Zorhan Bassong

[InglewoodJack]

17 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I’m with you on that.  Rather shocked that Heiberts in the squad. I do not rate him enough to ever play him in copa 

Same. Marsch brought him up in his first press conference. Wonder if as he was getting familiar with our talent pool, he saw a few clips of him doing good stuff- I know STL have some Bundesliga connections, so he may have seen something, called him up, played him and realized ah crap, he’s not actually that good. 

[SthMelbRed]

3 hours ago, El Diego said:

Not violent conduct?

It could be either, to be fair. The decision would turn on whether or not the referee deemed the offence to have occurred in play, or not. So, basically, if the player who took the ball in the face was standing on the pitch, it's Serious Foul Play. If he's standing off the pitch, it's Violent Conduct. At least that's my interpretation. Either way, it's a red card.

[Obinna]

50 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I’m with you on that.  Rather shocked that Heiberts in the squad. I do not rate him enough to ever play him in copa 

Semantics perhaps, but I would say somewhat surprised, not shocked. Writing was on the wall when he was selected for the friendlies ahead of this tournament. I'll add that given Marsch's comments about Heibert and the way his club plays, we were already tipped off that he could make the squad.

Now what I will say is that if we want to talk pure ability, then yes I would consider multiple players ahead of Heibert, including Edwards, but on the flipside I certainly won't argue with the results and where the team is at. Heibert no doubt is providing some kind of value, despite not seeing the field (yet), kind of like Piette but obviously for different reasons. 

[Obinna]

50 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I’m with you on that.  Rather shocked that Heiberts in the squad. I do not rate him enough to ever play him in copa 

Semantics perhaps, but I would say I am somewhat surprised, not shocked. The writing was on the wall when he was selected for the friendlies ahead of this tournament.

I'll add that given Marsch's comments about Heibert and the way his club plays, we were already tipped off that he could make the squad.

Now what I will say is that if we want to talk pure ability, then yes I would consider multiple players ahead of Heibert, including Edwards, but on the flipside I certainly won't argue with the results and where the team is at. Heibert no doubt is providing some kind of value, despite not seeing the field (yet), kind of like Piette but obviously for different reasons. 

[Obinna]

50 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I’m with you on that.  Rather shocked that Heiberts in the squad. I do not rate him enough to ever play him in copa 

Semantics perhaps, but I would say I am somewhat surprised, not shocked. The writing was on the wall when he was selected for the friendlies ahead of this tournament.

I'll add that given Marsch's comments about Heibert and the way his club plays, we were already tipped off that he could make the squad.

Now what I will say is that if we want to talk pure ability, then yes I would consider multiple players ahead of Heibert, including Edwards, but on the flipside I certainly won't argue with the results and where the team is at. Heibert no doubt is providing some kind of value, despite not seeing the field (yet), kind of like Piette but obviously for different reasons. 

[Corazon]

14 hours ago, Bigandy said:

agreed
1. Davies

2. adekugbe

3. laryea

4. hiebert

5. edwards

6. Abzi 

7. Petrasso

8….?  
 

we don’t really have 10 left backs playing at a high enough level…. Of course an mls guy is in the top 10. 

I’d drop Hiebert because although he’s positionally flexible he’s really not a LB.  I’d slot Bassong ahead of Abzi tbh.

Laryea naturally is RB although I’d by far rather have him start at LB aside from anyone not named Davies.  But if we’re talking natural LB’s 

1) Davies

2) Adekugbe

3) Edwards

4) Bassong

And honestly I’m not sold on Adekugbe being able to compete at this level much longer.  I always considered him one of our most underrated players in the program but I am a bit worried his time is coming to an end, sadly.  I hope I’m wrong but that's not a lot of depth at LB.  At least playing consistently at a high level.

 

 

Edited July 9 by Corazon

[Bigandy]

16 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Semantics perhaps, but I would say I am somewhat surprised, not shocked. The writing was on the wall when he was selected for the friendlies ahead of this tournament.

I'll add that given Marsch's comments about Heibert and the way his club plays, we were already tipped off that he could make the squad.

Now what I will say is that if we want to talk pure ability, then yes I would consider multiple players ahead of Heibert, including Edwards, but on the flipside I certainly won't argue with the results and where the team is at. Heibert no doubt is providing some kind of value, despite not seeing the field (yet), kind of like Piette but obviously for different reasons. 

I’m shocked but not surprised.  The writing is on the wall but it’s wild to see him there nonetheless.

 

every player theoretically adds value but does he actually add much?   Piettes older and one of our most experienced. He understands the team culture and dynamics.  
 

what does hirbert contribute other than cover for lb with adekugbe injured. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

3 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

what does hirbert contribute other than cover for lb with adekugbe injured. 

- Cover for the centre backs. (That's where he mostly played this year)

And from Marsch's comment - familiarity with the Red Bull tactics.

Millar said something like that coming from a less direct source - He knew they defensive set up from the Liverpool academy (which came  from Klopp who took parts from Rangrick)

 

We were always going to have extras on a 26 even now 25 man roster. 

 

 

 

[Bigandy]

4 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

- Cover for the centre backs. (That's where he mostly played this year)

And from Marsch's comment - familiarity with the Red Bull tactics.

Millar said something like that coming from a less direct source - He knew they defensive set up from the Liverpool academy (which came  from Klopp who took parts from Rangrick)

 

We were always going to have extras on a 26 even now 25 man roster. 

 

 

 

I feel like theoretical benefits are not the same as realizable benefits. 
 

yes he is technically cb cover but he’s 6th (or lower if you think about aj etc playing there) in the depth chart of the current roster and waaay lower out of all options.  Not much benefit realistically.  
 

understanding the system was a big reason he was chosen but if he can’t play at a high enough level or read the play, then can he execute his tactical knowledge?  Not much benefit i see there. 
 

I know we are taking extras but he’s got on this roster by the lack of lb depth more so than his ability imo.  
 

the extras on Argentina like garnacho can offer stylistic differences while easily being at the copa standard.  Heibert isn’t at the standard so I don’t see much benefit from him.  

[jonovision]

8 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

the extras on Argentina like garnacho can offer stylistic differences while easily being at the copa standard.  Heibert isn’t at the standard so I don’t see much benefit from him.  

I largely agree but Canada doesn't have enough depth that the 26th guy is going to be anything other than an emergency player. Is there anyone that was left off the squad that is a potential difference-maker?

[narduch]

3 minutes ago, jonovision said:

I largely agree but Canada doesn't have enough depth that the 26th guy is going to be anything other than an emergency player. Is there anyone that was left off the squad that is a potential difference-maker?

Yup.

If you don't take Hiebert who else can you take at CB? Kennedy was possibly injured at the beginning of the window. Maybe McGraw? But at that point what's the difference?

[BearcatSA]

5 hours ago, Corazon said:

And honestly I’m not sold on Adekugbe being able to compete at this level much longer.  I always considered him one of our most underrated players in the program but I am a bit worried his time is coming to an end, sadly.  I hope I’m wrong but thats not a lot of depth at LB.  At least playing consistently at a high level.

He has taken over from Erik Godoy and Cristian Gutierrez as the Caps' anti-Ironman.  The most important ability for a player is availability and that's not happening for him right now.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

27 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

The extras on Argentina like garnacho can offer stylistic differences while easily being at the copa standard.  Heibert isn’t at the standard so I don’t see much benefit from him.  

A little oranges to apple comparison going on there.

First you want our 20-26th men (where I think most would see Hiebert falling) to be "at the standard" of the world champions?

Second, even that aside if we try centre back to centre back: Lucas Quarta (who was on the bench the whole game when my team won the Conference League against his Fiorentina) has had a pretty similar influence on this tournament as Hiebert.

The 7 minutes he had came late when Argentina were 2-0 up on Peru.  He came on for a centre back whose only minutes at the tournament were the other 83 that day.  Ie. They had some luxuries of resting people we did not. Thankfully neither of our teams have had serious injuries at that position. 

For his spot, they could have called someone like Paolo Dybala or Lucas Ocampos (who I have seen against my team in Europe) but they probably wanted cover at CB.

That's what happens especially in 26 man squad.

 

6th centre back is a bit of stretch as well. The starting 2, Miller,  if we want  Johnston, then it gets debatable. He was called before Waterman and LDF is here for experience and maybe super emergency right back cover. Hiebert is a depth piece that covers 2 positions - pretty standard for the last places on a roster. 

 

And if he not playing, it's not on the pitch his Red Bull knowledge is being used. Marsch has been explicit that we were/are trying to cram as much tactical learning into a month as possible and that's where training and maybe someone who already knows the expectations comes in.

[Bigandy]

8 hours ago, jonovision said:

I largely agree but Canada doesn't have enough depth that the 26th guy is going to be anything other than an emergency player. Is there anyone that was left off the squad that is a potential difference-maker?

For sure. And I totally agree we need an emergency lb cover. I just think Edward’s is a better choice than hiebert and neither really inspire any level of confidence. I’d say 18ish of our guys can compete at this level and do a job. Hiebert can’t. 

[Bigandy]

8 hours ago, narduch said:

Yup.

If you don't take Hiebert who else can you take at CB? Kennedy was possibly injured at the beginning of the window. Maybe McGraw? But at that point what's the difference?

We have 6 cbs on the squad. That’s very unusual and unbalanced. Kennedy, LM, and ZMG (maybe pos but I have no idea on his ability) are all better than Heibwet at cb. I’m convinced hiebert was not brought as cb depth. 

[narduch]

2 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

We have 6 cbs on the squad. That’s very unusual and unbalanced. Kennedy, LM, and ZMG (maybe pos but I have no idea on his ability) are all better than Heibwet at cb. I’m convinced hiebert was not brought as cb depth. 

He is here for both LB and CB depth. But basically the last man standing.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

48 minutes ago, narduch said:

He is here for both LB and CB depth. But basically the last man standing.

Last man is probably LDF to be fair. At least on merit. 

[Bigandy]

9 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

A little oranges to apple comparison going on there.

First you want our 20-26th men (where I think most would see Hiebert falling) to be "at the standard" of the world champions?

Second, even that aside if we try centre back to centre back: Lucas Quarta (who was on the bench the whole game when my team won the Conference League against his Fiorentina) has had a pretty similar influence on this tournament as Hiebert.

The 7 minutes he had came late when Argentina were 2-0 up on Peru.  He came on for a centre back whose only minutes at the tournament were the other 83 that day.  Ie. They had some luxuries of resting people we did not. Thankfully neither of our teams have had serious injuries at that position. 

For his spot, they could have called someone like Paolo Dybala or Lucas Ocampos (who I have seen against my team in Europe) but they probably wanted cover at CB.

That's what happens especially in 26 man squad.

 

6th centre back is a bit of stretch as well. The starting 2, Miller,  if we want  Johnston, then it gets debatable. He was called before Waterman and LDF is here for experience and maybe super emergency right back cover. Hiebert is a depth piece that covers 2 positions - pretty standard for the last places on a roster. 

 

And if he not playing, it's not on the pitch his Red Bull knowledge is being used. Marsch has been explicit that we were/are trying to cram as much tactical learning into a month as possible and that's where training and maybe someone who already knows the expectations comes in.

I agree with what your saying but it’s not quite the intent of my argument. 
 

there’s a standard to compete at copa that’s between hiebert and argentinas level. Somewhere near aj level.  Quarta is obviously at/above the copa standard. Hiebert is not. 
 

we obviously need emergency cover at lb. At cb we are well stocked with 5 plus heibert at cb.  I just wish our lb cover was better

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

4 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I agree with what your saying but it’s not quite the intent of my argument. 
 

there’s a standard to compete at copa that’s between hiebert and argentinas level. Somewhere near aj level.  Quarta is obviously at/above the copa standard. Hiebert is not. 
 

we obviously need emergency cover at lb. At cb we are well stocked with 5 plus heibert at cb.  I just wish our lb cover was better

Hiebert is ahead of LDF on any merit scale.  But the latter is also there for another reason and some versatilty.  

The comparison with Argentina was: at the bottom end of your CBs, those guys aren't making a huge contribution to winning the tournament on the field. So you might as well have another reason. 

Again if you look at their roster they have 5 CBs which is one less than us but have two dedicated leftbacks and two dedicated right backs.  We in theory have 1 and 2 but the 2 is first cover at right wing.  We need versatile defenders, so I think your last sentence alone should probably allay your concerns.