CPL General

[matty]

7 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

It's actually up to eight years now on the lost momentum thing, unfortunately. Three groups were said to be looking at USL Pro D3 level back in 2010 when Tony Waiters was hired by USL to facilitate Canadian expansion and the CSA decided to slap the moratorium on it. Two of the three cities involved seldom feature when possible CanPL locations are discussed.

The block was lifted under 2 years later so they could have reapplied but by then there was an anti-USL vibe.

Victoria did shift focus to NASL in like 2013 but nothing came of it.

[Complete Homer]

The moratorium expired years ago. If there's been another, fine, that point stands. But assuming there has been another moratorium since the first is largely conjecture, and hasn't been supported by any documentation. It would seem like a stretch to me for there to be a secret moratorium off the books

The fact is that there is relatively little independent investment in soccer in general. The reason that nothing has happened in the intervening years could quite easily be for the opposite as being suggested. Maybe many are afraid to start in isolation like Fath. 

Edited December 1, 2017 by Complete Homer

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, ted said:

Now you are contradicting yourself,  and at the same time, arguing something that is irrelevant.

You say you are being, "specific to the business side of it" and yet you admit that MLS is a,  "top league"  money-wise. No matter how you classify leagues around the world there is a valid case for MLS as being top twenty and even, depending on the metrics, top ten.  Does it make their players the best in the world, HELL NO,  but it certainly places them above us and the CanPL.

I'm just talking level/quality of play. I know that economically, they are up there

1 hour ago, ted said:

they don't have to be the best league in the world for the CanPL to feed into them. All MLS has to do is pay players more than CanPL does. It's a simple business reality and the only way to really measure a players "worth" unfortunately.  

All I'm saying, I don't mind the current transfer market. I just keep saying how absurd the whole idea of MLS B teams or even affiliations is. Also, such transactions can go both ways for different reasons, we see it in Europe all the time

[ted]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

All I'm saying, I don't mind the current transfer market. I just keep saying how absurd the whole idea of MLS B teams or even affiliations is. 

Ah, OK I see now.  As I said, I agree on the, "B Teams" question and since the track-record of developing players isn't there, I see no advantage to MLS teams of having CanPL teams as formal affiliates. By all means buy players or loan players as is done in Europe on a case-by-case basis but sign agreements and pay a general fee? Not needed.

[grasshopper1917]

CPL 2029!

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

17 hours ago, ted said:

Ah, OK I see now.  As I said, I agree on the, "B Teams" question and since the track-record of developing players isn't there, I see no advantage to MLS teams of having CanPL teams as formal affiliates. By all means buy players or loan players as is done in Europe on a case-by-case basis but sign agreements and pay a general fee? Not needed.

Possibly from the narrow perspective of the mechanics of loaning out players in an ideal world sort of scenario, but a rebranded TFC affiliate operation partnering up with a local group in a nearby Ontario city (there was a prominent poster on here claiming at one point to have been told that it might happen in London, but who knows how much substance there really was to that) and something similar happening in BC and Quebec with the Whitecaps and Impact would have gone a long way to getting this thing off the launch pad for 2018. Seems to me that an inability to put the numbers together to even be able to launch is much more of a "fatal mistake" than having teams on board with some young players farmed out to them from another higher budget league.

Regardless of what happened on that, it would soon be blindingly obvious to everybody that understands the offside rule that MLS remains Canada's top soccer league in much the same way that the NBA, NHL and MLB are for basketball, hockey and baseball, given the disparity in operating budgets and market sizes involved. Saskatoon vs Halifax or TFC vs New York City with DP signings like Giovinco and Pirlo? With the build up that is now underway to next weekend's MLS Cup game at BMO Field, I suspect most people outside of the bubble on the CanPL launch issue would find it mildly mind blowing that there could be prominent figures in Canadian soccer that don't see MLS as being the best thing that ever happened to pro soccer in Canada. 

Edited December 2, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Ansem]

2 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Possibly from the narrow perspective of the mechanics of loaning out players in an ideal world sort of scenario, but a rebranded TFC affiliate operation partnering up with a local group in a nearby Ontario city (there was a prominent poster on here claiming at one point to have been told that it might happen in London, but who knows how much substance there really was to that) and something similar happening in BC and Quebec with the Whitecaps and Impact would have gone a long way to getting this thing off the launch pad for 2018.

Where would the Impact play from? Enlighten us? Them being in CPL doesn't change the fact that teams not having their stadiums built would still stall the launch.

2 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Seems to me that an inability to put the numbers together to even be able to launch is much more of a "fatal mistake" than having teams on board with some young players farmed out to them from another higher budget league.

Fatal mistake? Dealing with municipalities is out of the league's control.

2 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Regardless of what happened on that, it would soon be blindingly obvious to everybody that understands the offside rule that MLS remains Canada's top soccer league in much the same way that the NBA, NHL and MLB are for basketball, hockey and baseball, given the disparity in operating budgets and market sizes involved.

If that was such a factor, why aren't Canadians watching it outside of the 3 markets? Why are you so against the rest of Canada having it's top league? Is it a Toronto "is the center of the universe" complex? That no one outside of the main city can't have something good going on for them and you need TFC to dump their C team in it to spoil it for the rest of the country? How arrogant...really.

MLS made it clear that the rest of the country will never have a team, why are you so adamant to spoil it for those who won't get MLS? Are you going to start a media campaign advertising to people in Halifax or Victoria that their league is crap compare to MLS?  Why is that so important to you to hit that point endlessly?

TFC is in MLS, enjoy them by all mean, doesn't mean CPL shouldn't give itself all the chances to succeed. Regarding budgets, we won't be on par with MLS but CPL can be a top 3 or 4 league budget-wise in CONCACAF. Why shouldn't we?

2 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Saskatoon vs Halifax or TFC vs New York City with DP signings like Giovinco and Pirlo?

MLS with their terrible marketing in Canada ensured that outside of the 3 markets, the overwhelming majority of Canadians could care less about TFC vs NYC. Why are you always posting dick measuring posts??? What does it matter to your life that Halifax and Saskatoon are more likely to support their teams within CPL than TFC? You're being really childish through your posts. Pessimism is one thing but these posts are childish

2 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

With the build up that is now underway to next weekend's MLS Cup game at BMO Field, I suspect most people outside of the bubble on the CanPL launch issue would find it mildly mind blowing that there could be prominent figures in Canadian soccer that don't see MLS as being the best thing that ever happened to pro soccer in Canada. 

MLS is a great thing that happened to Canada. It really opened eyes that a soccer league can work in Canada and can make money. MLS will always be credited for CPL being a thing. However we can improve on that by having our own league coast to coast by bringing a major league to other Canadian markets that will never see an MLS team and that's a good thing.

You still haven't answered my question...How's status quo helping Canadian soccer? How's allowing farm team in CPL helps our national program? Why won't you answer?

Edited December 2, 2017 by Ansem

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Have answered your questions at the end many times on here so see no need to do it yet again just for your benefit and given I went to pretty much every London Lasers home game that was ever played in the original CSL I don't need any lectures on what it means to be a fan of a domestic pro soccer league in Canada. Would have been nice to see London get a USL D3 team rather than having that possibility derailed by Victor Montagliani and the CSA for a wild goose chase that has yet to reach its conclusion fully seven years later.

[Ansem]

24 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Have answered your questions at the end many times on here so see no need to do it yet again just for your benefit and given I went to pretty much every London Lasers home game that was ever played in the original CSL I don't need any lectures on what it means to be a fan of a domestic pro soccer league in Canada. Would have been nice to see London get a USL D3 team rather than having that possibility derailed by Victor Montagliani and the CSA for a wild goose chase that has yet to reach its conclusion fully seven years later.

I get you're bitter about the old CSL. Safe to say that the CSA of today aren't the CSA of old times.

The CSA wants all it's teams under its pyramid. There's nothing wrong with fixing past wrongs, mainly signing away pro soccer to the Americans. 

If the current system under the USSF had gave any results (HEX, WC), I would see your point. However, that's not what happened. We've been worse and worse. Where are the results justifying doubling down that path?

That's the flaw in your logic. That belief that more D3 teams in Canada will somehow allow us to compete in CONCACAF and qualify for world cups? 

How will we ever beat or surpass the Americans if we rely on just 3 MLS clubs + a bunch of D3 teams while they seem like they will grow to over 40 D1 teams? Aren't we in this to win or are we in this to just participate next to big brother USA?

CPL isn't a 1 fit solution, but it helps us more than having more D3 teams. I want my country to not only qualify but be competitive in a world cup, your vision ensures that we never get there and you don't seem to care.

MLS Cup right? Why not being greedy and embrace the fact that we could have our cake and eat it too? I like the thought of a Canadian team dominating an American league while developing a new top CONCACAF league. That my friend is a position I respect. You seem to just want us to stay submissive to the US system. I get that's how some of your generation saw the world, not this one and it's about damn time.

Edited December 2, 2017 by Ansem

[Gopherbashi]

http://www.nisaofficial.com/2017/12/01/nisa-update/

It would be really nice if we could get official updates like this from our league from time to time...

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

 

[toontownman]

On the upside there is a meeting. On the downside it is to postpone the league until 2119.

[harrycoyster]

 

1 hour ago, Gopherbashi said:

http://www.nisaofficial.com/2017/12/01/nisa-update/

It would be really nice if we could get official updates like this from our league from time to time...

It really is bizarre that we literally haven't gotten an official statement of any kind from the league since May. 

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, harrycoyster said:

 

It really is bizarre that we literally haven't gotten an official statement of any kind from the league since May. 

It means they aren't ready to come out with an announcement. 

Nothing screams more amateurish than telling journalists that you have teams but you're not sure out of which stadiums they'll play from.

If you make an announcement, you better be able to answer all the questions.

Since over 90% of the population aren't even aware of CPL, hardcore like us are just being impatient, the league is right to not make a press conference without being 100% ready.

People are quick to forget that MLS start wasn't grandiose. They ended up starting later with fewer teams than announced, CPL wants a great start. Nothing bizarre about It 

Edited December 2, 2017 by Ansem

[harrycoyster]

Just now, Ansem said:

It means they aren't ready to come out with an announcement. 

Nothing screams more amateurish than telling journalists that you have teams but you're not sure out of which stadiums they'll play from.

If you make an announcement, you better be able to answer all the questions.

Since over 90% of the population aren't even aware of CPL, hardcore like us are just being impatient, the league is right to not make a press conference without being 100% sure

They don't need to wait for a new team to send out a press release or put a feature up on the website. General updates, pieces on confirmed CPL owners, Q&As, league rules, stadium plans, league management structure, etc. There are hundreds of things they could do to keep people engaged.

The league announcement is/was the biggest piece on national attention the league will get before an Opening Day is set. If you aren't planning on keeping people engaged what was the point of announcing the league so early? 

[Ansem]

32 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

They don't need to wait for a new team to send out a press release or put a feature up on the website. General updates, pieces on confirmed CPL owners, Q&As, league rules, stadium plans, league management structure, etc. There are hundreds of things they could do to keep people engaged.

The league announcement is/was the biggest piece on national attention the league will get before an Opening Day is set. If you aren't planning on keeping people engaged what was the point of announcing the league so early? 

Safe to say that they aren't ready, plain and simple.

Also, us hardcore, they already have us. The casuals and none fans out there including the media is what will make or break the league and they can't afford a bad start. 

Let's try some patience?

Also, they aren't dumb enough to do it in the middle of the MLS playoffs, let alone during the MLS cup with TFC being there. Next winter is more likely that they'll have news and ride the World Cup buzz to hype the league in the summer while MLS will stop activities as well. 

 Picking a news cycle where nothing is going on within North American soccer is really a no brainer. They'll have everyone's attention during the winter (No MLS) and Summer (No MLS + riding the World Cup buzz)

Then the good stuff comes out until launch keeping people hooked and excited (coaches, players, stadiums, team names, uniforms, winter transfer). What's the incentive to come out now? 

Edited December 2, 2017 by Ansem

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

52 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

...If you aren't planning on keeping people engaged what was the point of announcing the league so early? 

The early announcement was probably to keep Victor Montagliani happy as it was his last day in the job as CSA president and pushing for a domestic pro league was the issue he had used in a populist sort of way to clamber his way up the greasy pole to high office. After that the problem probably was precisely that it had been done prematurely before they had enough genuine applicants in place to put the numbers together for a launch rather than people like Tom Fath going to meetings to hear their sales pitch and more transparency in a NISA sort of way would have made that obvious.

Edited December 2, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[harrycoyster]

35 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Safe to say that they aren't ready, plain and simple.

Also, us hardcore, they already have us. The casuals and none fans out there including the media is what will make or break the league and they can't afford a bad start. 

Let's try some patience?

Also, they aren't dumb enough to do it in the middle of the MLS playoffs, let alone during the MLS cup with TFC being there. Next winter is more likely that they'll have news and ride the World Cup buzz to hype the league in the summer while MLS will stop activities as well. 

 Picking a news cycle where nothing is going on within North American soccer is really a no brainer. They'll have everyone's attention during the winter (No MLS) and Summer (No MLS + riding the World Cup buzz)

Then the good stuff comes out until launch keeping people hooked and excited (coaches, players, stadiums, team names, uniforms, winter transfer). What's the incentive to come out now? 

So you agree that announcing the league when they did was a poor decision?

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, harrycoyster said:

So you agree that announcing the league when they did was a poor decision?

They didn't announce the league lol. The CSA announced their sanctioned of a D1 league under their pyramid, the CPL. 

Can't start a league before getting that sanction so the sooner you get it the better.

Edited December 2, 2017 by Ansem

[harrycoyster]

4 minutes ago, Ansem said:

They didn't announce the league lol. The CSA announced their sanctioned of a D1 league under their pyramid

The CPL literally sent out a press release titled "A New Era in Canadian Soccer Begins - Announcing Canadian Premier League" to all CSA newsletter subscribers and had a professional PR firm publish it to newswires. 

[Ansem]

6 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

The CPL literally sent out a press release titled "A New Era in Canadian Soccer Begins - Announcing Canadian Premier League" to all CSA newsletter subscribers and had a professional PR firm publish it to newswires. 

This nitpicking is ridiculous. The announcement of a top US league on the verge of the 94 World Cup was announced like years before MLS actually launch. CPL been in the work for a while now and yeah, announcing the sanctioning before the league starts is a given. Really.

You're bored today aren't you? No need to bore us with your bias for MLS. We get it already

Edited December 2, 2017 by Ansem

[Ansem]

9 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

The CPL literally sent out a press release titled "A New Era in Canadian Soccer Begins - Announcing Canadian Premier League" to all CSA newsletter subscribers and had a professional PR firm publish it to newswires. 

By the way, that was the CSA. You're funny

[harrycoyster]

3 minutes ago, Ansem said:

By the way, that was the CSA. You're funny

It was not the CSA. This is the press release, filed on the CPL website as their only official press release. Notice how it was handled by a PR firm instead of by the CSA's communications department.

[grasshopper1917]

The one thing theory that I have derived while waiting is when the CPL came calling on Halifax over a year ago they had nothing more then Hamilton (the driving force) and Winnipeg (A stadium that needs more dates) and P.B.  Since then they seem to be getting a little closer to 6 teams with interest in Saskatchewan and BC. Also Halifax now has the go ahead for a pop up stadium. 

I will say this (and it is just a personal impression -  I may be 100% wrong) what I have seen so far does not inspire me to think this is going to be a terrifically run league. Between launch of a terrible web page (inactive and looks like i was designed by a 12 year old), the lack of updates to the handful of supporters who are following developments and seemingly very difficult task of getting 6 ownership groups to get behind a small scale league (proposed 5k-7k fan target).

Like I said I may be 100% wrong it is just my impression from afar - but I feel getting this league going is much harder then it should be.  

[matty]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

Safe to say that they aren't ready, plain and simple.

Also, us hardcore, they already have us. The casuals and none fans out there including the media is what will make or break the league and they can't afford a bad start. 

Let's try some patience?

Also, they aren't dumb enough to do it in the middle of the MLS playoffs, let alone during the MLS cup with TFC being there. Next winter is more likely that they'll have news and ride the World Cup buzz to hype the league in the summer while MLS will stop activities as well. 

 Picking a news cycle where nothing is going on within North American soccer is really a no brainer. They'll have everyone's attention during the winter (No MLS) and Summer (No MLS + riding the World Cup buzz)

Then the good stuff comes out until launch keeping people hooked and excited (coaches, players, stadiums, team names, uniforms, winter transfer). What's the incentive to come out now? 

I do think they could so some small things. Even things that are not really about the league. They're not terribly active on social media or on their own site and I really feel that is a mistake.

Also Ansem whether you like it or not the league was announced just not the first season