 than 2019"

[ironcub14]

4 minutes ago, matty said:

Paulie B has always walked a fine line about the date so I don't think it's fair to say he pegged it as 2018. But anyways, regarding your poll I think you're missing an option "There are more pros to 2018 than 2019"

Didn't think I'd compile an exhaustive list, I'd be surprised if I did. Feel free to elaborate on what you said if you want.

[Complete Homer]

Just now, ironcub14 said:

Just out of curiosity, I was wondering, those of you who would prefer CPL to launch early or mid 2018, could I do a little quick fun poll with you just to get an idea of what's the main reason you'd like to see it launch 2018? I'm sure it would be a combination of a number of different things, but if you could only choose just one, which one describes you the best?

A)     You want the league to be playing asap, whether in your city or not, can’t wait

B.)     You want it in place for the FIFA WC bid committee to review

C)      You like the idea of taking advantage of the 2018 WC afterglow

D)     You are going off the fact that Young and PB have always pegged 2018 as their goal for launch

E)      You like round even numbers like 2018 over odd numbers like 2019

F)      You got the V’s shirt and you damn sure aren’t getting another one that says “2019” instead

C/D

To me, if PB and co. think 2018 is the best option, they have way more information than we do and questioning the decision is really just doing so with partial information. If 2018 is still plan A, awesome, If they decide 2019, I trust their decision then too

C also plays a bit of a role to me. It's too big of an opportunity to pass up if the league is able to launch reasonably well

[matty]

8 minutes ago, ironcub14 said:

Didn't think I'd compile an exhaustive list, I'd be surprised if I did. Feel free to elaborate on what you said if you want.

If you compare the two, a short 2018 season or a full 2019 season, for the launch the 2018 comes off better for several reasons including the following
1) Media and casuals will be hotter on it thanks to the World Cup
2) There isn't a Gold Cup taking top Canadians and general players out of the league for the month of June
3) The shorter season allows kinks to be worked out before the larger project is unleashed
4) Will result in better signings due to its window
5) If there is no TV or streaming deal, the league will spend less doing their own streams to prove the league can draw

Edited August 16, 2017 by matty

[dyslexic nam]

For me it is just about it becoming reality ASAP.  The sooner it moves from "too-good-to-be-true fantasy" to "hey I just watched a game and bought some merch" the better.  If attempts at 2018 reduce the chances of that happening in a sustainable way, then delay.  If not, lets get going.   But I don't actually place a ton of importance on tying it to WC 2018.  If people think the league lives or dies on that issue, it is way to tenuous IMO.