CPL General

[Winnipeg Fury]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

Some people need to keep in mind that these numbers are without mainstream media attention and with medium to low marketing campaigns so far

 

FYI  -  Valour were 1296 on September 16.

 

 

[baulderdash77]

I worry a bit for Victoria.  I thought they would have done better with no other sports teams.  I thought they had a soccer hotbed market?  I was hoping they would be Halifax level or better even.

[toontownman]

18 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Realistically, why would you expect to ever be able to do so even if it is successful and grows? When has the Scottish league ever had the strength in depth that the English one does given there is a tenth of the population to draw spectators and historically also players from? Not having to deal with the Canadian equivalent of the Old Firm (I am referring to the sheer size of the clubs rather than the religious/political angle, a better analogy would maybe be Benfica, Sporting and Porto in Portugal) should help to make the league more equitable and interesting for everybody else and at that point as long as fans are in touch with reality where comparisons with MLS are concerned a good time should be had by all.

Wait don't try and switch this round you're the negative one here. Stop being so CPL positive ?

 

[Blackjack15]

I would think it’s quite possible for all 7-8 Clubs to get a good Shirt Sponsor for 2019

Now whether that falls in the category of $500K-$1M or less/more remains to be seen

Depending how big the company may be too 

For example how FC Edmonton got Sears in 2011/2012 or how Ottawa Fury got smaller brand name like Chartwells

You’d think Scotiabank for HFX Wanderers and Tim Hortons for Forge FC is a no brainer 

The Foothills had Shaw, I’m sure it must have been on a much smaller scale

What do you guys think? It’s certainly something to look at now 

Will be interesting to see if they go Local, Provincial, National. 

Numbers, Numbers, Numbers 

The CPL and CSB will negotiate various things but I would guess that this will be separate and independent for teams to go after 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

7 hours ago, toontownman said:

Wait don't try and switch this round you're the negative one here. Stop being so CPL positive ?

 

Bizarre stuff. I have consistently pointed to things like lower break evens, emulating PDL's U-23 focus and including MLS affiliates as ways to make it actually work. That isn't negative,  it's constructive. What's negative is pretending that MLS has been bad for and hasn't been interested in developing Canadian players like Osorio, Chapman, Telfer, Davies, Teibert, Piette and others that have successfully used it as a stepping stone like Larin and Tabla.

[Ansem]

According to this Montreal Blog who was observing the trials in Montreal, the CPL teams budgets being discussed were $8M.

Question is, how much will be dedicated to players salary...

Edited September 29, 2018 by Ansem

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

That handle looks familiar from reddit. Think it's someone who also posts on here. I sometimes get some unintentionally hilarious Star Wars nerd videos in my youtube feed that rant and rave about Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson and insist they are about to be fired, while the exact opposite usually turns out to be the case any time something pops up onto my phone from more mainstream sources. The question to ask at this point is if this is true why did the Fury steer clear?

Edited September 29, 2018 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Ams1984]

40 minutes ago, Ansem said:

According to this Montreal Blog who was observing the trials in Montreal, the CPL teams budgets being discussed were $8M.

Question is, how much will be dedicated to players salary...

If it’s $8MM that’s a pretty good sign. Though, I’d imagine it’s a range (as with most salary capped leagues), so some clubs will presumably choose not to spend up to the cap, while other will probably want to spend as much as allowed. 

I’ll bet that if the $8MM number is accurate, it likely includes all annual expenditures including stadium rentals, staff salaries, advertising, etc. So salary cap could conceivably be any number really. If I had to guess, maybe $1.5-$3MM/yr on salaries. 

[Ansem]

38 minutes ago, Ams1984 said:

If it’s $8MM that’s a pretty good sign. Though, I’d imagine it’s a range (as with most salary capped leagues), so some clubs will presumably choose not to spend up to the cap, while other will probably want to spend as much as allowed. 

I’ll bet that if the $8MM number is accurate, it likely includes all annual expenditures including stadium rentals, staff salaries, advertising, etc. So salary cap could conceivably be any number really. If I had to guess, maybe $1.5-$3MM/yr on salaries. 

If it's true,

my theory is that the league got ticked off by the Fury lowballing numbers and they upped it from $5M to $8M?

Edited September 29, 2018 by Ansem

[toontownman]

4 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Bizarre stuff. I have consistently pointed to things like lower break evens, emulating PDL's U-23 focus and including MLS affiliates as ways to make it actually work. That isn't negative,  it's constructive. What's negative is pretending that MLS has been bad for and hasn't been interested in developing Canadian players like Osorio, Chapman, Telfer, Davies, Teibert, Piette and others that have successfully used it as a stepping stone like Larin and Tabla.

Absolutely. Just as sure as the fact people will still pay and watch the CPL if it's on Dazyn. It's just many more people would watch and be exposed to it if it's CBC. I wont use the word negative, just spin because you know better ignoring there aren't limitations to the growth of Canadian players in the MLS. Your are painting it like MLS rode into Canada on a noble white steed and sprinkled fairy dust to all Canadians gifting everyone the fastrack to the American dream. 

Not counting Canadians as domestics in the states has closed so many doors for Canadians development we will never be able to track or quantify. Granted of course we have done ourselves any favours here with a lack of pathways until now for going players as the states does through universities and the US pro leagues. The club's themselves weren't mandated by the MLS to grow Canadian players either. 

We have alot to be thankful for with the MLS helping Canadian Soccer get back on track and giving Canadian players a platform. No one should ignore that. 

But the MLS wasn't built for inclusivity of Canadians it's a US league just as the CPL is there primarily for Canadians. The MLS has been interested in building our big markets into the MLS not building Canadian players. That is a byproduct and added bonus for us. If it was otherwise the domestic rule would never have applied for Canadians or continue to. 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

40 minutes ago, Ansem said:

If it's true,

my theory is that the league got ticked off by the Fury lowballing numbers and they upped it from $5M to $8M?

There is also the possibility that it's a number for salaries and soccer operations for the entire league and hence in line with the info in David Clanachan's recent Q&A session on the league website as well as the various sources in Ottawa.

5 out of 7 confirmed franchises would be in very good shape to break even on that sort of slightly into seven figures budget assuming an average of something like 2 season ticket sales per membership, but that would be a much more distant prospect on a total per team budget of $8 million p.a.

[Ansem]

2 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

There is also the possibility that it's a number for salaries and soccer operations for the entire league and hence in line with the info in David Clanachan's recent Q&A session on the league website as well as the various sources in Ottawa.

5 out of 7 confirmed franchises would be in very good shape to break even on that sort of slightly into seven figures budget assuming an average of something like 2 season ticket sales per membership, but that would be a much more distant prospect on a total per team budget of $8 million p.a.

It's per teams, not entire league

[baulderdash77]

Let’s wait and see, as always it seems let’s wait and see.  I doubt an 8th team emerges for the first season but I think we’re going to have at least 5 well attended teams next year.  Let’s see the what the ticket drives get us.

We’re only weeks away from our first player signing and only 6 months from the start of the new league!

This is still the best we’ve been for Canadian soccer since the 80’s.

[Blackjack15]

6 hours ago, Ansem said:

As discussed on Forbes Magazine each Club spending $5M per season seems very consistent with what was said before and now 

[Ansem]

A media from France wrote a very detailed article on CPL. 

 

[Complete Homer]

 

[CDNFootballer]

10 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The question to ask at this point is if this is true why did the Fury steer clear?

1) They're unsure of the stability of the new league.

2) They paid millions 2 years ago to join USL and are apparently paying that over 8 more years.

[Bison44]

4 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

1) They're unsure of the stability of the new league.

2) They paid millions 2 years ago to join USL and are apparently paying that over 8 more years.

The Fury paid millions to get into the USL??  Really??

[A_Gagne]

On 9/26/2018 at 10:29 AM, Ansem said:

Lenarduzzi interview

https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/whitecaps-president-robinson-firing-time-move/

Good stuff at the 9:00 mark

Pretty much defending the low spending philosophy of the Whitecaps when being challenged on that. Don't know if it's unwillingness or inability to spend at the level of the top clubs but what's the point in staying in MLS if you know that you'll only get the cup by pulling a "Leicester City" type of miracle? How will you be able to sell that to fans and for how long? He's kind of being challenged there too.

He's pointing out to leagues around the world where the giants are spending the money while the others do the best they can with their limited resources. Does Vancouver wants to be an "MLS minnow or CPL powerhouse"? More importantly, what would the fans rather see for their team? In the end, it comes down to that in my opinion.

I'm starting to think that in the long term, only TFC can keep up with the rest of MLS. Saputo in Montreal is already tied up with Bologna in Serie A and have terrible TV ratings and inconsistent attendances (they are called  out by Garber from time to time).

I'm still of the opinion that CPL, long term,  will become a more viable place where they can

• Run the clubs with their preferred level of spending AND dominate the league like a "Real Madrid - Barcelona - Atletico Madrid" standing situation in La Liga -- which drives up sales for winning, getting cups and going to Champions League
• Spending in Canadian dollars
• Have meaningful rivalries, which also drives up sale. (Montreal vs Quebec - Vancouver vs Surrey & Victoria - Toronto vs the rest of Ontario)
• Drives up merchandise sales
• Boost the league value (TV, reputation etc...) and allow it to reach it's true potential.

I'm sorry but MLS is moving fast towards 3.0 and only going UP. I don't think Vancouver and Montreal will keep up. I think for CPL and CSA, all they need to do is to wait it out until CPL starts to make more sense to them.

I think they've figured out they can put a good enough product on the field to put bums in seats on the cheap, and they'd have to double their player salary budget in order ensure they could consistently compete for titles, but without ownership of their own stadium and/or without a GTA sized media market, this would not result in commencerately higher revenues.

That being said however, I think even now they COULD spend a lot more than they currently do to compete, but they make the choice that they'd rather optimize profit over performance. As a business they're free to make that choice, but as a fan I'm also free to stop giving a shit and spend my time and money elsewhere.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

7 hours ago, Bison44 said:

The Fury paid millions to get into the USL??  Really??

You've heard otherwise? Think you were the guy posting hint hint quite a bit about USL entry being a certainty and if so you should probably reexamine the assumptions you tend to make where the Fury are concerned. My guess would be that they got some kind of deal that made CanPL entry relatively painless in terms of exit fees as part of getting the CSA to sanction it but at the same time they are unlikely to have got in for free.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

12 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

2) They paid millions 2 years ago to join USL and are apparently paying that over 8 more years...

All the info I have seen from Ottawa has been consistent with building a domestic heavy roster this summer in anticipation of changing leagues and CanPL then being seen as too low budget and I have yet to see that second part flat out contradicted by someone that is part of or known to be close to CanPL.

Suspect there have been differing visions on what a new domestic pro league should look like and the Fury were on board with the sort of relatively high budget CFL stadium league Duane Rollins used to blog about. Time will tell.

Edited September 30, 2018 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[baulderdash77]

I think your right BBTB.  If it was 8 million operating budgets I think the Fury would be in.  We won’t ever really know but I suspect there’s always grains of truth from both sides when there’s a situation like this.

My suspicion (totally my own suspicion, I have no inside information at all) is that the Fury were slightly over the CPL operating budget limit and they wanted to bring their roster over intact.

This created a problem with the league because they would dominate play having had a 1 year headstart and accumulating lots of B level Canadian talent.  The league wanted them to disburse some of their talent and replace it with C level talent plus a lower wage bill and things unraveled from there.

[Cheeta]

6 hours ago, A_Gagne said:

I think they've figured out they can put a good enough product on the field to put bums in seats on the cheap, and they'd have to double their player salary budget in order ensure they could consistently compete for titles, but without ownership of their own stadium and/or without a GTA sized media market, this would not result in commencerately higher revenues.

That being said however, I think even now they COULD spend a lot more than they currently do to compete, but they make the choice that they'd rather optimize profit over performance. As a business they're free to make that choice, but as a fan I'm also free to stop giving a shit and spend my time and money elsewhere.

Bingo.

A decision to target the greatest profits available at the lowest risk.  That's the sort of thinking people like to see in a sports franchise isn't it?  Living by the law of diminishing returns.  

 

[LAK]

3 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

I think your right BBTB.  If it was 8 million operating budgets I think the Fury would be in.  We won’t ever really know but I suspect there’s always grains of truth from both sides when there’s a situation like this.

My suspicion (totally my own suspicion, I have no inside information at all) is that the Fury were slightly over the CPL operating budget limit and they wanted to bring their roster over intact.

This created a problem with the league because they would dominate play having had a 1 year headstart and accumulating lots of B level Canadian talent.  The league wanted them to disburse some of their talent and replace it with C level talent plus a lower wage bill and things unraveled from there.

Except Clanachan in the statement regarding the Fury said that the league told them they could move over the roster unchanged. That problem therefore was alleviated by the league in their negotiations. The Fury could've come into the league and had the head start. There seems to have been another reason for not joining. They've never actually stated a specific reason for not joining this year, just vague suggestions that make it impossible to know.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

4 minutes ago, LAK said:

Except Clanachan in the statement regarding the Fury said that the league told them they could move over the roster unchanged...

...and the Fury's PA announcer then claimed on twitter that while this was true it neglected to mention that it was only for one season, which meant they would still have had to dismantle the team. Usually what both sides are claiming on something like this is true as far as it goes, but you need to look for weasel words and what has been omitted to find out what they are trying not to tell you.

Edited September 30, 2018 by BringBackTheBlizzard