CPL General

[Shway]

Few things….

It will take a lonnnggg time for the pay-to-play structure changes, as we know the CSA revenue is directly related to it.

I think an idea for the CPL teams is to purchase a local club, so that they already have the infrastructure required rather than starting from “nothing”. 

Reality is L1O teams are typically funded by the clubs younger teams who are pay-to-play, and that’s how you offset the costs.

I’m strongly against our professional footy system being intertwined with the US, however I don’t mind the professional academies being there. I think having CPL academies play in MLS Next Pro, and have a Canadian Youth Championship with only the professional pathway clubs.

Ultimately we need more professional academies than we do now.  TFC, Caps, and Montreal have wayyyy to much control over the markets and it’s easy for guys to be overlooked or slip through the cracks.

[Ansem]

4 hours ago, RS said:

You're literally only excluding one team from your list, so you're not exactly being cryptic.

Wasn't sure if Windsor TFC counted 

[Aird25]

Oops

Edited December 12, 2022 by Aird25
Quoted the wrong comment

[Aird25]

13 hours ago, Shway said:

I think an idea for the CPL teams is to purchase a local club, so that they already have the infrastructure required rather than starting from “nothing”

Haven't many of CPL clubs already done this, or at least have an affiliation with existing youth teams (VI Wave, Foothills, Sigma etc.)?

This doesn't change the fact that MLS clubs generally still manage to poach kids that show talent from youth clubs in their regions. The Whitecaps players on the U17 were from Coastal FC, Mountain FC, Coquitlam MF, and Comox/VI Wave before moving to Whitecaps. The MLS academies will continue to have this draw as long as National teams continue to select primarily from these academies, and they continue to compete in what's seen as a higher level. There's no doubt playing for an MLS academy currently helps a young players prospects of a pro career, but the question from a National perspective is whether filtering a few kids that show promise at a young age to a few teams, is better than broadening the base, as UT described it.

[Kingston]

7 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

There's no doubt playing for an MLS academy currently helps a young players prospects of a pro career, but the question from a National perspective is whether filtering a few kids that show promise at a young age to a few teams, is better than broadening the base, as UT described it.

The play in MLS is at a higher level than the CPL so, if a youngster can go there and play, then it's better from the national perspective, as you call it.  That said, the three MLS systems will miss a lot of people, even some of the best ones.  Frankly, even if their entire rosters were devoted to nothing but young Canadians, there still wouldn't be enough room to fit everyone.  So we definitely need a broader base as well.

[Aird25]

6 minutes ago, Kingston said:

The play in MLS is at a higher level than the CPL so, if a youngster can go there and play, then it's better from the national perspective, as you call it.  That said, the three MLS systems will miss a lot of people, even some of the best ones.  Frankly, even if their entire rosters were devoted to nothing but young Canadians, there still wouldn't be enough room to fit everyone.  So we definitely need a broader base as well.

I was speaking about academies and development. The vast majority of players in MLS academies won't come close to playing in MLS, and many won't make CPL either

[Shway]

1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

Haven't many of CPL clubs already done this, or at least have an affiliation with existing youth teams (VI Wave, Foothills, Sigma etc.)?

This doesn't change the fact that MLS clubs generally still manage to poach kids that show talent from youth clubs in their regions. The Whitecaps players on the U17 were from Coastal FC, Mountain FC, Coquitlam MF, and Comox/VI Wave before moving to Whitecaps. The MLS academies will continue to have this draw as long as National teams continue to select primarily from these academies, and they continue to compete in what's seen as a higher level. There's no doubt playing for an MLS academy currently helps a young players prospects of a pro career, but the question from a National perspective is whether filtering a few kids that show promise at a young age to a few teams, is better than broadening the base, as UT described it.

No they haven't.
Being affiliated, and having the full branding is two different things IMO.

CPL teams need to be in the position to "poach" those kids for the their U17, & U19 teams where costs are offset from the other academy/competitive & recreational teams that they have from ages 6-18. 

[Aird25]

49 minutes ago, Shway said:

No they haven't.
Being affiliated, and having the full branding is two different things IMO.

CPL teams need to be in the position to "poach" those kids for the their U17, & U19 teams where costs are offset from the other academy/competitive & recreational teams that they have from ages 6-18. 

I could be wrong, but I thought the Powered by Pacific Football Club program (VI Wave, Trident Development etc.) has done pretty much that with programs from U8 to U18, and the older ages competing in the BCSPL

 https://pacificfc.canpl.ca/article/pacific-football-club-takes-leadership-of-vancouver-island-wave-soccer

[Shway]

7 hours ago, Aird25 said:

I could be wrong, but I thought the Powered by Pacific Football Club program (VI Wave, Trident Development etc.) has done pretty much that with programs from U8 to U18, and the older ages competing in the BCSPL

 https://pacificfc.canpl.ca/article/pacific-football-club-takes-leadership-of-vancouver-island-wave-soccer

You are right. Didn’t know they had this…but it’s still branded different like some MLS 2 teams. Maybe it’s going to be a slow transition 🤷🏿‍♂️. 

https://poweredbypacificfc.ca/.

[Aird25]

11 hours ago, Shway said:

You are right. Didn’t know they had this…but it’s still branded different like some MLS 2 teams. Maybe it’s going to be a slow transition 🤷🏿‍♂️. 

https://poweredbypacificfc.ca/.

They’ve already rebranded since taking over to be very much in-line with Pacific’s secondary badge. They likely kept the name because it works and has a reputation in the province. They also hired Merriman’s brother and past and present Pacific players as coaches. They even state that VI Wave is the player development support for Pacific FC. 

[Shway]

2 hours ago, Aird25 said:

They’ve already rebranded since taking over to be very much in-line with Pacific’s secondary badge. They likely kept the name because it works and has a reputation in the province. They also hired Merriman’s brother and past and present Pacific players as coaches. They even state that VI Wave is the player development support for Pacific FC. 

I'm splitting hairs here....but 

and this

is different enough to avoid copyright infringements. 

[Aird25]

1 hour ago, Shway said:

I'm splitting hairs here....but 

and this

is different enough to avoid copyright infringements. 

In truth, I don't really get what your point is any more. To me, it's very clear that Pacific are running youth teams, camps, tournaments etc. They have a very nice, new training facility that's well used by all ages, as well as the senior team. If you're just spinning this to demonstrate that they (and the rest of CPL) are not doing anything for youth development, I don't agree.

[Ansem]

If I may, I recall the article from Soccer Quebec which interviewed the president of Soccer Quebec. He said that his goal was to see PLSQ as "truly" a professional league and only clubs with the minimum requirements could be part of it*

*That was during the pandemic when he said a merger with L10 was planned --> he must have been referring to today's version of League 1 Canada.

The pro status was important to him because he

• Acknowledge better facilities were needed
• Recognized the level of play could be higher and aim at getting loans from CF Montreal and other pro clubs
• Said the fiscal and business side of clubs needed to be upgraded

The upgrade of status would have huge implications on players status and contracts. From my understanding, York United paid Blainville for Abzi but they weren't obligated to do so. There seem to be a legal vacuum in that area (I'm not sure if that's everywhere).

I could see why CSB/CPL would have an interest in turning League 1 Canada into their own "CHL". CSB can own those leagues and invest some of their revenues in upgrading that tier. I think "sixfivestadium" will play a role in providing proper facilities**

**L1BC operational manual prior to launch made references to club needed to have facilities capable of hosting MLS/CPL clubs and broadcasts - something Blainville couldn't do when York9 were the visitors (They played in Laval instead)

League 1 Canada being owned by CSB and other League 1s looking to fall under them, this could put them in a position where CSB gets a return on any players who have competed under their umbrella. If that's the plan - it's an intriguing approach worth trying while it doesn't prevent CPL clubs from having academies in the youth systems.

[Kent]

I don't really know what we are talking about anymore, but Ozzie posted the U-17 roster and seemed to be saying it reinforces JDG's point that MLS teams have to do all the development for the national team because almost all the players on that roster were from MLS academies.

It seems to me MLS academies are relied on for scouting players for the youth national teams. But does anybody know how many players that were on our World Cup roster had played for the Canadian U17 program? Only 2. Sam Piette and Jonathan David. Correct me if I am wrong, I was just using Wikipedia to check this. So the Canadian U17 program is only slightly more likely to play a role in the development of a CMNT World Cup player than the Scottish youth program (all ages) or just as likely as the Portuguese youth program (all ages).

And for what it's worth, I'd prefer the MLS youth teams to be playing in their local leagues. The stat I just stated above tells me that MLS youth coaches don't have magic wands that creates better players than the local leagues. If their superior coaching was a real thing, and if the American leagues they played in also were superior for player development, you would expect more of these players that were apparently the best in the country at the age of 16 and with all these development advantages they would be way ahead of the guys that eventually play for the men's team. For me, I think playing in the local leagues can help the MLS teams with their own scouting, and if the CSA is relying on their scouting it would help our youth national teams as well. And if it's true that MLS academy teams are better than teams in the top local leagues and if it's true that playing against better competition creates better development, then their existence in the top local leagues could maybe, just maybe do a little bit to help raise the level of those local leagues.

[Kingston]

8 hours ago, Kent said:

And for what it's worth, I'd prefer the MLS youth teams to be playing in their local leagues. The stat I just stated above tells me that MLS youth coaches don't have magic wands that creates better players than the local leagues. If their superior coaching was a real thing, and if the American leagues they played in also were superior for player development, you would expect more of these players that were apparently the best in the country at the age of 16 and with all these development advantages they would be way ahead of the guys that eventually play for the men's team. For me, I think playing in the local leagues can help the MLS teams with their own scouting, and if the CSA is relying on their scouting it would help our youth national teams as well. And if it's true that MLS academy teams are better than teams in the top local leagues and if it's true that playing against better competition creates better development, then their existence in the top local leagues could maybe, just maybe do a little bit to help raise the level of those local leagues.

My personal preference would also be for them to play in their local league and you give some good reasons why.  That said, as an NT fan, I should be agnostic about it and prefer whatever makes for the best development of young players.

One problem the MLS academy teams have had is finding a steady, high quality league to play in.  For example, this is the league history of the TFC Academy team:  CSL, OSL, L1O, PDL, L1O, PDL, L1O, USSDA (covid years), L1O summer league, MLS Next.

Whether it is the best choice for the Canadian MLS teams is something we could discuss, but providing high quality youth training is what MLS is trying to do with MSL Next.  If that ultimately helps our NT, then good.

[MM3/MM2/MM]

Northern Tribune has created an excellent roster tracker for all CPL teams, better then the CPL website, they used to a good job.      https://northerntribune.ca/2023-cpl-roster-tracker/

[EnigMattic1]

2 hours ago, MM3/MM2/MM said:

Northern Tribune has created an excellent roster tracker for all CPL teams, better then the CPL website, they used to a good job.      https://northerntribune.ca/2023-cpl-roster-tracker/

What exactly does "draft rights retained" mean?

[Kent]

6 hours ago, Kingston said:

My personal preference would also be for them to play in their local league and you give some good reasons why.  That said, as an NT fan, I should be agnostic about it and prefer whatever makes for the best development of young players.

One problem the MLS academy teams have had is finding a steady, high quality league to play in.  For example, this is the league history of the TFC Academy team:  CSL, OSL, L1O, PDL, L1O, PDL, L1O, USSDA (covid years), L1O summer league, MLS Next.

Whether it is the best choice for the Canadian MLS teams is something we could discuss, but providing high quality youth training is what MLS is trying to do with MSL Next.  If that ultimately helps our NT, then good.

I should mention that I was mostly thinking of the youth levels, rather than the top level academy teams. I might be mistaken but I think TFC's young teams (like U15 and younger) are playing in American leagues. Does MLS Next have youth divisions? I personally think it would be better for everybody if TFC had their teams play in OPDL. But I have to say, my opinions are all just my own view from afar. I am not involved in any of these leagues, so I could be way off base.

[MM3/MM2/MM]

2 hours ago, EnigMattic1 said:

What exactly does "draft rights retained" mean?

They were drafted and played with the team last year and have reached an agreement to return for 2023.

[Kingston]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

I should mention that I was mostly thinking of the youth levels, rather than the top level academy teams. I might be mistaken but I think TFC's young teams (like U15 and younger) are playing in American leagues. Does MLS Next have youth divisions? I personally think it would be better for everybody if TFC had their teams play in OPDL. But I have to say, my opinions are all just my own view from afar. I am not involved in any of these leagues, so I could be way off base.

I'm not sure where TFC's younger ages play.

I had to look it up, but it looks like MLS Next goes down to U13 with some sort of championship tournament for U15 and up.

[Unnamed Trialist]

On 12/12/2022 at 5:25 PM, Aird25 said:

Haven't many of CPL clubs already done this, or at least have an affiliation with existing youth teams (VI Wave, Foothills, Sigma etc.)?

This doesn't change the fact that MLS clubs generally still manage to poach kids that show talent from youth clubs in their regions. The Whitecaps players on the U17 were from Coastal FC, Mountain FC, Coquitlam MF, and Comox/VI Wave before moving to Whitecaps. The MLS academies will continue to have this draw as long as National teams continue to select primarily from these academies, and they continue to compete in what's seen as a higher level. There's no doubt playing for an MLS academy currently helps a young players prospects of a pro career, but the question from a National perspective is whether filtering a few kids that show promise at a young age to a few teams, is better than broadening the base, as UT described it.

Thanks for the shout out....I'd love to see the u-15s poached from the local academies play them regularly and get showed up every now and then. This is what we need: the TFC or Caps coaches saying shit, that CB we ignored is as good as the one we got. 

But they don't tell anything to the CSA coach who calls up the lesser CB because he's in an MLS Academy. Then we bitch because our youth NTs underperform.

Keep lathering on the irony.

[Ansem]

Partnership with TikTok

 

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Ansem

[MM3/MM2/MM]

Not knowledgeable on TikTok (gives away my age?)is this good, average or great partnership for the league

[SpursFlu]

13 minutes ago, MM3/MM2/MM said:

Not knowledgeable on TikTok (gives away my age?)is this good, average or great partnership for the league

If the Liberals lose the next election it likely won't exist in Canada anyways. It will be banned in the US pretty soon. Not a smart move by the CSA but they no doubt got good money from this

Edited December 20, 2022 by SpursFlu

[youllneverwalkalone]

I'm surprised we (the West) haven't Alibaba'd Tik Tok. Let's workshop some names. Go!