Unnamed Trialist Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 On 8/26/2024 at 12:57 PM, Kent said: You can only use that excuse for so long. 10 teams by 2020 as the original goal meant 10 teams by season 2. 2022, 23, and 24 have all been normal, non-pandemic seasons. We are still at 8 teams without even an announcement for a new team with a start date set yet. I was always skeptical about the stated expansion plans and thought it probably wasn't the best idea to publicly call out numbers like that. I get the impression that they say things like that to kind of will it into existence. People are underestimating the greedy short-sightedness of the current owners. Lower the fee and terms and get more teams in, that raises the value. Because the current league is maybe even negative value and should not be costly to join. Kent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said: People are underestimating the greedy short-sightedness of the current owners. Lower the fee and terms and get more teams in, that raises the value. Because the current league is maybe even negative value and should not be costly to join. I really wish they would accept investment into the stadium towards any expansion fee they are charging. So if they are charging a 5 million expansion fee, instead of paying that to the league they can invest that towards stadium building or renovation. It shows they are serious about their investment, it builds infrastructure for the league, and it helps grow the existing team's league as well. Do they really need to also have a few 100k for each team? vancanman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingston Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 9 hours ago, Kent said: I really wish they would accept investment into the stadium towards any expansion fee they are charging. Not a bad idea but it might be a hard thing to sell to the existing ownership groups. I seem to recall that Halifax spent something like $3 or $4 million on their temporary stadium. A permanent stadium could easily run to more than any reasonable CPL expansion fee. So your idea could realistically amount to "build some sort of stadium and we'll let you in for free". That might not be appealing to the existing owners, especially if they had to put up some cash up front in addition to securing their own stadiums when the league started. They probably (justifiably) feel they deserve at least some sort of return for being the ones to take the risk and get the league off the ground. Ivan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihairokov Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 And this would seemingly be outside the scope of: does the team own the stadium they're playing in? does the team own the land the stadium is on? Things are a lot complicated for teams if the answer is no to either question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 On 8/26/2024 at 2:57 PM, Kent said: You can only use that excuse for so long. 10 teams by 2020 as the original goal meant 10 teams by season 2. 2022, 23, and 24 have all been normal, non-pandemic seasons. We are still at 8 teams without even an announcement for a new team with a start date set yet. I was always skeptical about the stated expansion plans and thought it probably wasn't the best idea to publicly call out numbers like that. I get the impression that they say things like that to kind of will it into existence. Oh to be sure, they were being ambitious but I'd respectfully suggest there hasn't been anything such as a normal post pandemic year. The dates on the calendar have changed but we are not back to the ways things were in 2019 or previously. No, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpursFlu Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 I dont think the issue is money or anything else like that. The only obstacle plain and simple is a place to play. We just don't have the facilities and building one is a herculean task in Canada. Even if you can get people on your side or more importantly people off your back it takes so long to get a shovel in the ground johnyb, Soccerpro2 and Ivan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 2 hours ago, Cheeta said: Oh to be sure, they were being ambitious but I'd respectfully suggest there hasn't been anything such as a normal post pandemic year. The dates on the calendar have changed but we are not back to the ways things were in 2019 or previously. No, sir. Whatever you may be referring to as not normal is the new normal. There are no more restrictions on capacity at stadiums, who can go, etc. If there is anyone that is still scared to go to a game, that's because of their own issues, not because of things not being back to normal. For example, the NHL average attendance in the 2018-19 season (so the last pre-COVID season) was 17,377. The NHL average attendance last season was 17,434, and that was despite the Arizona Coyotes moving to a tiny arena between those two seasons. Kingston 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 6 hours ago, Kent said: Whatever you may be referring to as not normal is the new normal. There are no more restrictions on capacity at stadiums, who can go, etc. If there is anyone that is still scared to go to a game, that's because of their own issues, not because of things not being back to normal. For example, the NHL average attendance in the 2018-19 season (so the last pre-COVID season) was 17,377. The NHL average attendance last season was 17,434, and that was despite the Arizona Coyotes moving to a tiny arena between those two seasons. Exactly. The new normal is not the old normal. What could have been a reasonable (or not) business plan pre pandemic, for example aggressive CPL expansion, is no longer realistic in our post pandemic world. That in of itself doesn't mean it wasn't unreasonable expansion plan at that time. To add some to your example. I'm 1000% sure the Winnipeg Jets would love to return to the old pre-2020 normal where they had to cap season ticket sales in stead of the new normal where they find themselves reduced to discounted events nights in order to try (and fail) to get back to the attendance numbers which were part of the old normal. I'm sure Chipman and Thomson are glad to hear the overall NHL attendance numbers are doing so well. But they've certainly expressed concerns about revenue in the new normal. RJB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro2 Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 (edited) 19 hours ago, Cheeta said: Exactly. The new normal is not the old normal. What could have been a reasonable (or not) business plan pre pandemic, for example aggressive CPL expansion, is no longer realistic in our post pandemic world. That in of itself doesn't mean it wasn't unreasonable expansion plan at that time. To add some to your example. I'm 1000% sure the Winnipeg Jets would love to return to the old pre-2020 normal where they had to cap season ticket sales in stead of the new normal where they find themselves reduced to discounted events nights in order to try (and fail) to get back to the attendance numbers which were part of the old normal. I'm sure Chipman and Thomson are glad to hear the overall NHL attendance numbers are doing so well. But they've certainly expressed concerns about revenue in the new normal. I don't go to jets games, but I've read people are upset at how expensive it's gotten. Has the CPL gotten more expensive for tickets and concessions over the past few years in a similar manner? I've said to others before, I don't see how CPL expansion happens given the need of a stadium. It makes 0 financial sense to even acquire the land, let alone the outrageous construction costs, for a minor league sports team that draws 3-4k per game for 5-6 months per year. Obviously an owner would need some sort of sweet heart public land deal (if they can get it) and some cheap modular stadium (Vancouver FC). Edited August 29 by Soccerpro2 Kingston 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingston Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 12 hours ago, Cheeta said: Exactly. The new normal is not the old normal. What could have been a reasonable (or not) business plan pre pandemic, for example aggressive CPL expansion, is no longer realistic in our post pandemic world. That in of itself doesn't mean it wasn't unreasonable expansion plan at that time. To add some to your example. I'm 1000% sure the Winnipeg Jets would love to return to the old pre-2020 normal where they had to cap season ticket sales in stead of the new normal where they find themselves reduced to discounted events nights in order to try (and fail) to get back to the attendance numbers which were part of the old normal. I'm sure Chipman and Thomson are glad to hear the overall NHL attendance numbers are doing so well. But they've certainly expressed concerns about revenue in the new normal. That has nothing to do with a "post pandemic world". This is not some lingering covid thing. The example you give is just a normal market reaction in Winnipeg to higher ticket prices. No one considering a CPL expansion team should be thinking "but we had a pandemic a few years ago". Kent and CDNFootballer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtlMario Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 The problem I think is we have too many millionaires/billionaires who do not give a shit about soccer(Canadian). narduch and Kent 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 (edited) 5 hours ago, MtlMario said: The problem I think is we have too many millionaires/billionaires who do not give a shit about soccer(Canadian). And the ones that do are investing in teams outside of Canada instead of here. When you watch that Wrexham show you hear Ryan Reynolds talk about it being a money losing business too, so it's not that these investors are necessarily thinking they are making a good investment for their money by investing in other countries. Edited August 29 by Kent Wrong hear/here. Embarrassing. narduch and MtlMario 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingston Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 17 minutes ago, MtlMario said: The problem I think is we have too many millionaires/billionaires who do not give a shit about soccer(Canadian). Or, to flip it around, we don't have enough millionaires/billionaires who do care about Canadian soccer. We only need a dozen or so very wealthy owners to have a great CPL. Then a bunch more people who don't need to be as wealthy to provide anchor/flagship teams for our D3 leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 10 minutes ago, Kingston said: We only need a dozen or so very wealthy owners to have a great CPL. We already have a great CPL Mihairokov, Bbeto and K Edgar 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingston Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 8 minutes ago, Aird25 said: We already have a great CPL We have a functional CPL. In the billionaire scenario, I'm picturing twelve profitable teams in twelve purpose built stadiums with enough salary cap and ad budget to fill them with fans. Twelve billionaires would have the necessary starting capital to get there. That would be great. In the non-fantasy meantime, I do enjoy what we have. Kent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihairokov Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 1 hour ago, Kingston said: That has nothing to do with a "post pandemic world". This is not some lingering covid thing. The example you give is just a normal market reaction in Winnipeg to higher ticket prices. No one considering a CPL expansion team should be thinking "but we had a pandemic a few years ago". Indeed. The Jets aren't being punished by COVID, they're being punished by being priced out of the NHL - again. The local market can't keep up with price and value increasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmen Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 https://infotel.ca/newsitem/can-kelowna-support-a-professional-soccer-team-the-mayor-thinks-so/it106398 CDNFootballer, masster and Bbeto 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 On 9/6/2024 at 5:01 PM, Watchmen said: https://infotel.ca/newsitem/can-kelowna-support-a-professional-soccer-team-the-mayor-thinks-so/it106398 This part caught my eye, in a not so great way. The quote below is from the mayor. “The nice thing about soccer is that it starts in April and goes all the way through until the end of October, almost into early November. During those summer months when our community would be extremely busy with potentially other items, the games would be able to be scheduled in other communities,” he said. So is he thinking for 3 months of the season they will just move the team outside of Kelowna? nolando and ray 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmen Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 40 minutes ago, Kent said: This part caught my eye, in a not so great way. The quote below is from the mayor. “The nice thing about soccer is that it starts in April and goes all the way through until the end of October, almost into early November. During those summer months when our community would be extremely busy with potentially other items, the games would be able to be scheduled in other communities,” he said. So is he thinking for 3 months of the season they will just move the team outside of Kelowna? Yeah, that caught my eye too. "We want a team, but we hope they don't play at home during the summer. We're all too busy for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianjc Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 1 hour ago, Watchmen said: Yeah, that caught my eye too. "We want a team, but we hope they don't play at home during the summer. We're all too busy for it. Maybe it would be better for Kelowna to be part of L1BC??? CDNFootballer and Kingston 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingston Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 8 hours ago, brianjc said: Maybe it would be better for Kelowna to be part of L1BC??? That would be ideal. It could even, I suppose, be a precursor to a CPL team. Honestly, despite interest from the potential ownership group and a great one-time crowd, I think Kelowna is too small to support a CPL team long term. CDNFootballer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 11 hours ago, Kent said: This part caught my eye, in a not so great way. The quote below is from the mayor. “The nice thing about soccer is that it starts in April and goes all the way through until the end of October, almost into early November. During those summer months when our community would be extremely busy with potentially other items, the games would be able to be scheduled in other communities,” he said. So is he thinking for 3 months of the season they will just move the team outside of Kelowna? I wonder if he means moving a match to somewhere like Kamloops or Vernon or elsewhere? Weird all around, but confirming that the city and probably the potential owners have exactly the same kind of concerns that many do on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpursFlu Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 I think what he meant to say was that he believes that if they have a preference they can load their schedule to different times of the year. As an example Vancouver FC seem to have very few games in the fall and more in the summer. My experience is people in the Lower Mainland stay closer to home in the Summer so maybe that was a request. I would also think markets with weather challenges might ask for more games over certain periods rather than just say the start of the year. I noticed when I lived in the Okanagan locals definitely expected to get out of town more during the summer.. camping whatever etc. They often said they wanted to avoid all the Albertans coming to town lol but yah I think he's just referring to the "Gone Fishing" culture in the Okanagan and wanting to avoid that with the locals. I disagree with him but I think that's he was trying to express Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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