CPL General

[Mihairokov]

Will be keeping a close eye on those youtube numbers as compared to what they might be for various other events.

[Cheeta]

34 minutes ago, Big_M said:

all games on the final matchday will be at the same time

 

3 o'clock kickoff on a Saturday afternoon.  There's one for all the old Britballers out there.

[shermanator]

The few games that were live streamed on the OneSoccer Youtube channel last year drew as follows:

• Cavalry vs Ottawa - 8k
• York vs Forge - 6.6k
• Pacific vs Cavalry - 7.8k
• HFX Wanderers vs Cavalry - 12k

Most USL Championship games get 1-3k views. The finals got 11k.

Edited September 20 by shermanator

[Kingston]

4 hours ago, Mihairokov said:

It's mostly just talk. When sports teams go up for sale, especially in Canada, there's only a handful of potential bidders available. Don't believe it when they say there's more than two or three interested parties for a specific market. 

I don't expect they have multiple parties for a given market.  I do believe they've been contacted by people from a number of different markets.  It would not surprise me, however, if a lot of those weren't serious.  For example, I've seen a few reports of cities where some city councilor is in favour of building a stadium and so they mention the idea of a CPL club.  If that person contacts the league, they might be an "interested party" even though they'll never own a team.

4 hours ago, Mihairokov said:

Stadiums are the biggest hurdle to this league, and I'd argue more of a hurdle than the expansion fees. Finding a suitable stadium site, affording it, and then building something half-way professional is arguably more expensive than the fees the league is seeking. Doubly so if the stadium is in a spot which is urban and central. 

I agree that stadiums are probably the biggest hurdle.  This is also what makes me wonder why the league is apparently so determined that any expansion team has to have an ideal stadium.  I mean, I get the idea but if it is setting the bar so high that no one applies, then it's self-defeating.

[Kingston]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Fees is a huge problem because the league doesn't have real value. And if the founders think they're a privileged bunch and others should be grateful to buy in, they're deluded.

We don't know what the fee is.  I don't think it is unreasonable for the league to collect a meaningful expansion fee.  First, because if you don't you're saying the teams have no value.  Second, because the founders, as you call them, do deserve something for taking the chance and going first.  

At this stage in the league's development, however, a realistic expansion fee would have to be pretty low.  Especially when the league also apparently wants new ownership groups to come up with a next to ideal stadium before letting them in.

[Watchmen]

The league has expanded twice and had to take over owning teams twice (one of which they folded). The value on the teams can't be high.

[shermanator]

.

Edited September 20 by shermanator

[Mihairokov]

16 minutes ago, Kingston said:

I don't expect they have multiple parties for a given market.  I do believe they've been contacted by people from a number of different markets.  It would not surprise me, however, if a lot of those weren't serious.  For example, I've seen a few reports of cities where some city councilor is in favour of building a stadium and so they mention the idea of a CPL club.  If that person contacts the league, they might be an "interested party" even though they'll never own a team.

If you're selling your car for $10K and I come up and say i'm willing to pay $2K i'm still an interested party, even if it's not anywhere near your ask. It's always better for the league to say "we have tons of interested parties" as opposed to saying "we haven't heard from anyone", even if it's an exaggeration.

 

17 minutes ago, Kingston said:

I agree that stadiums are probably the biggest hurdle.  This is also what makes me wonder why the league is apparently so determined that any expansion team has to have an ideal stadium.  I mean, I get the idea but if it is setting the bar so high that no one applies, then it's self-defeating.

I wonder how much of an issue Halifax is in regards to not really having proper facilities. I'm sure they don't want to become a league with multiple of this venue, even if it mostly works from a fan perspective.

 

6 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

The league has expanded twice and had to take over owning teams twice (one of which they folded). The value on the teams can't be high.

The Prince George CHL team is asking $8M, for reference. Our best friend Westhead estimates that CHL franchise values are beyond $60M in major metros and an average of $6M in markets of ~100,000. If we assume some of this valuation is based on revenues in a season then we can come to an estimate of CPL teams based on annual revenues, ignoring other factors like potential transfer fees and, erm, paying salaries to players.

[Kingston]

33 minutes ago, Mihairokov said:

I wonder how much of an issue Halifax is in regards to not really having proper facilities. I'm sure they don't want to become a league with multiple of this venue, even if it mostly works from a fan perspective.

Having attended a game in Halifax with a sell out crowd, I can say not a big issue.  It isn't classy - beer is sold from a shed-type kiosk and the bathrooms are porta potties - but it works fine.  If the league is holding back teams who are offering Wanderers' Stadium type venues then they're being too picky.

Also, IIRC, beer was $17 as compared to $5 at the NSLC so they're clearing about $12 per tall boy.  Observationally, they sold at least one can for each of the 6500 people present.  Which means that Halifax comes pretty close to covering their entire player payroll on beer sales alone.

41 minutes ago, Mihairokov said:

The Prince George CHL team is asking $8M, for reference. Our best friend Westhead estimates that CHL franchise values are beyond $60M in major metros and an average of $6M in markets of ~100,000. If we assume some of this valuation is based on revenues in a season then we can come to an estimate of CPL teams based on annual revenues, ignoring other factors like potential transfer fees and, erm, paying salaries to players.

There's also the huge differential of comparing hockey to soccer in Canada.  I wouldn't go to England and try to evaluate a minor pro hockey team based on the value of local minor pro soccer teams.  I can easily believe a CHL team is worth more than a CPL team. 

[SpursFlu]

44 minutes ago, Mihairokov said:

If you're selling your car for $10K and I come up and say i'm willing to pay $2K i'm still an interested party, even if it's not anywhere near your ask. It's always better for the league to say "we have tons of interested parties" as opposed to saying "we haven't heard from anyone", even if it's an exaggeration.

 

I wonder how much of an issue Halifax is in regards to not really having proper facilities. I'm sure they don't want to become a league with multiple of this venue, even if it mostly works from a fan perspective.

 

The Prince George CHL team is asking $8M, for reference. Our best friend Westhead estimates that CHL franchise values are beyond $60M in major metros and an average of $6M in markets of ~100,000. If we assume some of this valuation is based on revenues in a season then we can come to an estimate of CPL teams based on annual revenues, ignoring other factors like potential transfer fees and, erm, paying salaries to players.

The Prince George situation is interesting because Aquilini is buying it to leverage a deal with the city of Chilliwack to also purchase their arena and move the team to Chilliwack. So again you're buying something for 8 million (what's 8 million to Aquillini?) So you have an asset that can facilitate a major real estate deal. It was similar inhad heard in a similar negotiation to bring the Canucks to Abbotsford Aquillini wanted the arena and a city owned golf course. That fell thru but they did eventually move there and it's by all accounts doing pretty good

[Bison44]

5 minutes ago, Kingston said:

Having attended a game in Halifax with a sell out crowd, I can say not a big issue.  It isn't classy - beer is sold from a shed-type kiosk and the bathrooms are porta potties - but it works fine.  If the league is holding back teams who are offering Wanderers' Stadium type venues then they're being too picky.

Also, IIRC, beer was $17 as compared to $5 at the NSLC so they're clearing about $12 per tall boy.  Observationally, they sold at least one can for each of the 6500 people present.  Which means that Halifax comes pretty close to covering their entire player payroll on beer sales alone.

 

Would the team control the beer sales and make the profit??  

[Kingston]

1 minute ago, Bison44 said:

Would the team control the beer sales and make the profit??  

I hope so?

[Mihairokov]

14 minutes ago, Kingston said:

Having attended a game in Halifax with a sell out crowd, I can say not a big issue.  It isn't classy - beer is sold from a shed-type kiosk and the bathrooms are porta potties - but it works fine.  If the league is holding back teams who are offering Wanderers' Stadium type venues then they're being too picky.

I was more referencing that there are no permanent washroom facilities and that teams use shipping containers for dressing rooms.

 

15 minutes ago, Kingston said:

There's also the huge differential of comparing hockey to soccer in Canada.  I wouldn't go to England and try to evaluate a minor pro hockey team based on the value of local minor pro soccer teams.  I can easily believe a CHL team is worth more than a CPL team. 

Which is why I was just using it as a reference. Soccer will always be behind hockey with this sort of mindset. At some point they'll become equivalent from an investment standpoint, especially considering that some markets do not work for CHL teams and some teams bounce around markets every few years.

 

10 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

The Prince George situation is interesting because Aquilini is buying it to leverage a deal with the city of Chilliwack to also purchase their arena and move the team to Chilliwack. So again you're buying something for 8 million (what's 8 million to Aquillini?) So you have an asset that can facilitate a major real estate deal. It was similar inhad heard in a similar negotiation to bring the Canucks to Abbotsford Aquillini wanted the arena and a city owned golf course. That fell thru but they did eventually move there and it's by all accounts doing pretty good

This mostly just highlights that arenas are better real estate investments than stadiums because they can host multiple tenants throughout the year as well as various concerts, tradeshows, etc., as well as fitting neatly into most city grids.

[SpursFlu]

37 minutes ago, Mihairokov said:

I was more referencing that there are no permanent washroom facilities and that teams use shipping containers for dressing rooms.

 

Which is why I was just using it as a reference. Soccer will always be behind hockey with this sort of mindset. At some point they'll become equivalent from an investment standpoint, especially considering that some markets do not work for CHL teams and some teams bounce around markets every few years.

 

This mostly just highlights that arenas are better real estate investments than stadiums because they can host multiple tenants throughout the year as well as various concerts, tradeshows, etc., as well as fitting neatly into most city grids.

Do we even have privately owned Stadiums in Canada?

There is actually an interesting situation in the Lower Mainland right now. Surrey has applied to become designated as an independent city(or whatever the technicality is)so it basically doesn't have go to the Province and Vancouver to get permission on all their development decisions. It's expected the Province will say no so I'm expecting it to become an election issue. Surprised the Conservatives haven't jumped on it since Surrey is expected to decide the election. This would really open up Surrey as a stadium option for just about whatever you can imagine. Because I can guarantee you with our un Canadian climate, if you made a stadium in DT Surrey and book ended it with a little shopping, entertainment area, maybe a tower. He'll yah it would be an amazing money making investment 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7317197

Edited September 20 by SpursFlu

[shermanator]

Yes. Atco Field is privately owned. 

[Kingston]

3 minutes ago, shermanator said:

Yes. Atco Field is privately owned. 

Also both Skydome (I refuse to acknowledge any other name) and the Scotiabank Arena in Toronto are privately owned.

In the CPL, there are also Tim Horton's Field and Princess Auto Stadium.

Edited September 20 by Kingston

[SpursFlu]

13 minutes ago, Kingston said:

Also both Skydome (I refuse to acknowledge any other name) and the Scotiabank Arena in Toronto are privately owned.

In the CPL, there are also Tim Horton's Field and Princess Auto Stadium.

Not arenas just stadiums. I appreciate the names, I know there are some but I'm just pointing out there are very few and I think there should be more

Edited September 20 by SpursFlu

[MtlMario]

On 9/19/2024 at 10:14 AM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

^^^even after this has all been very carefully explained he still wants to potentially deny a fellow Canadian the opportunity to play pro soccer in Canada in the CanPL in a manner that would directly contravene Canadian employment legislation.

Can you imagine the extent people on here would be seething if the HNS in Croatia had suddenly decided that Niko Sigur was no longer eligible to play for Hajduk Split in their domestic league structure because he had the temerity to opt to play for the CMNT instead of their national team?

Dual nationals have the right to make these decisions without having demented nationalists taking retaliatory action against them. In Jay Herdman's case I suspect it was no more complicated than wanting to get out from under his father's shadow and not have people whispering that he was only being selected for nepotistic reasons.   

First of all I never said a dual cannot play in the CPL and second of all if anyone is demented here it's not me but you as you should be able to tell with your 4 likes that you received in IDK how many years you are on here (with all your different names). Fyi if you go to a mental hospital all the patients there will say they are not crazy but everyone else is. This is the last time I WASTE my time with you.

[CDNFootballer]

6 hours ago, Kingston said:

Especially when the league also apparently wants new ownership groups to come up with a next to ideal stadium before letting them in.

We don't know fully about the stadium requirements, but looking at what expansion club Vancouver FC was approved with shows that its not unrealistically high imo. Vancouver's stadium is a 6200 seater (using metal scaffolding type grandstands) with port o potties for washrooms, and food trucks and one concession building. Nothing too fancy there. I suspect a 5k minimum setup in similar design would be sufficient.

Hard part is finding the municipality/city that will play ball and provide the field plus $$.

Edited September 21 by CDNFootballer

[Kingston]

26 minutes ago, CDNFootballer said:

We don't know fully about the stadium requirements, but looking at what expansion club Vancouver FC was approved with shows that its not unrealistically high imo. Vancouver's stadium is a 6200 seater (using metal scaffolding type grandstands) with port o potties for washrooms, and food trucks and one concession building. Nothing too fancy there. I suspect a 5k minimum setup in similar design would be sufficient.

Hard part is finding the municipality/city that will play ball and provide the field plus $$.

The issue, I think, is that most CPL size cities don’t have that type of space available in a reasonable location.  And most already have some sort of stadium.  So if the CPL will not let them use the existing stadium, it can be a challenge to do what Vancouver did.
 

[narduch]

This reminds me, whatever happened to that Barrie stadium announcement.

Also it's interesting that public money will be used to build a new stadium for the NHL Ottawa team

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

14 hours ago, Kingston said:

... Which means that Halifax comes pretty close to covering their entire player payroll on beer sales alone...

Not a safe assumption given it's municipal land that is involved. Would be interesting to find out who controls that revenue stream though and what the terms of the rental agreement are on that.

[BearcatSA]

On 9/19/2024 at 2:02 PM, Unnamed Trialist said:

Noonan has basically flat lined for months, there is virtually no positive advancement on any front. 

Even that CPL match on Mother's Day in Kelowna was announced out of nowhere, very spur of the moment.  Contrast that with the CFL game in Victoria, which was announced just after the end of last season in November.

 

 

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, BearcatSA said:

Even that CPL match on Mother's Day in Kelowna was announced out of nowhere, very spur of the moment.  Contrast that with the CFL game in Victoria, which was announced just after the end of last season in November.

 

 

I don't think most of us even disagree with a neutral site game, to keep exposing new markets to the product and drum up interest. It's just the way it was handled. Very amateur.

[SoccMan]

When it comes to expansion the only thing they should really be adamant about is no football lines . The second one for me is staying away from the big CFL type stadiums you have in Hamilton, Ottawa and Winnipeg if possible. The university stadiums in places like Kitchener, London and I think in Quebec City are good enough for me as long as there are no permanent football lines . I really can’t see the CPL saying no to serious investors who want to put teams in these type of cities if these were the stadiums they want to play in . We might not have the perfect stadiums but with a bit of creativity there are stadiums you can put teams in .