CPL General

[ted]

1 minute ago, matty said:

How? They were not the ones who pushed the idea that they were in. Be honest as blame both parties for this mess being so public.

Riiiiight, because even though they were in discussions with the league for years, they never gave actually said they were coming aboard. That somehow makes it OK?

OSEG made a public declaration of war without any real notice.

The league was blindsided and have said polite, positive things about OSEG.

But you go ahead and tell yourself there are "fine people" on both sides.

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, matty said:

How? They were not the ones who pushed the idea that they were in. Be honest as blame both parties for this mess being so public.

CPL was blindsided last week after years of talking to the Fury, effectively, holding that market for them. The deception/bitterness is more than justified. Are you telling me that CPL didnt deserve a heads up? Are you telling me OSEG was incapable of communicating their change of heart and working with the league for a joint PR strategy?

No my friend, the way this news was handled by OSEG is on them.

Blindsiding a potential partner in the media is a sure way to make things difficult for yourself in the future. 

[matty]

24 minutes ago, ted said:

Riiiiight, because even though they were in discussions with the league for years, they never gave actually said they were coming aboard. That somehow makes it OK?

OSEG made a public declaration of war without any real notice.

The league was blindsided and have said polite, positive things about OSEG.

But you go ahead and tell yourself there are "fine people" on both sides.

Did I say they did nothing? No I said there are errors on both sides (there are literally sizable errors here coming from all sides). Are you blind to that? The fact you're comparing this to running down a person with a car is fucking stupid.

23 minutes ago, Ansem said:

CPL was blindsided last week after years of talking to the Fury, effectively, holding that market for them. The deception/bitterness is more than justified. Are you telling me that CPL didnt deserve a heads up? Are you telling me OSEG was incapable of communicating their change of heart and working with the league for a joint PR strategy?

No my friend, the way this news was handled by OSEG is on them.

Blindsiding a potential partner in the media is a sure way to make things difficult for yourself in the future. 

Dude again, 2 years of the CPL side hinting (via officials and proxies) and teasing the Fury were a lock. Don't act like that did not happen. This could have been a blimp in the CPL story and the CPL built it up. If they actually planned stuff around having Ottawa as well that falls on them just as much.

I'm so fucking sick of this populist everything the CPL does is 100% right narrative you push. It's early, they will make mistakes don't blame everyone else when they make one.

Edited September 10, 2018 by matty

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Something to bear in mind is that the people making the decisions at OSEG may have a legal obligation in all of this to do what is best for their shareholders. In which case seeing it actually work first can easily be viewed in that sort of light.

[Nerf]

If the CPL starts off hot out of the gates, Ottawa will be in.  No doubt about that.  I am looking forward to hearing about the new jersey contract and actually seeing designs and getting my hands on some...hopefully VanIsl will look sharp as it is closest to me.

[Ansem]

18 minutes ago, matty said:

Did I say they did nothing? No I said there are errors on both sides (there are literally sizable errors here coming from all sides). Are you blind to that? The fact you're comparing this to running down a person with a car is fucking stupid.

Dude again, 2 years of the CPL side hinting (via officials and proxies) and teasing the Fury were a lock. Don't act like that did not happen. This could have been a blimp in the CPL story and the CPL built it up. If they actually planned stuff around having Ottawa as well that falls on them just as much.

I'm so fucking sick of this populist everything the CPL does is 100% right narrative you push. It's early, they will make mistakes don't blame everyone else when they make one.

There wouldn't be Ottawa hints without the Fury being ok with it up until recently. They shut that thing down when they no longer wanted those hints pointed at them... but hey, they were fine with it up until that point.

Ain't so black or white

[BuzzAndSting]

11 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Something to bear in mind is that the people making the decisions at OSEG may have a legal obligation in all of this to do what is best for their shareholders. In which case seeing it actually work first can easily be viewed in that sort of light.

Shareholders? OSEG is a partnership owned by 3 of the largest real estate developers in Ottawa, Jeff Hunt of the 67s and John Pugh.

[ted]

23 minutes ago, matty said:

I'm so fucking sick of this populist everything the CPL does is 100% right narrative you push. 

Who said any such thing? The CanPL has not been doing everything right.

In this case however, the Fury had plenty of time over the last couple of years to say, "Hey, we are not nearly so committed as you are hinting to people. Please rein in the expectations."

And again, they could have given the CanPL a week or a month's warning before releasing a statement that does actual damage to the league.

In this matter you would have to be a hyper-partisan to conclude that this was anything other than the fault of OSEG at least 90%.

[matty]

2 minutes ago, Ansem said:

There wouldn't be Ottawa hints without the Fury being ok with it up until recently. They shut that thing down when they no longer wanted those hints pointed at them... but hey, they were fine with it up until that point.

Ain't so black or white

You mean like saying "We're commited to USL for the time being"? Cause they have done several times since joining the USL and are you sure this isn't B/W cause you've painted a super B/W picture?

3 minutes ago, ted said:

Who said any such thing? The CanPL has not been doing everything right.

In this case however, the Fury had plenty of time over the last couple of years to say, "Hey, we are not nearly so committed as you are hinting to people. Please rein in the expectations."

And again, they could have given the CanPL a week or a month's warning before releasing a statement that does actual damage to the league.

In this matter you would have to be a hyper-partisan to conclude that this was anything other than the fault of OSEG at least 90%.

But it's not.

[Ansem]

14 minutes ago, matty said:

You mean like saying "We're commited to USL for the time being"? Cause they have done several times since joining the USL and are you sure this isn't B/W cause you've painted a super B/W picture?

You and I don't know what was said during the past 2-3 years between CPL and OSEG, but you'd think that at least ONCE, OSEG would have told CPL

"Guys, don't hint at us"

The Fury used the "hints" for their own freaking interest. How can you argue that more people took an interest at the Fury due to their expected arrival in CPL and possible battles against Hamilton and York...and Halifax?  They purposely let those hints happen my friend over the years because they could have easily shut them down at any point but hey, they choose to blindside the league without proper notice.

You still won't admit that the way the Fury handled it was so wrong... Wouldnt be surprised if some owners screamed "F them" and are pushing for other investors. Unlike the Fury, Clanachan never hinted at the door being open in the future, he's talking about them in the past tense and talking other investors in Ottawa.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Ansem

[Shortdutchcanuck]

I think this is all posturing by both sides.  Fury will be in the league in a couple years and CanPL will not be foolish enough to try and put a second team in Ottawa in the meantime.  

[Ansem]

2 minutes ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

I think this is all posturing by both sides.  Fury will be in the league in a couple years and CanPL will not be foolish enough to try and put a second team in Ottawa in the meantime.  

2nd team? Don't forget that the CSA could step in and not renew sanctioning past 2019 or 2020, which would be all but guaranteed if CPL get other investors to start an Ottawa team.

[Gopherbashi]

43 minutes ago, Ansem said:

2nd team? Don't forget that the CSA could step in and not renew sanctioning past 2019 or 2020, which would be all but guaranteed if CPL get other investors to start an Ottawa team.

The antitrust lawsuit following that one would be amazing.

[mpg_29]

Ottawa not joining probably alters what the salary cap will be again some. All those potential markets they are talking to as an 8th team would probably want a lower salary cap as they are smaller markets (significantly smaller in some cases). This is probably why we haven't heard a specific number yet as it's probably an ongoing negotiation and we likely won't until hear anything until the inaugural teams have been 100% finalized.

At the same time. I had thought that an odd number of teams wouldn't be a problem because of a single table format. But it will be a problem with scheduling as you'd have to have a team sit out each week no?....

So they kinda need an 8th team don't they?

Edited September 10, 2018 by mpg_29

[PaulV]

28 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

At the same time. I had thought that an odd number of teams wouldn't be a problem because of a single table format. But it will be a problem with scheduling as you'd have to have a team sit out each week no?....

So they kinda need an 8th team don't they?

The CFL implements bye weeks and that's what they'd have to do, I don't think it's that big of a deal.

[TFC07]

Salary cap isn't a good idea because it will limit bigger teams of signing "high profile" players which CPL needs to attract sponsors, media and fans to their product.  (You gotta spend money to make money).  

But I am glad to read that they're getting close to signing a kit and media deal.   CPL needs to find a way to be on TV both in Canada and internationally.   

As for Ottawa, I am sure they will eventually come around and join CPL in few years.  (USL isn't sustainable for Canadian clubs...just look at TFC2 as proof who joining lower level USL2 next year so they can cut costs)

 

Edited September 11, 2018 by TFC07

[Shortdutchcanuck]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

2nd team? Don't forget that the CSA could step in and not renew sanctioning past 2019 or 2020, which would be all but guaranteed if CPL get other investors to start an Ottawa team.

They could but I don't see any reason why the CSA would want to damage an established team that has led the way in signing Canadians and invested as much money in Canadian players as any CanPL team seems likely to next year.

If CanPL has solid ownership possibilities in other cities like Kitchener, Quebec, and Saskatoon I think they will explore those first and wait on the Fury a years in Ottawa.

Sour grapes aside (and I do have some sour grapes but I'm ready to move on) that is what makes the most sense and what is best for Canadian soccer.  Especially all those players Ottawa signed when they had nowhere else in Canada to go who CanPL may or may not be able to afford next year.

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

They could but I don't see any reason why the CSA would want to damage an established team that has led the way in signing Canadians and invested as much money in Canadian players as any CanPL team seems likely to next year.

It's not about damaging a team, it's about not wanting their members to compete in US leagues

2 minutes ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

If CanPL has solid ownership possibilities in other cities like Kitchener, Quebec, and Saskatoon I think they will explore those first and wait on the Fury a years in Ottawa

Why would they now? They've been talking to the Fury for years, bending to accommodate them and holding Ottawa for them. Then they get blindsided last week and wasted all that time instead of exploring other options.

Would you want to do business with partners like these going forward? I wouldn't, especially if you have alternative for the same market.

Why do you think other North American league succeed in sport business? They don't take BS like this. You think Bettman, Garber, Selig or the others I can't name would take it? Never.

5 minutes ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

 

Sour grapes aside (and I do have some sour grapes but I'm ready to move on) that is what makes the most sense and what is best for Canadian soccer.  Especially all those players Ottawa signed when they had nowhere else in Canada to go who CanPL may or may not be able to afford next year.

It's business, not personal. These investors have put millions of their dollars and names in their name in this league FOR Canadian Soccer and themselves. You can't expect them to brush aside threats to their investments.

Whether they can afford those players or not (not the one's on loan) is speculation at this point.

I know it's new in these parts, but we aren't dealing with suits from the CSA anymore. These are multimillionaires and billionaires who have made a fortune and I guarantee you it wasn't by being "nice" and "forgiving".

Would any other North American league act any differently if there was damage to their brand? Nope

[Blackjack15]

A while back ago Clanachan said they were talking to up to 22 communities including the clubs that had been announced 

Now we know who’s at the table vying for a pro club

The list for Expansion: 

- St John’s, NFLD

- Moncton, NB

- Quebec City

- Laval

- Ottawa 

- Durham  (Ajax, Pickering, Oshawa)

- Niagara region 

- Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge (Tri-cities) 

- Mississauga 

- Regina

- Saskatoon 

- Kewlona

- Lower Mainland (Vancouver metro/Fraser Valley) 

[Shortdutchcanuck]

54 minutes ago, Ansem said:

 

Why would they now? They've been talking to the Fury for years, bending to accommodate them and holding Ottawa for them. Then they get blindsided last week and wasted all that time instead of exploring other options.

Would you want to do business with partners like these going forward? I wouldn't, especially if you have alternative for the same market.

 

You're making a lot of unfounded assumptions about how this went down.

The two sides have been in dialogue for some time but as far as we know the Fury never made any promises to CanPL.  It was CanPL who announced they would start with 8-10 when they probably should have promised 6-7 and 8 would have been a bonus.  CanPL has also heen very slow deciding on concrete details like salary cap (which appears to have moved significantly since the Fury were first approached) and maybe the Fury didn't get enough details by the time they had to make their decision.

What we see now is the usual of both sides trying to spin things their way.  I doubt we'll ever know the full truth, but I've seen a number of opinions on social media that there is plenty of blame on both sides and I tend to agree.

Going into Ottawa with an established team already there would be a huge risk and it would look very bad for CanPL if their team was the one to fail in that situation.

We've seen the advantage in Hamilton and Winnipeg of having an established marketing team and the Fury would have that edge over any new team.

 

 

[Ansem]

4 minutes ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

You're making a lot of unfounded assumptions about how this went down.

The two sides have been in dialogue for some time but as far as we know the Fury never made any promises to CanPL.  It was CanPL who announced they would start with 8-10 when they probably should have promised 6-7 and 8 would have been a bonus.  CanPL has also heen very slow deciding on concrete details like salary cap (which appears to have moved significantly since the Fury were first approached) and maybe the Fury didn't get enough details by the time they had to make their decision.

What we see now is the usual of both sides trying to spin things their way.  I doubt we'll ever know the full truth, but I've seen a number of opinions on social media that there is plenty of blame on both sides and I tend to agree.

Going into Ottawa with an established team already there would be a huge risk and it would look very bad for CanPL if their team was the one to fail in that situation.

We've seen the advantage in Hamilton and Winnipeg of having an established marketing team and the Fury would have that edge over any new team.

 

 

My point is blindsiding a potential partner might backfire down the road, which the league clearly was when reading the CPL statement and angry tone.

That's obvious

[Macksam]

4 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Something to bear in mind is that the people making the decisions at OSEG may have a legal obligation in all of this to do what is best for their shareholders. In which case seeing it actually work first can easily be viewed in that sort of light.

Is OSEG a publicly listed company?

edit: saw Buzz already questioned this.

Edited September 11, 2018 by Macksam

[Bison44]

I have been off the grid for a week...what has happened...everyone is buzzing about Ottawa, I am assuming they announced they are the 8th team.  

[Cheeta]

4 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

The antitrust lawsuit following that one would be amazing.

And here I thought non-competes were legal in Canada. 

[rob.notenboom]

Perhaps it’s just me, but people sure seem to have difficulty sitting back, collecting information, and parsing out what things people have said that end up holding up and which ones don’t. 

Immediately following Ottawa’s announcement, there were suddenly several pieces of ‘information’ being put out on social media by people in Ottawa. It was remarkable how much in agreement all of these infobytes were. It was hard not to see them as having a single source (Fury FO maybe?). Now only a couple of days later, several of those talking points have either been walked back or have been outright debunked. A quick list:

CanPL will be L1O quality. 

This has neither been verified or debunked but of course that’s not really possible when the league has yet to sign a player. 

Ottawa will have to blow up their roster or their players will have to take a 50% pay cut. 

Clanachan addressed this directly by saying that Ottawa was offered the accommodation that they could operate in 2019 under their current situation. Of course that doesn’t address what might happen in 2020, so I can see how it still might be a sticking point (although much less so). Most importantly, in subsequent media appearances, Mark Goudie did not dispute the statement by Clanachan. If it was untrue, one would expect that he would have. 

Players will be billeted and won’t have a housing allowance or arrangement. 

Clanachan gave no details on this in his statement. But that didn’t stop one of the key sources of this information from walking back and casting doubt on his own earlier assertions. See below.

The salary cap will be extremely low.

This was not really clarified in Clanachan’s statement. And while he had some stronger points (Ottawa being offered a year with the same roster rules being the strongest), stating that the budget was ‘north of 7 figures’ is disingenuous when you know that the key point is salary cap. 

There are no TV, travel, or other sponsorship deals.

Well it appears like the jersey deal is virtually ready to be announced. And as for others, broadcasting being the most important of the lot, having things in the works is great and all but ultimately, talk is cheap and a broadcasting deal is about delivering. If CanPL delivers that, Ottawa will look pretty foolish (or perhaps more foolish depending on where you stand on this). If they don’t, it will look like a lot of hot air on CanPL’s part.

Two final things:

1) People should be asking questions of both the Fury and the league right now. Why suddenly were several people connected to the Fury all saying the exact same or very similar things at the same time and why did some of those things turn out to be quite off-base? (I have a very good idea why, but I’m going to hold my tongue on that one) Why, given the opportunity to do so, did Dave Clanachan not simply say what the salary cap was going to be? And why was CanPL’s information released late in the day with (apparently) no subsequent media availability from CanPL officials? Did anyone see an interview with anyone from CanPL after their ‘State of the League’ was posted? Admittedly I might have missed it, but I didn’t see one. 

2) If Mark Goudie’s main objection to joining CanPL was the fact that’s it’s new and unproven, how is that any different now as compared to any other time in the previous two years? This can’t possibly be the reason as it then would have been the reason in January or April and not at this late date.

Anyway ... enough ranting for tonight. Answers to many of these things will come out one way or another eventually. But when those answers come out, will people remember the questions?