CPL General

[harrycoyster]

9 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

NAM, are you in T&C? I saw a CBC program years ago about annexng the islands.  Is this something that the residents would be interested at all or just joking around?

I recall reading an article that T&C interest in joining Canada was at like 95% in the early 90s, but dropped to around 50/50 in the early 2000s and was fairly low last time a poll was done around a decade ago. I know that in the 90s their economy basically relied on Canadian tourists, but increasing ties to the US and the full adoption of US currency has meant we aren't their lifeblood anymore.

I also don't think they took kindly to the NDP's "Canada needs it's own Hawaii" thing. It looks there has been consistent independence votes since 2010. So they are probably more focused on that now. 

[dyslexic nam]

4 minutes ago, rob.notenboom said:

Of course a PEI SG would be called the Spud Buds. 

I already trademarked "Charlottetown AnneofGreenGablespotatolobsters"

[Initial B]

On 7/24/2017 at 1:46 PM, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

I'd be careful on making statements like that as there was talk of the fans being told to be ready for a mid-August anouncement at one point on here from what I remember and if it's not Saskatchewan, there are not that many other possibilities. The only obvious problems with where they are right now are the permanent football markings and running track, but there are ways to fix the former if not the latter, which doesn't seem to be seen as an issue on here whenever Moncton gets discussed. In capacity terms the 6000 listed on wikipedia should be fine.

But for the CPL to be taken seriously, they have to include the largest cities first. If you talk to a Canadian they'll say that outside of the VIP big three cities, Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa, Hamilton, Winnipeg, and Quebec City (and maybe Halifax and Regina) would be considered A-list cities for a team. B-list cities such as St John's, Moncton, Saskatoon, London, and Victoria (and maybe Windsor, K-W, and Kelowna) would also be considered worthy of CPL teams by at least the population in their region (though maybe not a TV draw). But the rest of the Canadian cities would be a disconnect to fans if they were in CPL and it was considered major league. It wouldn't pass the smell test with them, and perception is important.

I wonder if they should stay away from focusing on cities in the team names and instead focus on something about the area that identifies them. For example:

Vancouver - Fraser Valley SC, FC Salish 

Toronto - Fort York Arsenal, Azzurri FC, Credit River SC, Rouge Nuclear FC 

Halifax - Wanderers FC

Quebec City - CdF du Citadel

Winnipeg - Red River FC

Calgary - Foothills FC, Cowboys SC

Hamilton - Ironmen SC

Montreal - CdF Mont Royale, Rosemount Anglos FC

Edmonton... I got nothin'

Ottawa - FC Senators (yeah, I went there - no love lost between OSEG and Melnyk), Fury FC

Regina - Boneyard FC

Saskatoon - North Saskatchewan SC

Moncton - Fundy/Maritimers SC

St John's - The Rock FC

Victoria - Highlanders FC

London - Tempest FC (thinking of Stratford)

Kelowna - Okanagan SC

Kitchener-Waterloo - Mennonite FC

Just some ideas to bat around...

 

[Rheo]

CPL will go nowhere near the MLS cities at the start.  Suburbs mainly at some point but they'll get the league established first before heading into the heart of those cities.

[m-g-williams]

27 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I already trademarked "Charlottetown AnneofGreenGablespotatolobsters"

I'm rather partial to the "Charlottetown Confederationgolfcoursereddirtclamdiggers", myself.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

24 minutes ago, Initial B said:

But for the CPL to be taken seriously, they have to include the largest cities first. If you talk to a Canadian they'll say that outside of the VIP big three cities, Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa, Hamilton, Winnipeg, and Quebec City (and maybe Halifax and Regina) would be considered A-list cities for a team...

The way things are shaping up at the moment it looks like Fraser Valley, Kitchener-Waterloo, Saskatoon and Halifax will probably be four of the first eight. That might not be taken seriously somewhere like downtown Toronto, but it probably would/will be in the markets that are directly involved and with a business plan in mind that is gate driven rather than TSN driven as Paul Beirne has indicated that's really all that matters. It looks like they are aiming for something a bit like junior hockey. Draws flies in Toronto when a team is based there because they have the NHL for the direct TFC counterpart, but 5000+ is very much doable in cities like London even when it's only the Free Press and the local radio and channel 10 TV news that are covering it. Cities like London are too small for CFL expansion and minor league baseball is usually weak to nonexistent, so there is a niche very much available for a summer pro league to fill. If they are really expecting 2500-3000 initially rather than the publicly stated aspiration of 4500-5500 and are willing to wait for it to build from there FC Edmonton style, I could even see it working.

Edited July 25, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Rheo]

Just starting but the Sea-to-Sea podcast has some interviews from the L1O/PLSQ all star game with some CPL talk they promise

http://www.northernstartingeleven.com/canada-soccer-sea-to-sea-podcast-season-2-l1o-plsq-bonus-episode/

[Rheo]

45 minutes ago, Rheo said:

Just starting but the Sea-to-Sea podcast has some interviews from the L1O/PLSQ all star game with some CPL talk they promise

http://www.northernstartingeleven.com/canada-soccer-sea-to-sea-podcast-season-2-l1o-plsq-bonus-episode/

Has clips from Dino Rossi, Anthony "Boom" Totera, Paul Beirne and some coaches and some players from the game.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Rheo

[Ansem]

5 minutes ago, Rheo said:

CPL will go nowhere near the MLS cities at the start.  Suburbs mainly at some point but they'll get the league established first before heading into the heart of those cities.

Vancouver: No need to do that when there's Surrey and Burnaby

Montreal Island: Depends who's the owner

• The Molsons & Downtown: Owns the Montreal Canadiens. The organization had ordered studies to see if NBA could work in Montreal. If they were ever interested in diversifying, I'm not liking Saputo's chances to compete against the Habs marketing machine and a stadium downtown Montreal with 3 subway lines (yellow goes to South Shore/Longueuil 400k and all the commuter trains converging there. Saputo Stadium isn't that convenient to access.. far from the highways, far east and only the green line going there. I rarely went myself because it was too far. My dad always wanted season tickets but was turned off by the location.
• North side of the Mountain: Université de Montreal grounds would work as it's the most densely populated area on the Island. The following boroughs (Cotes-Des-Neiges/NDG, Outremont, Plateau Mont-Royal, Villeray-St.Michel-Parc Extension, Montreal-Nord, Ahuntsic-Cartierville) accounted in 2011 for over 642k Montrealers. (40% of Montrealers at that time). Orange (all the way into Laval with 400k habitants) and Blue subway lines, heavily immigrant population.
• West Island Anglophones: Last census was in 2006 with over 230k west islanders. To have lived in Montreal-West, I don't buy a second that many of them drive all the way east for the Impact, let alone transit which is a nightmare I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. The city is pretty much cut in half by highway 15 Decarie. The money, corporation, identity and western suburb population is big enough to support their own club. Historically, West Island anglophone like to do things separately from the francophone.

Montreal Island can support more than 1 club

Toronto: we all know the answer to that with North York (672k), Scarborough (632k) or anywhere Midtown. Don't know about Etobicoke but with over 365k, they could.

[stevensandor]

One thing I see a lot of when people talk about a potential market is the size of the metro area. It's valid, of course. But  the average income in an area is just as important. Who cares if a city has a million people if most of them don't have money to spend on things like soccer tickets? And, if you have a city of 100,000 where everyone has money to burn, well that's more attractive to sponsors than being in a place where no money is being spent. The average income (spending power, how much disposable income people have to spend on things like tickets, merch and streaming services) is very important.

Here is the StatsCan list of Canadian metro areas by median household income.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/famil107a-eng.htm

[Complete Homer]

2 hours ago, stevensandor said:

One thing I see a lot of when people talk about a potential market is the size of the metro area. It's valid, of course. But  the average income in an area is just as important. Who cares if a city has a million people if most of them don't have money to spend on things like soccer tickets? And, if you have a city of 100,000 where everyone has money to burn, well that's more attractive to sponsors than being in a place where no money is being spent. The average income (spending power, how much disposable income people have to spend on things like tickets, merch and streaming services) is very important.

Here is the StatsCan list of Canadian metro areas by median household income.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/famil107a-eng.htm

Very good point. Also, disproportionate presence of corporations capable of sponsorship in cities that serve as the center for an unusually large area (like Regina) also contributes to their viability beyond what one might expect of a small city

[Ansem]

27 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

Very good point. Also, disproportionate presence of corporations capable of sponsorship in cities that serve as the center for an unusually large area (like Regina) also contributes to their viability beyond what one might expect of a small city

That's why I always thought St.Johns could work. High family revenues and oil companies are there for corporate support

[mpg_29]

13 minutes ago, Ansem said:

That's why I always thought St.Johns could work. High family revenues and oil companies are there for corporate support

St John's could work...I just think it wouldn't be in the first few years. I think if the league gets to 12+ teams St John's could be in the mix.

Big issue would be if there is also a team in Vancouver/Victoria area....that would be a lot of travel distance with 4.5 hour time adjustment on top of it. 

[Kent]

To go back to @harrycoyster's question about 12 teams tier 1, 12 teams tier 2 vs 24 teams tier 1. I think it makes sense only if there are cost saving measures in tier 2 that makes it more viable for smaller cities. I've said in the past about pro/rel in relation to L1O/PLSQ promoting up to pro leagues that it would probably only make sense if there were several of those D3 leagues promoting into probably 2 D2 leagues. An Eastern and a Western. Then you could have the teams that get relegated from CPL landing in a league that would have less travel to cut costs (plus no doubt reduced player wages).

Its also important to point out that pro/rel isn't beneficial to the top league in the pyramid, it's beneficial to the lower leagues. If we were to one day have a pyramid with pro/rel, that would probably be good for 2nd, and potentially 3rd tier leagues, which would be good for player development.

But, we are getting way ahead of ourselves. I am just looking forward to a starting list of 6 or so teams and a date for the league opening game.

[SuperCanuck]

9 hours ago, Initial B said:

But for the CPL to be taken seriously, they have to include the largest cities first. If you talk to a Canadian they'll say that outside of the VIP big three cities, Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa, Hamilton, Winnipeg, and Quebec City (and maybe Halifax and Regina) would be considered A-list cities for a team. B-list cities such as St John's, Moncton, Saskatoon, London, and Victoria (and maybe Windsor, K-W, and Kelowna) would also be considered worthy of CPL teams by at least the population in their region (though maybe not a TV draw). But the rest of the Canadian cities would be a disconnect to fans if they were in CPL and it was considered major league. It wouldn't pass the smell test with them, and perception is important.

I wonder if they should stay away from focusing on cities in the team names and instead focus on something about the area that identifies them. For example:

Vancouver - Fraser Valley SC, FC Salish 

Toronto - Fort York Arsenal, Azzurri FC, Credit River SC, Rouge Nuclear FC 

Halifax - Wanderers FC

Quebec City - CdF du Citadel

Winnipeg - Red River FC

Calgary - Foothills FC, Cowboys SC

Hamilton - Ironmen SC

Montreal - CdF Mont Royale, Rosemount Anglos FC

Edmonton... I got nothin'

Ottawa - FC Senators (yeah, I went there - no love lost between OSEG and Melnyk), Fury FC

Regina - Boneyard FC

Saskatoon - North Saskatchewan SC

Moncton - Fundy/Maritimers SC

St John's - The Rock FC

Victoria - Highlanders FC

London - Tempest FC (thinking of Stratford)

Kelowna - Okanagan SC

Kitchener-Waterloo - Mennonite FC

Just some ideas to bat around...

 

Vancouver Coffeeslurpers (If you haven't been to Vancouver, it's impossible for 96% of the population to function without holding a cup of coffee.  That includes shopping, talking, driving, etc.)

Edmonton Brickmen was always a great name, I thought.  We used to chant, "You're just a bunch of labourers." at them.

Saint John We'renotinnewfoundlanders

 

[rob.notenboom]

https://juneof86.com/2017/07/26/sowing-soccer-dreams-on-the-prairie/amp/

[Rheo]

Just now, rob.notenboom said:

https://juneof86.com/2017/07/26/sowing-soccer-dreams-on-the-prairie/amp/

Damn just beat me to it lol

[Kent]

10 hours ago, SuperCanuck said:

Vancouver Coffeeslurpers (If you haven't been to Vancouver, it's impossible for 96% of the population to function without holding a cup of coffee.  That includes shopping, talking, driving, etc.)

Really? I've never been to Vancouver but this is counter intuitive, since they get to sleep in later than the rest of the country.

[michaeltfc91]

the teams are not really adding up for me. Regina wants to be 7th, and we kind of already know Ottawa and Edmonton can only be 8 and 9 (in 2019). Who else can be in the original 6 with Winnipeg and Hamilton.

Halifax, most likely. Fraser Valley seems kind of small like KW United. If you have 6 cities, they need to be bigger cities. Where is Calgary Foothills or Quebec City?

The league would look weird starting as Fraser Valley, Winnipeg, KW, Hamilton, Halifax, St. Johns

[Rheo]

Nobody knows for sure lol.  That's why there's posts and posts guessing on who it is.  Part of the fun of the slow roll out (at least I find it fun)

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

24 minutes ago, michaeltfc91 said:

If you have 6 cities, they need to be bigger cities.

Why do they have to be bigger cities? We have been told that the league isn't expecting a national TV deal and hence expects to be mainly gate driven in terms of finances. If anything, it's probably easier to get people excited about relatively low budget sports teams in smaller cities like Halifax. For example in a soccer context, PDL drew better in Victoria in its first iteration and in London, Ont than the Calgary Foothills and WSA Winnipeg have, because a team like that is a significantly bigger story in local media terms when there is no CFL franchise around.

Edited July 26, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Kent]

13 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Why do they have to be bigger cities? We have been told that the league isn't expecting a national TV deal and hence expects to be mainly gate driven in terms of finances. If anything, it's probably easier to get people excited about relatively low budget sports teams in smaller cities like Halifax. For example in a soccer context, PDL drew better in Victoria in its first iteration and in London, Ont than the Calgary Foothills and WSA Winnipeg have, because a team like that is a significantly bigger story in local media terms when there is no CFL franchise around.

I agree with basically everything you said, but I would say that the answer to your (rhetorical) question is that I believe Paul Beirne has said something about the first 6 teams being the kind of places you would expect of a pro league... didn't he? I will not be able to come up with a reference for this. So much of the information I get is second hand transcribed stuff from podcasts that I don't listen to.

[Rheo]

Only with the big cities will people take it seriously.  Only with the big cities can they get TV.  Only with the big cities will it not look bush league.  Etc, etc, etc.

I call BS on this for the record but this is just a sampling of reasons I've seen on here

[mpg_29]

9 minutes ago, Rheo said:

Only with the big cities will people take it seriously.  Only with the big cities can they get TV.  Only with the big cities will it not look bush league.  Etc, etc, etc.

I call BS on this for the record but this is just a sampling of reasons I've seen on here

I think this one has some validity tough...at least in terms of the size of any potential TV deal the league would get..

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

25 minutes ago, Kent said:

...I believe Paul Beirne has said something about the first 6 teams being the kind of places you would expect of a pro league... didn't he?...

Not aware of that but that could easily just mean that there will be no teams in communities like Flin Flon, Iqaluit or Corner Brook or something like that. The three MLS markets don't appear to be a factor and Edmonton and Ottawa seem somewhat unlikely for 2018 because of issues related to the midseason start, so if those assumptions are correct that leaves Calgary in the million plus range and pretty much requires that three of six be relatively small non-CFL markets. The Foothills do seem to be involved based on recent posts and media articles, but the sticking point there seems to be a suitable place to play. I suspect viable stadium solutions are so difficult to come up with that they will determine the order that cities get involved more than factors like a list of population sizes, because the era of shoehorning soccer into whatever football gridiron is available and hoping for the best appears to be over thankfully.

1 minute ago, mpg_29 said:

I think this one has some validity tough...at least in terms of the size of any potential TV deal the league would get..

We have already been told by Paul Beirne on a podcast that they are not budgeting for a TV deal, and will be focussing more on the streaming side of things.