CPL General

[mpg_29]

2 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

We have already been told by Paul Beirne on a podcast that they are not budgeting for a TV deal, and will be focussing more on the streaming side of things.

that sounded more like "we don't need TV revenue to operate"...but I didn't take that as they were straight up not looking for a tv deal...

Edited July 26, 2017 by mpg_29

[Rheo]

1 minute ago, mpg_29 said:

I think this one has some validity tough...at least in terms of the size of any potential TV deal the league would get..

I disagree respectfully.  As Beirne has said their business plan doesn't include TV money to succeed.  Anything they get with TV is seemingly going to be icing on the cake.  They're going to be flexible and see what's out there when they are ready to go.  

He said in the VMP interview that streaming was a big thing for them and they're planning on being cutting edge with that (from memory, deleted the pod so wording not exact) emphasizing having the games available to those who want to see them.

The other factor is that cheap Canadian content (especially sports) is important for networks with the CANCON regulations.  Why do you think TSN puts the same CFL game on four channels rather than showing an American produced MLS game for example.  It may not bring much money but I do believe that there will be some market for them.

[mpg_29]

8 minutes ago, Rheo said:

I disagree respectfully.  As Beirne has said their business plan doesn't include TV money to succeed.  Anything they get with TV is seemingly going to be icing on the cake.  They're going to be flexible and see what's out there when they are ready to go.  

He said in the VMP interview that streaming was a big thing for them and they're planning on being cutting edge with that (from memory, deleted the pod so wording not exact) emphasizing having the games available to those who want to see them.

The other factor is that cheap Canadian content (especially sports) is important for networks with the CANCON regulations.  Why do you think TSN puts the same CFL game on four channels rather than showing an American produced MLS game for example.  It may not bring much money but I do believe that there will be some market for them.

I don't disagree...I just said I think not having teams in the biggest media markets might effect the size of any potential TV deal..

[Kent]

29 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Not aware of that but that could easily just mean that there will be no teams in communities like Flin Flon, Iqaluit or Corner Brook or something like that.

Yeah, I tried to do some digging on the forum here but couldn't find whatever I thought I had heard. With all the info coming out with various levels of reliability, it's easy to get a bit confused. Looks like I got confused this time.

[rob.notenboom]

If the original six have one market that is under 750,000, is that a big market approach or a small market approach?

[Gordon]

50 minutes ago, Kent said:

Yeah, I tried to do some digging on the forum here but couldn't find whatever I thought I had heard. With all the info coming out with various levels of reliability, it's easy to get a bit confused. Looks like I got confused this time.

I had posted in the stadium thread that Bierne had stated at the Sask meet & greet that teams 3-6 were in cities you'd expect to be in the league. And stated my inference that this meant larger cities. So, if you don't have me on ignore, that may be where you saw it. Incidently, there is always more than one reason contributing to my willingness to state an inference and in this case the timelines Belen referenced to put up a stadium, pop-up or modular, are such that cities 3-6 would need to have access to an appropriate venue, even if only a bridge, that was already existing. Not many "smaller" centres have this infrastructure.

[Kent]

1 hour ago, Gordon said:

I had posted in the stadium thread that Bierne had stated at the Sask meet & greet that teams 3-6 were in cities you'd expect to be in the league. And stated my inference that this meant larger cities. So, if you don't have me on ignore, that may be where you saw it. Incidently, there is always more than one reason contributing to my willingness to state an inference and in this case the timelines Belen referenced to put up a stadium, pop-up or modular, are such that cities 3-6 would need to have access to an appropriate venue, even if only a bridge, that was already existing. Not many "smaller" centres have this infrastructure.

Ah, thanks. The flaw in my search was that I thought the word "expect" was in your post. Turns out you said "ought".

"if you think of cities that ought to be in the league, they're probably on the list"
-Gordon's quote paraphrasing Paul Beirne

[Rheo]

For lack of a better place to put it, Man City investing more in North American soccer.  No CPL mention but of course that doesn't stop people from Twitter from hashtagging it to this lol.  Just found it interesting

http://fcbusiness.co.uk/news/article/newsitem=5087/title=city+football+group+announces+joint+venture+with+goals+soccer+centres+in+us+and+canada

[harrycoyster]

5 minutes ago, Rheo said:

For lack of a better place to put it, Man City investing more in North American soccer.  No CPL mention but of course that doesn't stop people from Twitter from hashtagging it to this lol.  Just found it interesting

http://fcbusiness.co.uk/news/article/newsitem=5087/title=city+football+group+announces+joint+venture+with+goals+soccer+centres+in+us+and+canada

It seems like this is more of a partnership with an English pay-to-play 5-a-side company that is expanding into North America than a legitimate investment in youth soccer like what Barcelona is doing in Arizona.

[Gopherbashi]

39 minutes ago, Kent said:

Ah, thanks. The flaw in my search was that I thought the word "expect" was in your post. Turns out you said "ought".

"if you think of cities that ought to be in the league, they're probably on the list"
-Gordon's quote paraphrasing Paul Beirne

Not that this quote really tells us a lot, because there's two ways to interpret it:

Cities that the average person think ought to be in the league, which would be your major urban centres, or

Cities that this crowd has heard rumours about and therefore think ought to be in the league, which is your KW/Fraser types.

[Gordon]

20 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

Not that this quote really tells us a lot, because there's two ways to interpret it:

Cities that the average person think ought to be in the league, which would be your major urban centres, or

Cities that this crowd has heard rumours about and therefore think ought to be in the league, which is your KW/Fraser types.

Should just stress that this was a paraphrase not a direct quote. I had my hand wrapped around a Venezuelan Cuba Libre not a writing implement. 

[Gopherbashi]

52 minutes ago, Gordon said:

Should just stress that this was a paraphrase not a direct quote. I had my hand wrapped around a Venezuelan Cuba Libre not a writing implement. 

Well then you've let us all down. 

[Complete Homer]

Worthwhile read from the SF Deltas' CEO about their struggles and plans. Probably relevant attendance comparisons. I find the discussion about fan retention interesting, I think we tend to assume (myself included) that it's the same group of fans with a niche interest showing up, doesn't look to be the case in SF 

https://medium.com/@bhelmick/sf-deltas-ceo-challenge-to-fans-2801e726bb6?mc_cid=c1315a3918&mc_eid=d22af8080f

[ironcub14]

1 hour ago, Complete Homer said:

Worthwhile read from the SF Deltas' CEO about their struggles and plans. Probably relevant attendance comparisons. I find the discussion about fan retention interesting, I think we tend to assume (myself included) that it's the same group of fans with a niche interest showing up, doesn't look to be the case in SF 

https://medium.com/@bhelmick/sf-deltas-ceo-challenge-to-fans-2801e726bb6?mc_cid=c1315a3918&mc_eid=d22af8080f

Fantastic article, thanks for sharing.

The comments on that article were illuminating as well. A lot of points were made about the pricing of the tickets, the competing sport options in the city, and the location of the stadium. All factors that each and every CPL club will have to factor in week in, week out.

Edited July 27, 2017 by ironcub14

[ReedOnTheGrand]

Just a fact I'd like to bring up surrounding travel. The longest travel that could happen in CPL(almost certainly) is Victoria to St. John's, at 8h 35m. The current longest trip in NASL would be Edmonton to Puerto Rico, there's no direct flights(I could find). This would mean a seven and a half to 8 hour flight to Miami then another 2h 30min flight to Puerto Rico, even if your layover is only an hour you're looking at a 12h trip, almost 50% longer than the longest trip (reasonably)possible in the CPL.

Travel will be an issue but it won't even be the worst for Canadian soccer teams. 

[BenFisk'sBiggestFan]

4 hours ago, ReedOnTheGrand said:

Just a fact I'd like to bring up surrounding travel. The longest travel that could happen in CPL(almost certainly) is Victoria to St. John's, at 8h 35m. The current longest trip in NASL would be Edmonton to Puerto Rico, there's no direct flights(I could find). This would mean a seven and a half to 8 hour flight to Miami then another 2h 30min flight to Puerto Rico, even if your layover is only an hour you're looking at a 12h trip, almost 50% longer than the longest trip (reasonably)possible in the CPL.

Travel will be an issue but it won't even be the worst for Canadian soccer teams. 

FC Edmonton has had travel that has taken up to 22 hrs. They run into problems with flights and transfers at least three times a year. This year alone they had a nightmare trip to Puerto Rico that took 22 hrs as well as a cancelled flight from Ottawa to Indy. In the case of the cancelled flight they had to take a bus. Currently the shortest flight Edmonton has is to San Francisco and that is 4.5 hrs. 

I think this is a good example of how the league will be able to have a decent level of play with only 6000 people in the stands. In order for Edmonton to break even currently they need at least 9,000 per game. with cheaper travel it shouldn't be to much of a problem to have a similar level of play as the NASL. 

I am sure FC Edmonton has trouble attracting players with the travel times as well. They are much more likely to play in the U.S.A. somewhere where they don't have to spend almost 24 hours on a plane to play a game. With lighter travel it should be easier to attract players.

[lazlo_80]

9 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

Worthwhile read from the SF Deltas' CEO about their struggles and plans. Probably relevant attendance comparisons. I find the discussion about fan retention interesting, I think we tend to assume (myself included) that it's the same group of fans with a niche interest showing up, doesn't look to be the case in SF 

https://medium.com/@bhelmick/sf-deltas-ceo-challenge-to-fans-2801e726bb6?mc_cid=c1315a3918&mc_eid=d22af8080f

Do not cry for this team or their predicament. As much as I root for Canadian talent the way this team launched was so incredibly asinine on so many levels that I could write a thousand word post about it. And that's not even including the fact they have a fidget spinner for a logo. 

[Complete Homer]

35 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said:

Do not cry for this team or their predicament. As much as I root for Canadian talent the way this team launched was so incredibly asinine on so many levels that I could write a thousand word post about it. And that's not even including the fact they have a fidget spinner for a logo. 

I'm not really emotionally invested in the team (and I'm not exactly sure trying to guilt-trip your small core of die-hards into bringing friends to games is the sign of an extremely professional setup), but I do think there are plenty of lessons to learn.

Wouldn't mind hearing your 1000 word post on it actually, if you've been paying closer attention to them. The marketing did seem out of touch with today's trend towards classic/nostalgic branding and the stadium seemed to be located distantly from the city they claimed to represent...anything else you'd take from them?

Edited July 28, 2017 by Complete Homer

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

14 hours ago, ironcub14 said:

The comments on that article were illuminating as well. A lot of points were made about the pricing of the tickets, the competing sport options in the city, and the location of the stadium. All factors that each and every CPL club will have to factor in week in, week out.

Some markets will work and others won't, which is why launching with six is a massive risk and seven and eight need to be solidly in the pipeline so numbers can be maintained if there are a couple of fiascos. If there's one thing that's interesting about the Deltas it is that hardcore soccer people in the biggest name prestigious city in the Bay Area that would be needed to build a large season ticket base still seem to be gravitating towards the MLS team out in the less prestigious city in the 'burbs. If Hamilton had obtained the MLS team back in 2007, it would be a bit like Toronto soccer people still going to watch them rather than a new team with Toronto branding playing at Lamport. I suspect that may have run counter to what the investors were anticipating.

Beyond that I suspect it's the lack of repeat customers that is scaring the Deltas ownership the most, because they probably were not expecting to have to repeat the year one level of marketing just to be able to draw as few as 2000 spectators (which will be way below their break even) as a lot more people were supposed to be hooked after sampling the product. When you are facing the prospect of a decade of low seven figure losses to gain traction not all investors are like the Fath brothers regardless of what they say in the build up to year one.

Edited July 28, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[ironcub14]

9 hours ago, lazlo_80 said:

Do not cry for this team or their predicament. As much as I root for Canadian talent the way this team launched was so incredibly asinine on so many levels that I could write a thousand word post about it. And that's not even including the fact they have a fidget spinner for a logo. 

I'd like to hear some more about it as well, even if in bullet point form or something.

The little I've seen, I haven't looked hard for it, from NASL Reddit for example was that the club is really disconnected from the local community clubs or something like that? That's fine, and that's one good reason, but I'd definitely like to hear some more about what of its launch was so asinine exactly.

Will read this again for the morning, maybe jump into BigSoccer if I'm feeling the itch lol.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NASLSoccer/comments/6pxxwh/sf_deltas_ceo_challenge_to_fans_brian_helmick/

 

Edited July 28, 2017 by ironcub14

[Ansem]

Seems nobody caught that from Joey Saputo:

"Saputo on investments in MLS (referring to Atlanta): "It's becoming harder for small teams like us to compete"

 

[mpg_29]

Saputo on a 3rd DP: "Financially, it becomes very difficult to have 3 players designated of the caliber of Piatti & Dzemaili in Montreal"

Sort of confusing unless their attendance numbers are inccorect...how much do Impact tickets on average cost?

Edited July 28, 2017 by mpg_29

[MtlMario]

Maybe good news for CPL  sometime down the line.

18 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Seems nobody caught that from Joey Saputo:

"Saputo on investments in MLS (referring to Atlanta): "It's becoming harder for small teams like us to compete"

 

 

[Ansem]

9 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

Saputo on a 3rd DP: "Financially, it becomes very difficult to have 3 players designated of the caliber of Piatti & Dzemaili in Montreal"

Sort of confusing unless their attendance numbers are inccorect...how much do Impact tickets on average cost?

https://www.impactmontreal.com/en/tickets/individual

from 19$ to 89$

[Ansem]

13 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

Maybe good news for CPL  sometime down the line.

 

That's the danger that CPL must avoid. Relying that heavily on ticket sales...but what do I know, MLS finances are so complex that even the media are still scratching their heads

The Saputo are rich but seems that Joey is starting to feel the financial pressure. Might be a good time to ask "daddy" for help or to partner with him.

This isn't the first time he goes public on the negative finances of the team. He had told Journal de Montreal that the team had yet to break even since joining MLS and he "hoped" to achieve that within 5 years. Inconsistent attendance was the source of the problem

Edited July 28, 2017 by Ansem